MH17 was shot by Ukrainian army. New evidences by Russian Defense Ministry

[OsteInmar]

Here is my "myth" based on ...

To be continued.

You can shove your myth into your ass and not go on.

 

[OsteInmar]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

Fighting to Communism was a crime!​

LOL!

Are you still sad that Reagan won the Cold War and freed Europe from Russian oppression?

How many will be 2 + 2 * 2?

 

[OsteInmar]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

Fighting to Communism was a crime!​

LOL!

Are you still sad that Reagan won the Cold War and freed Europe from Russian oppression?

What oppression?
Check the economy of Czech, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia now and while "under oppression". They have no industry now, their economy is fully dependent from west Europe and USA. They have no freedom to choose their own policy now.
So they are under American oppression now!

I remember the Bulgarian and Hungarian tomatoes. They supplied these products to the USSR, according to the Council of Economic Mutual Assistance.
The Hungarians were making buses ..
Now this is not
Bulgarians and Hungarians are forbidden to produce vegetables, as these vegetables are produced by France, Spain and Italy. The Hungarian bus plant is destroyed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

Fighting to Communism was a crime!​

LOL!

Are you still sad that Reagan won the Cold War and freed Europe from Russian oppression?

What oppression?
Check the economy of Czech, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia now and while "under oppression". They have no industry now, their economy is fully dependent from west Europe and USA. They have no freedom to choose their own policy now.
So they are under American oppression now!

What oppression?

Right.
They built the Berlin Wall to keep West Germans out.
You fucking moron.

 

[Eugene]

How many will be 2 + 2 * 2?

Remember my father asking me that when I was 8
And i gave the wrong answer..

 

[Eugene]

Here is my "myth" based on ...

To be continued.

You can shove your myth into your ass and not go on.

He is smart guy and he knows history but he likes to twist it to the "right" side, by not mentioning or ignoring some facts

But it is common sin for the whole USAEU in both historical and political matters

 

[Stratford57]

Russian soldiers took over administrative buildings, Ukrainian bases, airports and so on in Crimea. It isnt denied on official level in Russia now. There has been Russian military assistance to the rebels in the Eastern Ukraine. It is denied officially but recognised even on Russian forums. Call that invasion or not, but only insane will deny Russian involvement.

What you just described can’t be called “invasion” either. Would you be happier if Russians demounted military bases and sent their pieces to Ukraine? BTW, they offered Ukraine to take back their old submarines and ships. All the military men in Crimea have been provided with a free choice: to join Russian Army or to leave, some left but the vast majority took oath to Russian army.

Russia took what had belonged to her for ages: Ukraine entered USSR as a small piece of land and exited (in 1991) with whole bunch of Russian (as well as Polish) lands given to Ukrainian republic (within the USSR!) by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev. Anatoliy Sobchak was trying to make Ukraine exit with what she had while entering USSR but Yeltsyn was listening to Washington more that to voices of wisdom.

In fact, what you call “invasion” of Crimea was indeed the salvation. Ukrainian junta was preparing bloody fate for Crimea, sending “trains of friendship” full of hateful Nazis there. While you, Esay, have been waiting for “beautiful European future” of Ukraine, we’ve been living in ugly Nazi’s today there. Even in 2014 Nazis in balaclavas have been attacking our anti-junta demonstrations and police was protecting them from us (I’ve been witnessing that several times). Now they are attacking our churches, official buildings, concerts of “pro-Russian” singers, demonstrators, and so on and on.

‘Aidar’ and ‘Azov’ militants came to the church, and with their help schismatics in just a few minutes pushed representatives of Ukrainian Orthodox Church community out of the church, threatening them with weapons,” reported the press service of the Rovno diocese. The people were beaten by sticks and iron bars, “Molotov cocktails” were thrown at them, and they were pepper sprayed. In total about 400 people participated in the standoff. The parishioners who were inside the church decided not to leave it, being afraid of punishment and the building of the church being captured.
Ukrainian nationalists vandalize and set fire at Kiev monastery

a Group of nationalists broke into… in the synagogue at the tomb of Rabbi Nachman and shouting curses to the Jews, threw the room with pieces of pork and threw it in the room a pig’s head with engraved swastika.
The desecration of a synagogue in Uman: the Police has started proceedings under article “Hooliganism”



A crowd of 100 nationalist youths attacked a music venue in Kiev ahead of a performance by popular Ukrainian singer Ani Lorak. The mask-wearing attackers threw rocks and eggs, and used tear gas against concertgoers. A Russian journalist was also attacked.
Ukraine: Watch as crowd attacks Ani Lorak gig in Kiev

Pretty often they have torchlight processions just like German Nazis before WW2.


