Mental Health and how it's looked at in this country

[flacaltenn]

Most people who are diagnosedas mentally ill aren't. All medicine in this country is treated as a business now. Nothing more. And as a whole our medical profession is incompetent.

Well -- you got that partly right. The medical profession as a whole is still a science based practice. Psychology however hasn't improved it's toolset or fact based diagnostic abilities much beyond chemical lobotomies and ink blot tests.

Once any of these mental issues have a known biological basis and standardized testing and appraisal, then they are ripped from the hands of the Psych docs and turned over to the REAL doctors..

"Doctors" who visit with patients for 10 minutes and prescribe a different drug without the benefit of images or numbers or any metrics CAN'T be accurate in their diagnosis.

You are no better then the deniers.

REally? What tools have the pros used to measure and diagnosis your situation? Got any numbers quantifying how your condition compares to "average" cases or "normal" people? Ever been given any metrics to track the progression of your "disease"??

Any pictures/charts of blood, tissue, chemical abnormalities that the drugs are supposed to block/interact with?

What elements of SCIENCE have you observed in ANY of your encounters with "the profession"???

With due respect RGSarge -- I BELIEVE in counseling and treatment for mental health. I don't accept that MOST of what's provided is effective, accurate or scientific in the way that physical/biological problems are approached. That's why too many folks get sucked into a system and abused by being diagnosed and treated under those primitive rules.

What we have here is a system that's TRYING. But lacks the humility to stand down when they don't have definitive measurements or proof for NEED to treat or the ability to really QUANTIFY any progress..

 

[Politico]

Nothing like blanket statements from the woefully ignorant.

Diagnosis of mental illness has quadrupled in the last 10 years. Yeah Im ignorant.

 

[eots]

Since the clean debate zone arrived here in this message board I wanted to talk about a topic that not only effects me but countless people in this country mental health. Well for me I suffer depression, ADHD(Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), and Asperger syndrome. But, with the love and help with my family I'm going back to School and try to become a writer.


But, there are a lot of people out there like me or worse that don't have their family support or they do but, said family can't support them financially. My question I lay out before you is how can we as a country help these people with out marginalizing them or looking at them like they are stupid and just avoiding them.

Hopefully I'm doing this right if not the mods can take this down

Peace

The first step would be to recognize ADHD is a fraud and the so called treatment is a highly dangerous drug not much different than meth or crack

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZXH7MOwjI&feature=related]The Truth about ADHD from their mouth! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well -- you got that partly right. The medical profession as a whole is still a science based practice. Psychology however hasn't improved it's toolset or fact based diagnostic abilities much beyond chemical lobotomies and ink blot tests.

Once any of these mental issues have a known biological basis and standardized testing and appraisal, then they are ripped from the hands of the Psych docs and turned over to the REAL doctors..

"Doctors" who visit with patients for 10 minutes and prescribe a different drug without the benefit of images or numbers or any metrics CAN'T be accurate in their diagnosis.

You are no better then the deniers.

REally? What tools have the pros used to measure and diagnosis your situation? Got any numbers quantifying how your condition compares to "average" cases or "normal" people? Ever been given any metrics to track the progression of your "disease"??

Any pictures/charts of blood, tissue, chemical abnormalities that the drugs are supposed to block/interact with?

What elements of SCIENCE have you observed in ANY of your encounters with "the profession"???

With due respect RGSarge -- I BELIEVE in counseling and treatment for mental health. I don't accept that MOST of what's provided is effective, accurate or scientific in the way that physical/biological problems are approached. That's why too many folks get sucked into a system and abused by being diagnosed and treated under those primitive rules.

What we have here is a system that's TRYING. But lacks the humility to stand down when they don't have definitive measurements or proof for NEED to treat or the ability to really QUANTIFY any progress..

EXACTLY how would they learn to measure BRAIN chemicals? How do they map the brain of a mentally ill person? Maybe we need a couple mad scientists to experiment on humans? As to the Doctors they have to work with what they have. Scientists are not overly interested in studying the brain and there are no billions to spend on it. partly because what we have works and partly because you can not experiment on peoples brains.

