Merry X mas

[Johnney]

It means i am firmly behind my country no matter what they do, be it right or wrong. I am not a fair weather patriot. I am not going to be for my country one day, then when things dont go my way, go against it.

 

[jhiggins]

Johnny: So, yes or no. I take your answer to be a yes. You would slaughter innocent people if your country told you to do so.

 

[Johnney]

to this all i have to say, if its in the job description it would happen. but im a web designer, we dont have too much of a calling to kill people.
but if your reffering to whats happening with the innocents getting killed in the desert. well its war, and yes it happens

 

[jhiggins]

I am being purely hypothetical. What I suspect you are saying is that since our representatives decided to wage war in Iraq you will support that war. Going one step farther, I think I underestand you as saying if our representatives decided, for example, we should assasinate all suspected Bathists, you would support that action. Is this right?

 

[Johnney]

yes that is correct. obviously they are running the show over there and are privy to information we do not have. if they say that this guy has done this this and this so he has to go, or this group did this this and this, they have to go, then they have to go.

 

[jhiggins]

Were you this loyal when Bill Clinton was president?

 

[Johnney]

LIke i said, im not fairweather. yes i was loyal. doenst mean i have to like the man, its the position.

 

[jhiggins]

I respect your consistancy. I do, respectfully, disagree with your outlook, though. How is your position different than that of Adolph Eichman and other Nazi war criminals? Or, is your position that Eichman should not have been found guilty of war crimes?

 

[nbdysfu]

I don't think Johnney is saying, if the leaders asked him to support slaughtering a bunch of innocents or that he would do it and expect no guilt or responsibility as your Eichman example is implying.

What he means is that he has respect for the decisions of the cpa. The cpa is not even hypothetically the nazis. He does not believe they will go around intentionally murdering innocents. There has and will be no such massacre as you fear. And therefore he does not have to worry about such an outcome.

 

[Johnney]

Guilty is guilty. He was following orders. he did his job. if that would be the case, then i would be guilty if i went to trial also. I'm a good soldier, i do what im told/ asked with no questions. I am one that can trust my superiors judgments. if they are wrong, then we are wrong together.

 

[Johnney]

Originally posted by nbdysfu
I don't think Johnney is saying, if the leaders asked him to support slaughtering a bunch of innocents or that he would do it and expect no guilt or responsibility as your Eichman example is implying.

What he means is that he has respect for the decisions of the cpa. The cpa is not even hypothetically the nazis. He does not believe they will go around intentionally murdering innocents. There has and will be no such massacre as you fear. And therefore he does not have to worry about such an outcome.

correct, i was having troubles getting it out of my head with all the food ive eaten inthe alst 2 days

 

[jhiggins]

ndby: I think johnny is saying exactly what I think - he would commit genocide if his superiors ordered him to do so.

I am not fearful of mass killings at the hands of US soldiers in Iraq. My questions are hypothetical in order to get a perspective on Johnny's opinions.

Johnny: What is your opinion of Hitler's SS troops, who were merely following orders?

 

[Johnney]

the nazis were jsut fucked to begin with.
your trying to equivicate my willingness to follow orders to a "T" to genocide.
i may follow orders, but i do have a couple brain cells left. i can also tell right from wrong. wiping out a race of people, be it black , white, jews or what have you, is fucked. wiping out people who have done something to deserve it is something all together different.

 

[jhiggins]

Forgive me if I insulted you - I was just trying to clarify what I thought you were saying and it would seem that I misunderstood you on this point.

 

[Johnney]

Originally posted by jhiggins
Forgive me if I insulted you - I was just trying to clarify what I thought you were saying and it would seem that I misunderstood you on this point.

im pretty thick skinned, i take no offense. but there are different degrees of killing.

 

[jhiggins]

Where I am going is this: One ultimately must make a personal decision on issues of war. If I had been in Nazi Germany, I would like to think that at some point prior to genocide I would have stood up to my country and said I cannot be part of this. My point is that if we blindly follow our leaders I believe we are not doing the right thing. I beleive we must hold our leaders to our standards - govenment of the people by the people.

 

[Johnney]

exactly

 

[jhiggins]

That may mean we must sometimes say to our leaders - no, such and such a policy is a big mistake. I don't think our presidents are always right and always know best.

 

[nbdysfu]

It always has been of the people by the people, even more so since the 70s. I have every bit of confidence that our government is acting with conscience of all that we believe in.

 

[nbdysfu]

If they don't we won't put them in power in the next set of elections. That is how it has always worked. Uprisings are unnecessary.