Also they burned the protesters alive in Odessa on May 2, 2014. None of them have been punished.
The Right Sector, Azov or Svoboda created parallel irregular forces that easily go out of control. In Odessa, in May 2014, they were responsible for a mass killing without facing any charges. 45 people burnt to death. A massacre that didn’t get much attention.

How come western democracies haven’t raised their voice in protest?

Most likely because these Ukrainian nationalist militias actually played a significant role in a much larger scale war. The Ukrainian revolution was strongly supported by the US diplomacy.

In the new cold war that opposes Russia to the USA, Ukraine is a decisive pawn. A tactical pawn to contain Putin’s ambitions.
Ukraine, masks of the revolutionSpecial Commendation Prix Europa – Berlin 2016

Ukrainian lawmakers beat each other in Ukrainian parliament:








And there are lots of other videos on the Internet fro those who care.
It’s a shame to live in such kind of country or to support it from abroad. Kiev officials still call Crimea “temporary occupied Ukrainian lands” but indeed all Ukraine is occupied [by Washington] land, and millions of us hope it’s really temporary and keep praying for that.

 

[Stratford57]

I dont think that the life standards dropped significantly. Yes, the price of utilitis has risen significantly, and other prices rose, but also rose wages. I can say for sure only about my family of course.

Let's see. During last 4 years in post-coup Ukraine the national currency depreciated more than 3 times and utilities raised 10 times. A monthly payment which is considered to be good in my area is $200 per month (it's usually delayed for 4 months at least!) and utilities are from $50 to $100 (depends on the amounts of rooms you have and the season). Ukraine buys Russian gas from Europe bragging about it but it costs her citizens quite a bit of additional money (sounds completely idiotic and crooked to me). Retirements monthly payments are about $100 (basically are good to pay utilities, not to eat or dress). Medicine became un-affordable under Kiev junta, vast majority of average Ukrainian citizens can't afford even to buy high blood pressure medicine, not to mention something more major. With such medical policy Kiev junta doesn't even need any war to kill the people. But this is going very well with their genocide program.

Azarov, the ex-PM of Ukraine: Those who were encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow “pro-Russian president and government” and to replace them with pro-European ones were promising to turn Ukraine into “another Switzerland or another France”. How has the situation in Ukraine changed since that?

- Ukraine is now in top ten in the list of the most poor countries in the world;
- Ukrainian state debt grew up to $77 billion dollars;
- Ukrainians’ income decreased significantly while some utilities increased 10 or more times;
- Civil war against her own population in Donbass on the top of everything. (During 4 years Ukrainian authorities were able to catch 11 (eleven!) Russian citizens in Donbass!)
- Population of Ukraine in 1991 when it separated from Russia was 52 million; before the 2016 coup it was 45 million and after 4 years it’s only 35 million. 30% of population went to Poland to work and 35% went to Russia to work (it’s very difficult and sometimes impossible to find a paid job in Ukraine).


Also Ukraine keeps borrowing money from IMF, even your grandkids, Esay, will have to keep paying that debt.

CEPS EU:
Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

NYT:
The scale of global kleptocracy has become so vast — by some accounts, more than one trillion dollars is stolen annually from developing countries — that it is almost impossible to imagine how the problem could ever be defeated.
Opinion | How Ukraine Is Fighting Corruption One Heart Stent at a Time



Post Soviet countries Statistics. Average monthly salaries in post-Soviet states in 2016:
Russia $549
Kazakhstan $418
Armenia $363
Belarus $361
Azerbaijan $313
Moldova $251
Kirghizia $212
Ukraine $203
Tajikistan $123

Top 4 countries on this list have formed custom union with Russia.

Basically, only crooks and those who work for them are paid well in Ukraine. BTW, where do you work, Esay, since you seem to be pleased with your life in Ukraine. Just curious.

 

[Stratford57]

All those disputes about Crimea look strange for me...

Yes, Russia had agreement for their troops to be there but sent new units in order to cool down the situation. And they were successful. No one was killed while disorder and collisions like it happened in Kiev, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Rovno, Lvov and many other cities of Ukraine those days.
After situation was under control, authorities of Crimea organized referendum and only after that Crimea became Russian according to people's will.

But USA is a side of the conflict in Ukraine so they got very upset about losing Crimea and initiated huge info war.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.
Yugoslavia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Iraq - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Lybia - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
Syria - no UN permission but there is American invasion.
And there are hundreds of such examples in 20th century.

And now let's compare to American actions abroad.

You left out....fought to free half of Europe from the Nazis 1941-45.
Fought to free the other half from the Commies 1945-91.

What?
You trade to Hitler until 1943! Via Spain or directly!
Half Europe? Ok, name please number of German soldiers killed by Americans, quantity of tanks and planes burnt...
Then compare to those by USSR!

Fighting to Communism was a crime!
The only reason you did it - you were afraid that all people all over the world would wish that progressive way of living.

