Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays?

[Mr. P]

... Then I'll say, Merry FUCKING Christmas asshole. This is AMERICA. We say MERRY CHRISTMAS here. Deal with it.

we also say "Happy Holidays". It's a fact you can't change man, been that way for years and years.

 

[archangel]

Not at all...I guess you and a few others do so a question for you all....

I wonder, would you feel the same if Moslems were the majority?

I don't think so.
Like I said this is a non-issue to me.

all I can say is as long as the ACLU doesn't get it's way this is a moot point...however if I were in the Middle East...I suppose I would keep my mouth shut...lest I would lose my head...which I am fondly attached too!

 

[Gem]

I'm a bit late getting my opinion into the debate...but here it goes anyway:

I could really care less what sort of holiday greeting you give me...as long as it is heartfelt and/or you are not saying it because you are being politically pressured to say the "right thing."

I often say Happy Holidays. I do so because I'm wishing people happiness for their Christmas and New Year or because they are Jewish and I'm wishing them a Happy Chanukah.

I often say Merry Christmas. I do so because I LOVE CHRISTMAS and it makes me incredibly happy to wish people happiness and joy at this time of year. The fact that some one would try to turn my message of good will into some sort of political attack is pathetic.

Wish people whatever sort of good will and happiness you wish. Just do it sincerely! And if you are Jewish and you get a Merry Christmas or are Christian and get a Happy Holidays or if you are an atheist and do not celebrate holidays but receive a warm wish...take them all for what they are...someone wishing you and your family well. We should embrace them all...not fight over which one is the "right" one!

 

[Mr. P]

I'm a bit late getting my opinion into the debate...but here it goes anyway:

I could really care less what sort of holiday greeting you give me...as long as it is heartfelt and/or you are not saying it because you are being politically pressured to say the "right thing."

I often say Happy Holidays. I do so because I'm wishing people happiness for their Christmas and New Year or because they are Jewish and I'm wishing them a Happy Chanukah.

I often say Merry Christmas. I do so because I LOVE CHRISTMAS and it makes me incredibly happy to wish people happiness and joy at this time of year. The fact that some one would try to turn my message of good will into some sort of political attack is pathetic.

Wish people whatever sort of good will and happiness you wish. Just do it sincerely! And if you are Jewish and you get a Merry Christmas or are Christian and get a Happy Holidays or if you are an atheist and do not celebrate holidays but receive a warm wish...take them all for what they are...someone wishing you and your family well. We should embrace them all...not fight over which one is the "right" one!

I'm soooooooooo in love with this kid.

 

[007]

I'm a bit late getting my opinion into the debate...but here it goes anyway:

I could really care less what sort of holiday greeting you give me...as long as it is heartfelt and/or you are not saying it because you are being politically pressured to say the "right thing."

I often say Happy Holidays. I do so because I'm wishing people happiness for their Christmas and New Year or because they are Jewish and I'm wishing them a Happy Chanukah.

I often say Merry Christmas. I do so because I LOVE CHRISTMAS and it makes me incredibly happy to wish people happiness and joy at this time of year. The fact that some one would try to turn my message of good will into some sort of political attack is pathetic.

Wish people whatever sort of good will and happiness you wish. Just do it sincerely! And if you are Jewish and you get a Merry Christmas or are Christian and get a Happy Holidays or if you are an atheist and do not celebrate holidays but receive a warm wish...take them all for what they are...someone wishing you and your family well. We should embrace them all...not fight over which one is the "right" one!

I appreciate your opinion Gem, of which everyone has the right to express.

My point is SIMPLY, that the "holiday" is "Christmas", and the ONLY reason people say something OTHER THAN "Merry Christmas", is because of PRESSURE from a very loud and militant MINORITY. It's that fact alone that upsets me. The MAJORITY once again BENDING to the will of the MINORITY. Why is it that way? I don't understand.

And yes, being 50 years old, I've seen plenty of greetings cards through the years, and happy holidays and seasons greetings is nothing new. It's been around awhile. But the "stores that will not say Merry Christmas" thing is deeper. I believe this is brought on by threatening orginizations like the aclu, who want nothing more than to see ALL religon DRIVEN OUT of America. Then it would be a cake walk for them to further their immoral liberal agenda without a pesky thing like a religon to confront them.