But you keep claiming you want to help while damning the entire profession and calling them quakes.

 

[eots]

i had a roommate that was schizophrenic. When he was taking his meds he was fine. One of the kindest and most intelligent people i have ever known. like many people who have mental disabilities, the longer he was taking his medication the more normal he felt and acted. Then he felt himself cured, perfectly normal and stopped taking his meds. That usually ended up with me having him taken into custody and put back in the hospital. It did not take very long for me to figure out i was better off without a roommate at all.

here is the problem that i had. As my roommate began descending into a serious episode, there is no one to go to. Doctors say he's an adult and has the freedom to decide whether or not he wants to take medication. It can't be forced upon him, until he gets so bad that it can be forced upon him. The mentally ill have rights to be mentally ill if they so choose. Someone dealing with another's problems has to wait and watch as they get worse and worse until the police are called. This is california so i had to go to work wondering if i'd find him alive, the neighbors alive and the house not burned down when i got home. Then when the results were indisputable, i could call the police, have my sick roommate put in handcuffs and dragged out under health and safety code 5150. He would be kept by law for 72 hours and i would sit around hoping that the evaluation panel would judge him worth keeping longer.

Jim holmes couldn't even get himself taken seriously when he knew that he was spiraling out of control. We have a world of equality and someone who has murderous impulses or is severely schizophrenic is the same as someone depressed because their cat died.

Today, when i meet someone mentally ill, i back away very slowly, then turn and run as fast as i can. I can't keep them off the streets, but i can keep them away from me.

the sudden "medication" withdraw is the cause of the symptoms

 

[eots]

adhd is an invented illness...and anti depressants do not cure chemical imbalances they create them and are no more effective at treating depression than a sugar pill...these are the facts

you have been schooled on this before. Medication helps approximately 80 percent of the people that take it. I am living proof medication works. It is not an exact science to be sure. But after 10 years we found the right meds for me. My condition is light years better now then it was. All thanks to medication. You would deny treatment for millions because you are a conspiracy advocate.

yep medication works for many, but we are still just learning.
Perhaps one day we will have medication to cure extreme political partisanship.

that is true ...what is also true is the same amount are helped with sugar pill ...how can one not grasp that concept ?

 

[flacaltenn]

You are no better then the deniers.

REally? What tools have the pros used to measure and diagnosis your situation? Got any numbers quantifying how your condition compares to "average" cases or "normal" people? Ever been given any metrics to track the progression of your "disease"??

Any pictures/charts of blood, tissue, chemical abnormalities that the drugs are supposed to block/interact with?

What elements of SCIENCE have you observed in ANY of your encounters with "the profession"???

With due respect RGSarge -- I BELIEVE in counseling and treatment for mental health. I don't accept that MOST of what's provided is effective, accurate or scientific in the way that physical/biological problems are approached. That's why too many folks get sucked into a system and abused by being diagnosed and treated under those primitive rules.

What we have here is a system that's TRYING. But lacks the humility to stand down when they don't have definitive measurements or proof for NEED to treat or the ability to really QUANTIFY any progress..

EXACTLY how would they learn to measure BRAIN chemicals? How do they map the brain of a mentally ill person? Maybe we need a couple mad scientists to experiment on humans? As to the Doctors they have to work with what they have. Scientists are not overly interested in studying the brain and there are no billions to spend on it. partly because what we have works and partly because you can not experiment on peoples brains.

But you keep claiming you want to help while damning the entire profession and calling them quakes.

Sgt -- YOU CAN begin to study brains and brain chemistry without ethical problems. An MRI is an image of CHEMICAL composition. You can watch the brain work in real time that way or thru non-invasive electrical studies or slightly intrusive contrast imaging.

Part of my work is in medical imaging. My daughter is training in neuro-science. We've had long discussion about her staying on the "physical" side of the science and not going down the Psych path. I've asked her to look around at the difference in tools and diagnostic tests that the neurology side has versus the pads and pencils and guessing that the Psych side uses.