Fighting to Communism was a crime!​

LOL!

Are you still sad that Reagan won the Cold War and freed Europe from Russian oppression?

What oppression?
Check the economy of Czech, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia now and while "under oppression". They have no industry now, their economy is fully dependent from west Europe and USA. They have no freedom to choose their own policy now.
So they are under American oppression now!

And add Greece too. EU killed all Greek agriculture and turned them into a divided and poor country. Once in a while I talk to a Greek woman, she is very sorry about the fate of her country within EU, but it's so difficult now to get out of the EU for Greece: they got in a trap.

 

[ESay]

There were several tribes in the ancient Rus which formed contemporary Russians, Ukrainians and Belirussians. Also, in forming Russian people significant role played Finnish tribes, in forming Ukrainians significant role played people of the Steppe. Various parts of Rus had its own history of forming and develompent. The unity of Rus is virtually a myth.

You wish to get historical argue here?
Ok, be so kind to inform us when there is 1st mentioning of such nations like Ukrainians and Belorussians.

Tribes you mentioned were joined in 9-10 century by Knyazes of Rurik dynasty. Ukrainians and Belorussians appeared in 20th century.
But a kind of separation of Rus' was in 13-14th century while Mongols invasion as they divided Rus' in 2 parts. One part got free of them in Moscow, another - on the west and was called Malorussia (small russia) and it tended to join main Russian lands. As a result Russia rejoined and by 20th century we got Russian Empire which included Poland and Finland.
Those 2 regions were very different from the rest of Russia so they separated from Russia in 1917.

Here is my "myth" based on official historical data.
Now I'm interested to see yours

Frankly not. The historical argue is pointless because everyone will stay with his own opinion. I will write my opinion and we will finish with that.

The ancient Rus state emerged in the 9 century with Rurik reigning in Novgorod. Then Oleg extended his rule, took over Kiev and made it his capital. This is considered the time when the history of Kievan Rus began. The state existed roughly 250 years, from the late 9th century till the Mongol invasion in 1240s.
There was so called Golden age of KR. Some think that this age lasts during the reigns of Vladimir the Great and Yaroslav the Wise, other think that the age was only during Yaroslav's rule and even not in full extention of his rule. Roughly 50 years. During the Golden age the KR enjoed prosperity due to stable political system based on the authority of the Great Duke, economical gains, cultural rise and so on. 50-60 years out of 250. Out of this period, there were constant battles between various principalities (so called mezhduusobizy) about which ruler will be the first among others. To the time of Mongol invasion, there were virtualy no single state. So, in addition to the ethnic differences (East Slavic tribes despite being related to each other had different dialects, customs etc.) the Kievan Rus was politically fragmentated.
The Mongol invasion only made things worse. After that Moscow kingdom rose in so called Nort-Eastern Rus, and the lands of so called South-Western Rus became part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

To be continued.

The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was a very liberal state. I mean that the Rus people had many freedoms at that time - they preserved their language, customs, religion, and so on. In this time there began to form so called Ruthenian language which was a predecessor of modern Ukrainian and Belorussian languages.
In the second half of 16th century GDL formed a union with Poland, the state got a name - Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. For Rus people the things changed dramatically - the Poles pursued the politic of Polonozation. The Rus nobility began to lose their rights, the Rus language was being replaced by Polish in every sphere, Catholizism became a state religion.
Then there was the Cossack Hetmanate, then Khmelnitskiy signed an agreement with Russian kingdom in 1654 about unity. In the 18 th century the most part of todays Ukraine became a part of Russian empire. The Western part was under Poland and then Austro-Hungary (except Volyn).
So, what I want to say with this and my previous post. First of all, the ancient Rus was comprised of various tribes and full integration of this tribes was hampered by political fragmentation of Rus. After the Mongol invasion two main parts of Rus became different states which fought with each other from time to time. Needles to say, that this differences only grew with this. The Cossack Hetmanate became part of Russia only in the second half of 17 but this joining didnt went smooth. There was almost 30 years period of civil war and political turmoil (though the joining wasnt the sole reason because of that; there were also internal issues).
Now, about Ukrainians. The term Ukrainian in context of nationality became widely used only in 20 century. Before that they called themselves Ruthenians or Rusyns (rus'ki liudy). Though it is considered that national identification began to form in the time of Cossacks when the term Ukraine as geographical description began to be used among population.

To be continued.

 

[Stratford57]

Stalin was a Nazi. Good to know

He never placed one nation above another. And he wasn't Russian.

Basically, all Soviet leaders (may be except for Gorbachev) were NOT Russians: Lenin seemed to be a Jew; Stalin (his real last name was Jougashvili) was a Georgian; Khrushchev and Brezhnev were from Ukraine but all the ignorant trolls here love to blame Russians for their actions.