 

[007]

we also say "Happy Holidays". It's a fact you can't change man, been that way for years and years.

I agree those other greetings have been around awhile Mr. P., but I don't want to get away from my point, and that is these major stores deciding to not say or print Merry Christmas anywhere in their stores, is a direct result of pressure from a caustic minority, and orginizations like the aclu, who simply want RELIGON GONE.

Christmas haters have an agenda

"Christmas with the Kranks" is not only the name of a holiday movie this year, it is also a national trend. Once again, Christmas is under siege by the growing forces of secularism. Put these facts in your stocking:

Federated Department Stores, which includes Macy's, has suggested that managers avoid displaying "Merry Christmas" banners and have ordered employees not to talk about it.

In Denver, a church was banned from the Festival of Lights parade because it wanted a religious theme to its float.

The Maplewood, N.J., school board has banned religious music from "holiday" concerts.

Mayor Bloomberg insists that the lighted tree outside City Hall is not a Christmas tree, it's a holiday tree. (What holiday, Mr. Mayor?)
Surveys show that more than 90% of Americans celebrate the federal holiday of Christmas, signed into law by President Ulysses Grant in 1870. Despite that overwhelming number, Christmas continues to get hammered.

The anti-Christmas forces say it's all about diversity, protecting the sensitivities of those Americans who get offended by the mere mention of the birth of Jesus. Somehow I haven't been able to locate any of these folks who find a baby in a manger so off-putting it ruins their day.

So the diversity excuse is a bunch of bull. What's really going on is a well-organized movement to wipe out any display of organized religion from the public arena.

The secular-progressive movement knows that it is organized religion, most specifically Christianity and Judaism, that stands in the way of gay marriage, partial birth abortion, legalized narcotics, euthanasia and many other secular causes. If religion can be de-emphasized, a brave new progressive society can be achieved.

It has happened in Canada. Once a traditional religious country, Canada has become like Holland in its embrace of the secular movement. Some facts: In 1980, 79% of Canadians said religion was important to the country. The number has fallen to 61%. In 1971, less than 1% of the Canadian population reported having no religion whatsoever; that number has risen to 16%.

The fall of religion in Canada has corresponded to a change in public policy. Canadians have legalized gay marriage and any kind of abortion, and the age of consent for sex is 14. Can you imagine American adults being allowed to fool around with children that age? I can't.

The Canadian model is what progressive Americans are shooting for, so religion must be dealt with. Since Christmas is the most demonstrative display of organized religion, a strategy of minimizing the birth of Jesus makes sense.

I know this sounds conspiratorial, but it isn't. Most of those marginalizing Christmas have no idea about the big picture. They simply think they're looking out for the minority of Americans who don't celebrate the birth of Christ.

But committed secularists in the media, courts and education system know what's going on. And now so do you. Merry Christmas!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/261414p-223885c.html

 

[Hobbit]

Merry frickin' Christ Mass!

 

[Abbey Normal]

I appreciate your opinion Gem, of which everyone has the right to express.

My point is SIMPLY, that the "holiday" is "Christmas", and the ONLY reason people say something OTHER THAN "Merry Christmas", is because of PRESSURE from a very loud and militant MINORITY. It's that fact alone that upsets me. The MAJORITY once again BENDING to the will of the MINORITY. Why is it that way? I don't understand.

And yes, being 50 years old, I've seen plenty of greetings cards through the years, and happy holidays and seasons greetings is nothing new. It's been around awhile. But the "stores will not say Merry Christmas" thing is deeper. I believe this is brought on my threatening orginizations like the aclu, who want nothing more than to see ALL religon DRIVEN OUT of America. Then it would be a cake walk for them to further their immoral liberal agenda without a pesky thing like a religon to confront them.

Perfectly said, Pale. That is exactly it.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Merry frickin' Christ Mass!

Merry Christmas to you too, Hobbit!

 

[MissileMan]

My point is SIMPLY, that the "holiday" is "Christmas", and the ONLY reason people say something OTHER THAN "Merry Christmas", is because of PRESSURE from a very loud and militant MINORITY.