A lot of the drugs developed for mental illness were possible because of advances in observing brain function with real physical tools. But we've not yet reached the stage where the Psych side is using these tools enough to diagnose and track illnesses. They are TRYING to make their work more systematic and scientific, but there "manual" for declaring illness is a poor body of guesswork. As EOTs points out -- the honest and humbler Psych folks admit that..

 

[geauxtohell]

Well -- you got that partly right. The medical profession as a whole is still a science based practice. Psychology however hasn't improved it's toolset or fact based diagnostic abilities much beyond chemical lobotomies and ink blot tests.

Once any of these mental issues have a known biological basis and standardized testing and appraisal, then they are ripped from the hands of the Psych docs and turned over to the REAL doctors..

"Doctors" who visit with patients for 10 minutes and prescribe a different drug without the benefit of images or numbers or any metrics CAN'T be accurate in their diagnosis.

You are no better then the deniers.

REally? What tools have the pros used to measure and diagnosis your situation? Got any numbers quantifying how your condition compares to "average" cases or "normal" people? Ever been given any metrics to track the progression of your "disease"??

Any pictures/charts of blood, tissue, chemical abnormalities that the drugs are supposed to block/interact with?

What elements of SCIENCE have you observed in ANY of your encounters with "the profession"???

With due respect RGSarge -- I BELIEVE in counseling and treatment for mental health. I don't accept that MOST of what's provided is effective, accurate or scientific in the way that physical/biological problems are approached. That's why too many folks get sucked into a system and abused by being diagnosed and treated under those primitive rules.

What we have here is a system that's TRYING. But lacks the humility to stand down when they don't have definitive measurements or proof for NEED to treat or the ability to really QUANTIFY any progress..

How do you propose to council a schizophrenic? Try and convince them that the voices they are hearing aren't real?

Good luck with that. They are more apt to believe that you aren't real. The have a fixed break from reality.

The rest of your post is the usual denier crap. There is no doubt that psych is 100% clinical diagnosis. So what? A lot of medicine is clinical diagnosis. The diagnosis of appendicitis should be a clinical diagnosis. You don't need labs or CT to make it by any of the literature.

 

[geauxtohell]

Nothing like blanket statements from the woefully ignorant.

Diagnosis of mental illness has quadrupled in the last 10 years. Yeah Im ignorant.

That's because we try and treat people now as opposed to cramming them into asylums and throwing away the key.

Crazy notion, I know.

Have you ever even been in a psychiatric hospital? Have you ever interacted with psychiatric patients?

 

[Katzndogz]

Nothing like blanket statements from the woefully ignorant.

Diagnosis of mental illness has quadrupled in the last 10 years. Yeah Im ignorant.

That's because we try and treat people now as opposed to cramming them into asylums and throwing away the key.

Crazy notion, I know.

Have you ever even been in a psychiatric hospital? Have you ever interacted with psychiatric patients?

My step father had dementia. I only had a schizophrenic roommate that I trusted would take his medication. Both ended up in psychiatric hospitals and in both cases I gave up. In the case of my roommate, I ran like my ass was on fire.

 

[flacaltenn]

You are no better then the deniers.

REally? What tools have the pros used to measure and diagnosis your situation? Got any numbers quantifying how your condition compares to "average" cases or "normal" people? Ever been given any metrics to track the progression of your "disease"??

Any pictures/charts of blood, tissue, chemical abnormalities that the drugs are supposed to block/interact with?

What elements of SCIENCE have you observed in ANY of your encounters with "the profession"???

With due respect RGSarge -- I BELIEVE in counseling and treatment for mental health. I don't accept that MOST of what's provided is effective, accurate or scientific in the way that physical/biological problems are approached. That's why too many folks get sucked into a system and abused by being diagnosed and treated under those primitive rules.

What we have here is a system that's TRYING. But lacks the humility to stand down when they don't have definitive measurements or proof for NEED to treat or the ability to really QUANTIFY any progress..

How do you propose to council a schizophrenic? Try and convince them that the voices they are hearing aren't real?

Good luck with that. They are more apt to believe that you aren't real. The have a fixed break from reality.

