Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays?

[no1tovote4]

It is simply easiest to say the holiday you celebrate. So a conversation could go like this:

"Merry Christmas!" you say.
"Happy Chaunuka!" they answer...

This way neither holiday gets ignored and each gets exactly the representation of their adherents with nobody being left out.

 

[007]

From your example, it sounds to me like the system is working in exactly the way you claim it is not working. You say that the majority always bends to the will of the minority and then show us a case where the exact opposite happened.

Besides, the fact that they took down all the Merry Christmas signs, lost money, put them back up, and are now making money again should tell you that Macy's couldn't give a damn about Christmas, Christ, or Christians. Macy's only cares about making a buck. If they thought that putting up signs saying "Happy Satan's Day" would increase sales, the Merry Christmas signs would be gone faster than you could blink. Think about that the next time a Macy's clerk wishes you a Merry Christmas and ask yourself how sincere it really is.

I'll admitt, the commercialisation of Christmas, and the Merry Christmas, no Merry Christmas is financially driven, in part. And yes, sometimes the system does work.

The countries that have truly tried to ban religion have done it by killing the members of that religion, burning down their places of worship, and imprisoning the sympathizers, none of which is even close to happening in the US. What you are witnessing here is capitalism at its greatest, and what could be more American than that?

Bullshit. The godless here in America along with groups like the aclu are at war with Christianity. Don't you doubt it for a second. It's small steps now, and larger ones to follow, just as long as enough people don't protest, like yourself. You and the others that could give a rats ass if this vile little minority chips away at what is and isn't allowed during our Christian holiday can consider yourself enablers. You're helping the godless and aclu attain their end result of a complete ban of Christmas all together.

 

[Shattered]

I'll admitt, the commercialisation of Christmas, and the Merry Christmas, no Merry Christmas is financially driven, in part. And yes, sometimes the system does work.



Bullshit. The godless here in America along with groups like the aclu are at war with Christianity. Don't you doubt it for a second. It's small steps now, and larger ones to follow, just as long as enough people don't protest, like yourself. You and the others that could give a rats ass if this vile little minority chips away at what is and isn't allowed during our Christian holiday can consider yourself enablers. <b>You're helping the godless and aclu attain their end result of a complete ban of Christmas all together.</b>

I only have one question.. How can someone (anyone) ban something that is in your heart? Take away all the commercial, and financial bullshit, and what are you left with? What's inside you. Nobody should ever be able to take that away. If they can, that's your (collective - not you personally) doing... You're enabling them.. allowing them to control you.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I only have one question.. How can someone (anyone) ban something that is in your heart? Take away all the commercial, and financial bullshit, and what are you left with? What's inside you. Nobody should ever be able to take that away. If they can, that's your (collective - not you personally) doing... You're enabling them.. allowing them to control you.

No one can ban something/take away what is in your heart. But if you are not allowed to express what is in your heart, it dies a slow and miserable death.

When religion expression is banned from the public square and the marketplace, the expression of what you stand for and believe in is also banned and stamped out.

Your children then grow up in a world that is void of religious expression. They become used to the suppression. Religion becomes less important to them. It doesn't take too many generations for a country to become godless where religion is shunned and the State "religion" replaces it.

People came to America in order to freely practice their individual forms of religion. Religious expression has been very dear to Americans since the beginning and it was everywhere, including the public schools. To allow about 11% of the population (who are basically godless heathen) to dictate to us that we need to shut up about our religious holidays and other religious expressions is totally unacceptable and totally UNAmercian.

 

[fuzzykitten99]

i am one of the minority who picked 'don't care', because i personally don't say either one (or anything) unless they are said to me. I just am not the type.

I can understand the point though. I would rather people and businesses be able to choose what they want to use, without outside pressure to change because one or two people bitch about it.

I don't care what wal-mart uses for holiday advertising, nor any other store. I am still going to shop wherever I want, and not shopping at a place because of their choice in words in their ads, is stupid.

Now I have taken most of my business away from Target, with the rare exception of random times where there is no other store nearby, and the fact that they have the best funny christmas card collections than walmart. This is beacause of their Salvation Army decision. I believe that was a big mistake. Like I said, I can't avoid shopping there 100%, but I will usually go elsewhere.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Ah, Christmas. That joyful time of year when store owners circle their cash regsiters, singing, "What a Friend We Have in Jesus".

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

People came to America in order to freely practice their individual forms of religion. Religious expression has been very dear to Americans since the beginning and it was everywhere, including the public schools. To allow about 11% of the population (who are basically godless heathen) to dictate to us that we need to shut up about our religious holidays and other religious expressions is totally unacceptable and totally UNAmercian.