If Christmas were indeed the ONLY holiday to occur in late December/ealry January and there were efforts to ban "Merry Christmas" from the scene, I'd be there with you pounding on the store doors.

But since there are 3-4 other major holidays in the same time-frame, I think it makes sense economically that stores cover them all with "Happy Holidays" and Season's Greetings".

On a side note, I heard a rumor that the Kansas Board of Business is going to redefine "holiday". They're going to make stores post notices that "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" are to be met with skepticism.

 

[Mr. P]

If Christmas were indeed the ONLY holiday to occur in late December/ealry January and there were efforts to ban "Merry Christmas" from the scene, I'd be there with you pounding on the store doors.

But since there are 3-4 other major holidays in the same time-frame, I think it makes sense economically that stores cover them all with "Happy Holidays" and Season's Greetings".

...

Pretty much what I've been saying...And from the retailers mouth too.
Here a statement from Wal-Mart..

Wal-Mart is proud to welcome customers of all faith, and celebrants of all holidays.

With more than 138 million customers coming through our stores every week and a variety of holidays that they celebrate throughout this season, "Happy Holidays" is a pleasant greeting that applies to everyone and every celebration. It's simply our way of wishing our customers a good time with their family and friends during this time of year.

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

I just don't see a problem here.

 

[Hobbit]

Pretty much what I've been saying...And from the retailers mouth too.
Here a statement from Wal-Mart..


I just don't see a problem here.

The problem I have is this disturbing trend. When I went into a Target last Christmas, first thing I noticed was that there were no bell-ringers, and that irked me, but then I saw this comprehensive list of greetings throughout the store.

Happy Holidays
Season's Greetings
Happy Hannukah
Happy Ramadan
Happy Kwanzaa
Merry Winter Solstice

Notice anything missing? I went through the whole store looking for a sign that said "Merry Christmas." They seemed to be all-inclusive, so I was sure it had to be *somewhere,* but it wasn't. This is what I hate. Excluding Christmas, but no others. I'd at least be halfway understanding if the Hannukah, Ramadan, and Kwanzaa signs weren't there.

 

[Mr. P]

The problem I have is this disturbing trend. When I went into a Target last Christmas, first thing I noticed was that there were no bell-ringers, and that irked me, but then I saw this comprehensive list of greetings throughout the store.

Happy Holidays
Season's Greetings
Happy Hannukah
Happy Ramadan
Happy Kwanzaa
Merry Winter Solstice

Notice anything missing? I went through the whole store looking for a sign that said "Merry Christmas." They seemed to be all-inclusive, so I was sure it had to be *somewhere,* but it wasn't. This is what I hate. Excluding Christmas, but no others. I'd at least be halfway understanding if the Hannukah, Ramadan, and Kwanzaa signs weren't there.

Did you ask where the "Merry Chrismas" sign was, or just assume there wasn't one cuz you didn't find it?

EDIT: The bell ringer thing is a totally different issue..Here's what target has to say about that...
Earlier in the year, Target had announced a new corporate policy that banned Salvation Army collection kettles from its storefronts. The retailer had a no-solicitation policy at its stores but previously had made an exception for the Salvation Army. That exception has now gone by the wayside. In a September 2004 statement,

Target spokesperson Carolyn Brookter said the chain "determined that if we continue to allow the Salvation Army to solicit, then it opens the door to other groups that wish to solicit our guests."

"It's becoming increasingly difficult to have an exception to our policy, so we decided we would have no exceptions," Brookter said. "This year we just said it's time to ... make our solicitation policy consistent."

I too was pissed about this, but I understand why they did it.

 

[007]

The problem I have is this disturbing trend. When I went into a Target last Christmas, first thing I noticed was that there were no bell-ringers, and that irked me, but then I saw this comprehensive list of greetings throughout the store.

Happy Holidays
Season's Greetings
Happy Hannukah
Happy Ramadan
Happy Kwanzaa
Merry Winter Solstice

Notice anything missing? I went through the whole store looking for a sign that said "Merry Christmas." They seemed to be all-inclusive, so I was sure it had to be *somewhere,* but it wasn't. This is what I hate. Excluding Christmas, but no others. I'd at least be halfway understanding if the Hannukah, Ramadan, and Kwanzaa signs weren't there.