The rest of your post is the usual denier crap. There is no doubt that psych is 100% clinical diagnosis. So what? A lot of medicine is clinical diagnosis. The diagnosis of appendicitis should be a clinical diagnosis. You don't need labs or CT to make it by any of the literature.

Yeah sure.. Appendicitis is a clinical diagnosis.. Except that I took my wife to hospital one night and the attending had my wife prepped for ripping hers out.. Heard the nurses talking about how that was his 15th this week and mocking him... Called her GP, told him to get his butt in here and in 10 minutes -- we were leaning towards colitis or Chrohns. It NEVER WAS actually diagnosed -- because NOBODY TOOK quantitative tests.

So your schizoid.. I think we're aware of SOME of the biological basis for this. Since 2009, MANY studies have confirmed that MRI studies MAY be useful to confirm early onset. It's expensive -- because patients take task tests while in the tube.

So -- counseling is ineffective.. Yep.. Drugs treat it symptomatically.. How accurate are the tests that determine dosage? What is the bar for "normal"? Even my doc is confused about my ability to function with drug-induced BPs of 100/70.. I'm not NORMAL at those pressures.

The main ABUSES that I'm fixated are more for depression, ADHD, OCD, maybe even autism.. The DSM is a running battle of "feelings". And maybe the problem isn't even OVER diagnosis. The folks who SHOULD be treated are sometimes ignored by GP physicians. OR the next mass murderer could be an UNDER-TREATED mental patient. What are the chances of that?

It's not science doc.. There maybe tools right on the horizon.. But it's gonna make Psych treatment in the 80s and 90s look as bad as the 30s and 40s...

I've tried to calm a grieving friend at a mental ward where his daughter was being treated. Psych Dude walks in -- observes for 20 seconds and rips the girl off the previous med and starts her on something else. No real interaction. No hands on. No numbers.
Drugs that are SUPPOSED to be ramped up and down for withdrawal effects. This happened sometimes TWICE A DAY..

My pal took her in for "cutting".. A practice that was RAMPANT a few years back.. I'll wager that 0.1% of the participants needed commitment to a mental ward for 3 weeks. Explain to me how you triage that with the tools that the Psych guys carry...

 

[geauxtohell]

Yeah sure.. Appendicitis is a clinical diagnosis.. Except that I took my wife to hospital one night and the attending had my wife prepped for ripping hers out.. Heard the nurses talking about how that was his 15th this week and mocking him... Called her GP, told him to get his butt in here and in 10 minutes -- we were leaning towards colitis or Chrohns. It NEVER WAS actually diagnosed -- because NOBODY TOOK quantitative tests.

Your anecdote doesn't change the standards of practice based on the evidence. We don't need to uselessly irradiate people with a ct scan and beat their kidney's up with contrast. We don't even need to draw blood to check a white count.

So you let your GP second opinion a surgeon on appendicitis? Okaaaaaaayyyyyyy.........

So your schizoid.. I think we're aware of SOME of the biological basis for this. Since 2009, MANY studies have confirmed that MRI studies MAY be useful to confirm early onset. It's expensive -- because patients take task tests while in the tube.

Schizoid is a completely different diagnosis with a much different neurophysiology and a completely different presentation than schizophrenia.

Do you even know what you are talking about? You apparently do know th difference between a personality disorder an psychosis.

MRI and imaging is not, in fact, terribly useful in diagnosing schizophrenia.

[/quote]
So -- counseling is ineffective.. Yep.. Drugs treat it symptomatically.. How accurate are the tests that determine dosage? What is the bar for "normal"? Even my doc is confused about my ability to function with drug-induced BPs of 100/70.. I'm not NORMAL at those pressures. [/quote]

Again, it's clinical which is why psychiatry is a discreet field. I am never going to start someone on anti-psychotics. It's outside my scope of practice.

The main ABUSES that I'm fixated are more for depression, ADHD, OCD, maybe even autism.. The DSM is a running battle of "feelings". And maybe the problem isn't even OVER diagnosis. The folks who SHOULD be treated are sometimes ignored by GP physicians. OR the next mass murderer could be an UNDER-TREATED mental patient. What are the chances of that?