First, let me say that I am probably more on your side (and Pale Rider's) than you might imagine when it comes to the Government being forced to remove religious references from public places. However I'm trying to stick on topic here so I have to ask why you believe either the Government or 11% of the population are to blame for the signs that businesses choose to put up? We aren't exactly talking about the government taking down the 10 Commandments here, we are talking about business owners who have made a conscious choice to reach 11% of the population. In some cases, like Macy's, the business owners have decided that it wasn't worth it. In others, they haven't come to the same conclusion. I know you wouldn't suggest that the government force Target to put up Merry Christmas signs so why are you upset with the government and 11% of the population for this? Have the ACLU successfully sued a private business for putting up Merry Christmas signs? If so, that is more an indication of a really, really crappy court system that would even give such a lawsuit the time of day! If not, what does the ACLU have to do with this?

It sounds like your problem isn't with 11% of the people but 88% of the people who either don't care about what signs are put up in stores or don't care that much about their religion. That is a different problem and not one that can be blamed on anyone but 88% of the American population.

To allow about 11% of the population (who are basically godless heathen) to dictate to us that we need to shut up about our religious holidays and other religious expressions is totally unacceptable and totally UNAmercian.

Again, I have to say that I don't see anyone dictating anything to anyone in this example. If anything, this is completely American since businesses should have the freedom to advertise in any way they choose to. If you don't like it, and you think that stores like Target are alienating a large portion of the American Christian public, then start up a Christian department store that caters to Christians! If the ACLU sued you for your Merry Christmas signs, I promise that I would stand side by side with you voicing my disgust. I just suspect that most Americans simply don't care all that much about this.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

First, let me say that I am probably more on your side (and Pale Rider's) than you might imagine when it comes to the Government being forced to remove religious references from public places. However I'm trying to stick on topic here so I have to ask why you believe either the Government or 11% of the population are to blame for the signs that businesses choose to put up? We aren't exactly talking about the government taking down the 10 Commandments here, we are talking about business owners who have made a conscious choice to reach 11% of the population. In some cases, like Macy's, the business owners have decided that it wasn't worth it. In others, they haven't come to the same conclusion. I know you wouldn't suggest that the government force Target to put up Merry Christmas signs so why are you upset with the government and 11% of the population for this? Have the ACLU successfully sued a private business for putting up Merry Christmas signs? If so, that is more an indication of a really, really crappy court system that would even give such a lawsuit the time of day! If not, what does the ACLU have to do with this?

It sounds like your problem isn't with 11% of the people but 88% of the people who either don't care about what signs are put up in stores or don't care that much about their religion. That is a different problem and not one that can be blamed on anyone but 88% of the American population.


Again, I have to say that I don't see anyone dictating anything to anyone in this example. If anything, this is completely American since businesses should have the freedom to advertise in any way they choose to. If you don't like it, and you think that stores like Target are alienating a large portion of the American Christian public, then start up a Christian department store that caters to Christians! If the ACLU sued you for your Merry Christmas signs, I promise that I would stand side by side with you voicing my disgust. I just suspect that most Americans simply don't care all that much about this.

Most don't. Most care about who's got the cheapest tickle-me elmo... or whatever this year's toy is.

 

[007]

Again, I have to say that I don't see anyone dictating anything to anyone in this example. If anything, this is completely American since businesses should have the freedom to advertise in any way they choose to. If you don't like it, and you think that stores like Target are alienating a large portion of the American Christian public, then start up a Christian department store that caters to Christians! If the ACLU sued you for your Merry Christmas signs, I promise that I would stand side by side with you voicing my disgust. I just suspect that most Americans simply don't care all that much about this.

And THAT Horhay, seems to be a big part of the problem. More people than not have a "I don't give a shit" attitude. That's EXACTLY what the vocal minority marching around saying they're "OFFENDED" by "Merry Christmas" are counting on. They're hoping they don't run into any opposition. That just makes their job a hell of a lot easier, and they get what they want. The elimination of "Merry Christmas". It's just one more small bite this godless crowd is taking out of Christian America. This weakening emboldens them to push then all the harder for their heathen liberal agendas. Abortion on demand, queer marriage, and the ban of all religous activity, especially Christian.

You see the "no more Merry Christmas" is just the tip of the iceburg. It's just a small part of a massive liberal agenda. The liberals KNOW they can't simply wave the magic wand and be done with Christians in America. They know they have to take small steps, so as to not really tick anyone off, as you and SOOO many others here have demonstrated that you're not. You're willing to let them win, even small victories. Just roll over for them and let them have their way. I don't think any of you really understand what's at stake here. I also don't think it affects you board members as much here that are under thirty. You don't remember how it used to be, so you don't see how radically it's changing. That's also part of the problem.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

And THAT Horhay, seems to be a big part of the problem. More people than not have a "I don't give a shit" attitude. That's EXACTLY what the vocal minority marching around saying they're "OFFENDED" by "Merry Christmas" are counting on. They're hoping they don't run into any opposition.