OK, here we go again, not to you right now Hobbit, but to the others, now, 85% of ALL shoppers this season are CHRISTIAN, and a mere 15% will be OTHER. The shopping season is CHRISTMAS, so to you people who are still going to try and tell me that you think catering to the MINORITY is the RIGHT THING TO DO from a BUSINESS STAND POINT, if I owned the business, and you as my manager recommended that to me... I'd fire you.

And now Hobbit's post. That pretty much backs up what my other point is, which is these secularists and groups like the aclu want all signs of this "Christian" holiday GONE. Hannukah, Ramadan, Kwanzaa, NONE of these religons have enough power to exsert any force on the godless liberal aclu driven agenda. Just the Christians, and "CHRISTMAS", which is "Christians" celebrating the birth of "Jesus Christ". I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that "fact", or understand why you're ignoring it.

Personally, I'll have "Merry Christmas" plastered everywhere.

 

[007]

If Christmas were indeed the ONLY holiday to occur in late December/ealry January and there were efforts to ban "Merry Christmas" from the scene, I'd be there with you pounding on the store doors.

But since there are 3-4 other major holidays in the same time-frame, I think it makes sense economically that stores cover them all with "Happy Holidays" and Season's Greetings".

On a side note, I heard a rumor that the Kansas Board of Business is going to redefine "holiday". They're going to make stores post notices that "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" are to be met with skepticism.

OK there's Thanksgiving, then Christmas, then New Years. I think Thanksgiving and Christmas are far enough apart to not make any difference. And I have NEVER heard anyone yell "happy holiday's" at the stroke of midnight on New Years eve. So I don't buy your arguement MM.

 

[Shattered]

Who gives a rip? If someone says Merry Christmas, I'll say Merry Christmas back. If they say Happy Holidays, I'll say Happy Holidays back. Is it really that big a deal?

You can't just look at a person, and determine whether they're Christian, or anything else - the assumption that 85% of all shoppers are Christian is just that - an assumption. Nothing more.

 

[Hobbit]

Did you ask where the "Merry Chrismas" sign was, or just assume there wasn't one cuz you didn't find it?

EDIT: The bell ringer thing is a totally different issue..Here's what target has to say about that...
Earlier in the year, Target had announced a new corporate policy that banned Salvation Army collection kettles from its storefronts. The retailer had a no-solicitation policy at its stores but previously had made an exception for the Salvation Army. That exception has now gone by the wayside. In a September 2004 statement, I too was pissed about this, but I understand why they did it.

I did ask, and the employee hadn't seen one, either, so I did some investigating and found a news story that reported what I suspected. Target was trying to be "sensitive" to people who were offended by Christmas. Also, even if there had been a Merry Christmas sign there, it wouldn't change the fact that I saw a sign for every other holidy two seconds after opening the door, while if there was as Merry Christmas sign that I just hadn't found, it would have to have been behind something or in the stock room. Hardly what I call accomidating.

 

[Mr. P]

OK, here we go again, not to you right now Hobbit, but to the others, now, 85% of ALL shoppers this season are CHRISTIAN, and a mere 15% will be OTHER. The shopping season is CHRISTMAS, so to you people who are still going to try and tell me that you think catering to the MINORITY is the RIGHT THING TO DO from a BUSINESS STAND POINT, if I owned the business, and you as my manager recommended that to me... I'd fire you.

....

Okay Pale..How is "Happy Holidays" catering to the minority?

I don't get it, really I don't. From a business standpoint if you ignored 15% of my customer base you'd be the one fired..15% is a BIG number if you use the Wal-mart 138 million a week figure.

 

[Mr. P]

Who gives a rip? If someone says Merry Christmas, I'll say Merry Christmas back. If they say Happy Holidays, I'll say Happy Holidays back. Is it really that big a deal?

You can't just look at a person, and determine whether they're Christian, or anything else - the assumption that 85% of all shoppers are Christian is just that - an assumption. Nothing more.

Apparently, for some it is. I don't get it.

 

[Shattered]

Apparently, for some it is. I don't get it.

That's a shame. Holidays are meant to be enjoyed by everyone - not bickered about.