It's not science doc.. There maybe tools right on the horizon.. But it's gonna make Psych treatment in the 80s and 90s look as bad as the 30s and 40s...

It is science. He fact that it's not 100% efficient doesn't invalidate it. If you think it does, look up "numbers needed to treat". Medical science takes positions based on populations. Not the outliers.

I've tried to calm a grieving friend at a mental ward where his daughter was being treated. Psych Dude walks in -- observes for 20 seconds and rips the girl off the previous med and starts her on something else. No real interaction. No hands on. No numbers.
Drugs that are SUPPOSED to be ramped up and down for withdrawal effects. This happened sometimes TWICE A DAY..

My pal took her in for "cutting".. A practice that was RAMPANT a few years back.. I'll wager that 0.1% of the participants needed commitment to a mental ward for 3 weeks. Explain to me how you triage that with the tools that the Psych guys carry...

I'd have to know more about the case. I.e the diagnosis, etc,

 

[MisterBeale]

It is science. He fact that it's not 100% efficient doesn't invalidate it. If you think it does, look up "numbers needed to treat". Medical science takes positions based on populations. Not the outliers.

The DSM is "science?" By whose standards? Those taking the making the initial "diagnosis?" Those populations are still self-described. I've seen the descriptors for what they qualify as ADHD. That is no, "science." Please, spare us.

What the following describes is a precocious child that is expected to act like an "adult" in a corporate setting.

Diagnostic criteria for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder
(DSM IV - TR)
(cautionary statement)

A. Either (1) or (2):

(1) inattention: six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish school work, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities

(2) hyperactivity-impulsivity: six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Hyperactivity

(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
(c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
(e) is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"
(f) often talks excessively

Impulsivity

(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn
(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)

B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years.

C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorders, or a Personality Disorder).

They are diagnosing kids with this in pre-school, kindergarten, and first grade. No, really!

The thing to remember, is all brains work differently. Yet we have one establishment, one system. In this system, teachers, administrators, bosses, and bureaucrats expect everyone to look, act, think, feel and behave the same. Well, you know what, nature doesn't work like that. Nature is about variety. That is how it works. Some people have black hair, some have brown, some have curly, some have straight. How brains and personalities take in information, sort it, process and learn is just as varied. There are active learners, passive learners, visual learners, passive learners. People that are good are getting things from books, from lectures, etc. So if some kids get bored sitting still in one place for five minutes at the age of five, ten, fifteen, and need to get up and walk around and laugh and play a bit . . . well, that's AGAINST THE RULES!

CHEMICAL LOBOTOMY TIME!

When they start people on drugs and mess with their brain chemistry early in life? Well, at that point, it's all over. You're pretty much screwed for life. And speaking of brain chemistry. . . . for everyone else out there, it is time to rise up and question the establishment. What is in the food, and the water. YES, we have some real problem. But the other animals in the animal kingdom are not suffering like we are. We have done it to our selves. I can not imagine WHY we continue to let them poison our water like we do for so long. I won't get into the whole FLUORIDE debate here, but needles to say, it screws you up for life. There is a Harvard study out there proving what it does to your IQ. There was a reason the NAZI's and Stalin gave it to their populations.

And then there is what they add to the food. The nasty food additives are not good for anyone. Before the people on here start going on about how badly they need drugs, yes, perhaps they do at this point. Like I said, brains are all different. Some peoples brains are VERY sensitive to different poisons and chemicals. My son was very active, and distractable at an early age. He has an extremely high intelligence and wild imagination.

The system wanted me to give him a chemical lobotomy. What kid get suspended from school in Kindergarten? What a bunch of tight asses. They wanted him on drugs even then. Child abuse I tell you. (The same educational establishment that preaches "Just say NO?" Fucking hypocrites. ) And the teachers bitched about him in first grade too. His mother and I relented and had him tested. And of course the "doctors" said that he had "ADHD," or some bullshit or other like that. But we just took him to a program of special parental parenting interaction, and I did diet research, and found out it was mostly just his diet. The shit corporations put in food today is toxic, especially for the young. That and FLUORIDE of course. So I just got him on a children's multivitamin, organic food, cut out all additive and preservatives and focused on parent/child interaction and gave him a chance to grow up, and he is a perfectly well adjusted straight A student now.