I won't comment on other stories about people wanting the 10 Commandments removed from courthouses or the removal of city funded Christmas trees because I would be more likely to agree with your "vocal minority" comments in those cases. I just believe that in this particular case of signs in stores, the decision to replace Merry Christmas with Happy Holidays has nothing to do with the government, nothing to do with a vocal minority, nothing to do with the liberal agenda, but everything to do with good old fashioned capitalism. I think the Macy's example enforces that opinion because they put the Merry Christmas signs back up the next year in response the drop in sales. Was there an outcry from the vocal minority when the signs went back up? If there wasn't, then I don't think you can blame the vocal minority for Macy's initial decision to remove the Merry Christmas signs.

 

[007]

I just believe that in this particular case of signs in stores, the decision to replace Merry Christmas with Happy Holidays has nothing to do with the government, nothing to do with a vocal minority, nothing to do with the liberal agenda, but everything to do with good old fashioned capitalism. I think the Macy's example enforces that opinion because they put the Merry Christmas signs back up the next year in response the drop in sales. Was there an outcry from the vocal minority when the signs went back up? If there wasn't, then I don't think you can blame the vocal minority for Macy's initial decision to remove the Merry Christmas signs.

Yes I can blame them. They took the Merry Christmas signs down trying to be PC under pressure from the vocal minority. They put them back up because of their bank account. Their innitial reason for dropping Merry Christmas was exactly what I've been saying. In Macy's example, it was the power of the majority/consumer, that sent them the message, "put the Merry Christmas back up". I wish it would work that way all over, but as I've already observed, there's too many people that don't give a rats ass if they ever hear or see Merry Christmas again. Sad. Another age old American tradition dies.

Just to note... I have not seen nor heard Merry Christmas AT ALL yet this year. The TV is FILLED with happy holidays. I remember when happy holidays was the rare exception, and Merry Christmas is what you always heard.

Ask yourself why that is.

 

[Abbey Normal]

And THAT Horhay, seems to be a big part of the problem. More people than not have a "I don't give a shit" attitude. That's EXACTLY what the vocal minority marching around saying they're "OFFENDED" by "Merry Christmas" are counting on. They're hoping they don't run into any opposition. That just makes their job a hell of a lot easier, and they get what they want. The elimination of "Merry Christmas". It's just one more small bite this godless crowd is taking out of Christian America. This weakening emboldens them to push then all the harder for their heathen liberal agendas. Abortion on demand, queer marriage, and the ban of all religous activity, especially Christian.

You see the "no more Merry Christmas" is just the tip of the iceburg. It's just a small part of a massive liberal agenda. The liberals KNOW they can't simply wave the magic wand and be done with Christians in America. They know they have to take small steps, so as to not really tick anyone off, as you and SOOO many others here have demonstrated that you're not. You're willing to let them win, even small victories. Just roll over for them and let them have their way. I don't think any of you really understand what's at stake here. I also don't think it affects you board members as much here that are under thirty. You don't remember how it used to be, so you don't see how radically it's changing. That's also part of the problem.

I get the stakes, Pale. And you're right, people generally can't see the loss of what they never really knew.

Thank you for your thoughtful posts on this subject. I am a little less sad about the state of things because you give me hope that at least some others get it.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Yes I can blame them. They took the Merry Christmas signs down trying to be PC under pressure from the vocal minority. They put them back up because of their bank account. Their innitial reason for dropping Merry Christmas was exactly what I've been saying. In Macy's example, it was the power of the majority/consumer, that sent them the message, "put the Merry Christmas back up". I wish it would work that way all over, but as I've already observed, there's too many people that don't give a rats ass if they ever hear or see Merry Christmas again. Sad. Another age old American tradition dies.

Just to note... I have not seen nor heard Merry Christmas AT ALL yet this year. The TV is FILLED with happy holidays. I remember when happy holidays was the rare exception, and Merry Christmas is what you always heard.

Ask yourself why that is.

If the majority of people don't care, doesn't that also make you a vocal minority? There's the minority of people who want to abolish Christmas, the minority of people who get supremely offended when they hear Happy Holidays, and then rest of us who couldn't care either way?

 

[Abbey Normal]

If the majority of people don't care, doesn't that also make you a vocal minority? There's the minority of people who want to abolish Christmas, the minority of people who get supremely offended when they hear Happy Holidays, and then rest of us who couldn't care either way?

Clay, I think this thread has often missed Pale's point. It's not that cashiers or bank tellers are saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. As for me, I prefer cashiers to just take care of my transaction quickly and correctly, and maybe not look pissed while they do so. I am not there to chit chat or give mutual greetings. Believe me when I tell you that growing up in NYC, small talk is not prized; speed is. If a cashier says happy holidays to me, of their own volition, fine. Knock yourself out.