Plus he is taller and stronger than 95% of his class mates.

Junk Foods Cause 'Mental Illness'
http://www.healthy.net/Health_News/Junk_Foods_Cause_Mental_Illness/8164

Mental illness, which really boils down to unusual and socially 'unacceptable' behavior and ideas, may be caused by wrong nutrition, according to some recent studies reported in the UK press.

"Food can have an immediate and lasting effect on mental health and behaviour because of the way it affects the structure and function of the brain".

The Mental Health Foundation says scientific studies have clearly linked attention deficit disorder, depression, Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia to junk food and the absence of essential fats, vitamins and minerals in industrialised diets.

A further report, Changing Diets, Changing Minds, is also published today by Sustain, the organisation that campaigns for better food. It warns that the NHS bill for mental illness, at almost £100bn a year, will continue to rise unless the government focuses on diet and the brain in its food, farming, education and environment policies.

"Food can have an immediate and lasting effect on mental health and behaviour because of the way it affects the structure and function of the brain," Sustain's report says. Its chairman, Tim Lang, said: "Mental health has been completely neglected by those working on food policy. If we don't address it and change the way we farm and fish, we may lose the means to prevent much diet-related ill health."

The establishment is poisoning EVERYONE with their food and water. Some people are more resistant to it than others. The rich can afford to eat better than the poor, and I think if you do the research, you will find that their rates of "mental illness" are substantially lower than the poor.

I love Huxley. Oh he predicted it, he was RIGHT SMACK ON THE MONEY!

"And if ever, by some unlucky chance, anything unpleasant should somehow happen, why, there's always soma to give you a holiday from the facts. And there's always soma to calm your anger, to reconcile you to your enemies, to make you patient and long-suffering. In the past you could only accomplish these things by making a great effort and after years of hard moral training. Now, you swallow two or three half-gramme tablets, and there you are. Anybody can be virtuous now. You can carry at least half your morality about in a bottle. Christianity without tears-that's what soma is."
Soma in Aldous Huxley's
Brave New World
http://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html

 

[Michelle420]

Since the clean debate zone arrived here in this message board I wanted to talk about a topic that not only effects me but countless people in this country mental health. Well for me I suffer depression, ADHD(Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), and Asperger syndrome. But, with the love and help with my family I'm going back to School and try to become a writer.


But, there are a lot of people out there like me or worse that don't have their family support or they do but, said family can't support them financially. My question I lay out before you is how can we as a country help these people with out marginalizing them or looking at them like they are stupid and just avoiding them.

Hopefully I'm doing this right if not the mods can take this down

Peace

Mental Health was deregulated in the 80's so there is not alot of options for those who suffer but have no finances.

Many are homeless.

Homeless Mentally Ill Facts, Figures and Anecdotes- MENTAL ILLNESS POLICY ORG.

 

[RosieS]

You are no better then the deniers.

REally? What tools have the pros used to measure and diagnosis your situation? Got any numbers quantifying how your condition compares to "average" cases or "normal" people? Ever been given any metrics to track the progression of your "disease"??

Any pictures/charts of blood, tissue, chemical abnormalities that the drugs are supposed to block/interact with?

What elements of SCIENCE have you observed in ANY of your encounters with "the profession"???

With due respect RGSarge -- I BELIEVE in counseling and treatment for mental health. I don't accept that MOST of what's provided is effective, accurate or scientific in the way that physical/biological problems are approached. That's why too many folks get sucked into a system and abused by being diagnosed and treated under those primitive rules.

What we have here is a system that's TRYING. But lacks the humility to stand down when they don't have definitive measurements or proof for NEED to treat or the ability to really QUANTIFY any progress..

EXACTLY how would they learn to measure BRAIN chemicals? How do they map the brain of a mentally ill person? Maybe we need a couple mad scientists to experiment on humans? As to the Doctors they have to work with what they have. Scientists are not overly interested in studying the brain and there are no billions to spend on it. partly because what we have works and partly because you can not experiment on peoples brains.

But you keep claiming you want to help while damning the entire profession and calling them quakes.

Not to worry. Here are scans of the depressed brain and a normal brain. The depressed brain is blue!

Mayo Clinic medical information and tools for healthy living - MayoClinic.com

Anyone who argues with Mayo Clinic about results like this is a fool.

fMRI's can track what areas of the brain "light up" and which do not during activities. Comparisons can easily be made between the same person unmedicated vs. medicated.

I am a recovered chronic depressive married to a bipolar. We each have benefited from new medicines and Hubs has from new imaging.

Life can be unbearable when you need treatment, and sweet as sugar when the meds. and counseling are correct.

Forgive the ignorant...they were taught wrongly and got stuck. The future holds much promise for diagnosis and treatment with accuracy.

Congrats on outlasting and winning your battle with depression. I did, too. Hopefully my oldest son can soon. He hasn't found what works for him yet. It runs in families.

Regards from Rosie

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[eots]

I was going to say that a pretty good indicator of the attitudes concerning mental illness in this country would be to look at the responses here.

How do we change those attitudes? I don't have a freaking clue. I work with the profoundly intellectually disabled. People still call them derogatory names, make fun of them and sometimes physically abuse them. Sometimes I wish it were possible for those.people to switch places with them....just for a few days.

ADHD is an invented illness...and anti depressants do not cure chemical imbalances they create them and are no more effective at treating depression than a sugar pill...these are the facts

You have been schooled on this before. Medication helps approximately 80 percent of the people that take it. I am living proof medication works. It is not an exact science to be sure. But after 10 years we found the right meds for me. My condition is light years better now then it was. All thanks to medication. You would deny treatment for millions because you are a conspiracy advocate.

just published in JAMA Jan 5, reported that SSRI antidepressants are no better than placebo for most cases of depression. The authors reviewed 30 years of data and concluded that "the benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo may be minimal or nonexistent


CBC news covers the recent studies showing that Antidepressants were found to be no more effective than Placebo.

 

[eots]

REally? What tools have the pros used to measure and diagnosis your situation? Got any numbers quantifying how your condition compares to "average" cases or "normal" people? Ever been given any metrics to track the progression of your "disease"??

Any pictures/charts of blood, tissue, chemical abnormalities that the drugs are supposed to block/interact with?

What elements of SCIENCE have you observed in ANY of your encounters with "the profession"???

With due respect RGSarge -- I BELIEVE in counseling and treatment for mental health. I don't accept that MOST of what's provided is effective, accurate or scientific in the way that physical/biological problems are approached. That's why too many folks get sucked into a system and abused by being diagnosed and treated under those primitive rules.

What we have here is a system that's TRYING. But lacks the humility to stand down when they don't have definitive measurements or proof for NEED to treat or the ability to really QUANTIFY any progress..

EXACTLY how would they learn to measure BRAIN chemicals? How do they map the brain of a mentally ill person? Maybe we need a couple mad scientists to experiment on humans? As to the Doctors they have to work with what they have. Scientists are not overly interested in studying the brain and there are no billions to spend on it. partly because what we have works and partly because you can not experiment on peoples brains.

But you keep claiming you want to help while damning the entire profession and calling them quakes.

Not to worry. Here are scans of the depressed brain and a normal brain. The depressed brain is blue!

Mayo Clinic medical information and tools for healthy living - MayoClinic.com

Anyone who argues with Mayo Clinic about results like this is a fool.

fMRI's can track what areas of the brain "light up" and which do not during activities. Comparisons can easily be made between the same person unmedicated vs. medicated.

I am a recovered chronic depressive married to a bipolar. We each have benefited from new medicines and Hubs has from new imaging.

Life can be unbearable when you need treatment, and sweet as sugar when the meds. and counseling are correct.

Forgive the ignorant...they were taught wrongly and got stuck. The future holds much promise for diagnosis and treatment with accuracy.

Congrats on outlasting and winning your battle with depression. I did, too. Hopefully my oldest son can soon. He hasn't found what works for him yet. It runs in families.

Regards from Rosie

your link is nothing more than a picture and there is nothing there to back any of your claims