The point, and the problem, is not what a cashier decided to say, but when a retailer, or any organization, makes an official policy about it, as we have read some are now doing. That is caving in to some perceived PC crap, from a vocal minority, as Pale put it. The majority of people may or may not care what they hear at point of sale, I really don't know. But it is that anti-Christian PC minority that drives these things, not the people who "don't care".

Much like one atheist suing to remove the words "One Nation Under God" from the Pledge Of Allegiance. The majority of Americans either want it there, or don't care, yet here is SCOTUS hearing the case (again) to have it removed. And you know there are many more similar examples. In order to not see the systematic attempts from Godless liberals to remove God from public view, one must have their eyes and ears tightly closed.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Clay, I think this thread has often missed Pale's point. It's not that cashiers or bank tellers are saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. As for me, I prefer cashiers to just take care of my transaction quickly and correctly, and maybe not look pissed while they do so. I am not there to chit chat or give mutual greetings. Believe me when I tell you that growing up in NYC, small talk is not prized; speed is. If a cashier says happy holidays to me, of their own volition, fine. Knock yourself out.

The point, and the problem, is not what a cashier decided to say, but when a retailer, or any organization, makes an official policy about it, as we have read some are now doing. That is caving in to some perceived PC crap, from a vocal minority, as Pale put it. The majority of people may or may not care what they hear at point of sale, I really don't know. But it is that anti-Christian PC minority that drives these things, not the people who "don't care".

Much like one atheist suing to remove the words "One Nation Under God" from the Pledge Of Allegiance. The majority of Americans either want it there, or don't care, yet here is SCOTUS hearing the case (again) to have it removed. And you know there are many more similar examples. In order to not see the systematic attempts from Godless liberals to remove God from public view, one must have their eyes and ears tightly closed.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I get a little sick of always hearing about how Christianity is under attack, but you all are welcome to voice your disgust at things which you perceive as placing Christianity in this country on the brink of destruction. In all honesty, I'm tired of hearing both sides bitch, it's the same 3 or 4 arguments over and over and over and over again, and each re-hash everyone thinks they've got better and better proof against the other, when in reality you'll never convince the other side of anything. All that you're doing is making us in the majority care even less. I don't care if God is or is not in the pledge of allegiance. If it was up to me, it would stay there not because I thought it was or wasn't right, but because it was there to begin with and there are too many wrongs in the world that trump such a silly thing. I can see this issue from both sides, and I wish people from both sides would just go back to their respective corners and devote their time to something worth the effort.

 

[Mr. P]

I agree with most of what you're saying. I get a little sick of always hearing about how Christianity is under attack, but you all are welcome to voice your disgust at things which you perceive as placing Christianity in this country on the brink of destruction. In all honesty, I'm tired of hearing both sides bitch, it's the same 3 or 4 arguments over and over and over and over again, and each re-hash everyone thinks they've got better and better proof against the other, when in reality you'll never convince the other side of anything. All that you're doing is making us in the majority care even less. I don't care if God is or is not in the pledge of allegiance. If it was up to me, it would stay there not because I thought it was or wasn't right, but because it was there to begin with and there are too many wrongs in the world that trump such a silly thing. I can see this issue from both sides, and I wish people from both sides would just go back to their respective corners and devote their time to something worth the effort.

I couldn't agree more!

Edit: Can't rep ya..Spread it around trap has me..
GAWD....that means I rep'd you before..Crap, what was I thinking? :rotflmao:

 

[Bonnie]

Ah, Christmas. That joyful time of year when store owners circle their cash regsiters, singing, "What a Friend We Have in Jesus".

 

[007]

Well at this point, it's pretty obvious the Merry Christmas crowd IS the MAJORITY. Unfortunately they kind of dropped the ball when it came to arguing "why". None the less, I did my best to argue for them.

It's plain to see that there are now those in America that could care less how things change. It also appears that this is our godless crowd, and leaning liberal, if not all out liberal. I also get the impression from these people that they couldn't care less if Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, or whatever day you want to talk about that we celebrate here in America, and have for a long, long time, since they could care less what those days are called, I don't think they'd care if we quit celebrating those days altogether, no matter what we call them. As I hear them saying it... "it's just another one of your STUPID CHRISTIAN holidays, so why don't you just shut the fuck up about it, who cares". That's a sad attitude to have, and that attitude is exactly why this country is eroding into an immoral, generic, sociolistic, PC carbon copy of europe.

Well over my dead body people. I'll be in your face until the day I die. I "CARE" what America is. I "DO" give a shit. I "WILL" fight to preserve America and it's traditions.

 

[Annie]

I saw this and thought of PR:

 

[007]

I saw this and thought of PR: