Men! Do we understand 21st century feminism? Does it matter?

[Stainmaster]

Here is one definition to start with;

The 21st-century feminist is anyone — female or male — who rejects gender privilege and demands real equality for men and women under the law. She makes her own choices and takes personal responsibility for them, without asking government for protection or tax dollars.

ifeminists.com > editorial > 21st-Century Feminism

 

[JBeukema]

By ' 21st century feminism' you mean 3rd wave feminazis and their descendents who spit on everything the real [First and Third wave] feminists stood for?

Because ' rejects gender privilege and demands real equality for men and women under the law. She makes her own choices and takes personal responsibility for them, without asking government for protection or tax dollars. ' describes the First and Second wavers and not a lot of the more recent groups who want to invert rather than abolish the system of oppression and inequality.

Sounds like the site is describing some sort of fourth wave that rejects the 3rd wave feminazis and embraces the real feminists who marched beside the rest of the civil rights movement, and waved the red flag.

 

[dilloduck]

It doesn't matter---
do I need to drag out The Feminization of the American male ----again ?

 

[Stainmaster]

By ' 21st century feminism' you mean 3rd wave feminazis and their descendents who spit on everything the real [First and Third wave] feminists stood for?

Because ' rejects gender privilege and demands real equality for men and women under the law. She makes her own choices and takes personal responsibility for them, without asking government for protection or tax dollars. ' describes the First and Second wavers and not a lot of the more recent groups who want to invert rather than abolish the system of oppression and inequality.

Sounds like the site is describing some sort of fourth wave that rejects the 3rd wave feminazis and embraces the real feminists who marched beside the rest of the civil rights movement, and waved the red flag.

We can put this one on "ignore."

 

[Sheldon]

It doesn't matter---
do I need to drag out The Feminization of the American male ----again ?

I type using only my pinkies. Are you saying there's something wrong with that?

 

[JBeukema]

By ' 21st century feminism' you mean 3rd wave feminazis and their descendents who spit on everything the real [First and Third wave] feminists stood for?

Because ' rejects gender privilege and demands real equality for men and women under the law. She makes her own choices and takes personal responsibility for them, without asking government for protection or tax dollars. ' describes the First and Second wavers and not a lot of the more recent groups who want to invert rather than abolish the system of oppression and inequality.

Sounds like the site is describing some sort of fourth wave that rejects the 3rd wave feminazis and embraces the real feminists who marched beside the rest of the civil rights movement, and waved the red flag.

We can put this one on "ignore."

So recognizing that the 3rd wavers sold out the feminist movement and spat on everything the 1st and 2nd wavers stood for is something that should be ignored?

Traditional feminists viewed themselves not a as a distinct movement but part of the overall leftist struggle for equality, embracing gender, racial, and class equality for all persons. They have traditionally marched besides socialists, communists, social democrats, democratic socialists, and others who opposed the exploitation or oppression of any given demographic or group of people. The First and Second Wavers were to be found among the likes of Helen Keller reading Marx, debating revolution versus reform, decrying the ill effects of nationalism, and aiding the unions in organizing their protests to further the labour movement here and abroad.

The feminists later became a distinct movement, as did some elements of the racial-equality movement. Both groups then suffered a series of schisms, as the more extremists wings [the revolutionary groups, communists, separatists, and those such as the 3rd wavers and the Al Sharptons who sought to inverse rather than abolish the system of oppression and exploitation] parted ways with more moderate parties [reformists, social democrats, progressives, and those who continued to struggle for true equal].

Unfortunately, the more extremist views took hold in much of academia and some legislation [the matter more so, however, in the race-based movements that with the feminist movement], which has been quite detrimental to the credibility of the movement as a whole and has arguably been quite counterproductive as of late, due in large part to the resulting backlash.

 

[Stainmaster]

By ' 21st century feminism' you mean 3rd wave feminazis and their descendents who spit on everything the real [First and Third wave] feminists stood for?

Because ' rejects gender privilege and demands real equality for men and women under the law. She makes her own choices and takes personal responsibility for them, without asking government for protection or tax dollars. ' describes the First and Second wavers and not a lot of the more recent groups who want to invert rather than abolish the system of oppression and inequality.

Sounds like the site is describing some sort of fourth wave that rejects the 3rd wave feminazis and embraces the real feminists who marched beside the rest of the civil rights movement, and waved the red flag.

We can put this one on "ignore."

So recognizing that the 3rd wavers sold out the feminist movement and spat on everything the 1st and 2nd wavers stood for is something that should be ignored?

Traditional feminists viewed themselves not a as a distinct movement but part of the overall leftist struggle for equality, embracing gender, racial, and class equality for all persons. They have traditionally marched besides socialists, communists, social democrats, democratic socialists, and others who opposed the exploitation or oppression of any given demographic or group of people. The First and Second Wavers were to be found among the likes of Helen Keller reading Marx, debating revolution versus reform, decrying the ill effects of nationalism, and aiding the unions in organizing their protests to further the labour movement here and abroad.

The feminists later became a distinct movement, as did some elements of the racial-equality movement. Both groups then suffered a series of schisms, as the more extremists wings [the revolutionary groups, communists, separatists, and those such as the 3rd wavers and the Al Sharptons who sought to inverse rather than abolish the system of oppression and exploitation] parted ways with more moderate parties [reformists, social democrats, progressives, and those who continued to struggle for true equal].

Unfortunately, the more extremist views took hold in much of academia and some legislation [the matter more so, however, in the race-based movements that with the feminist movement], which has been quite detrimental to the credibility of the movement as a whole and has arguably been quite counterproductive as of late, due in large part to the resulting backlash.

Well Ladies, you found your first chauvinist pig! I'd like to get a few swings in myself, if you'll let me!


Chauvinism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.....Because "chauvinism" is most often heard in this context, it is often mistakenly believed to refer exclusively to "male chauvinism" such as anti-feminism and sexism...

 

[ekrem]

I don't know what you really mean, but coming to your second question I believe it does not matter. There are civil norms in a society. In general, the non-partnership interaction between men and women in society does not constitute a problem. Special cases like crime, rapes, stalking and other sort of violence against women will always be there. You cant erase this.

A woman is there to give birth, if she does this by marriage and commiting to 1 man (monogamy), the civil norm plays anyway a minor role. In a partnership there are men who are more soft and guys that play rough. Also there are women who like both types.
Most men are not in the position to choose their women, it goes like this: Declaring interest and woman decides. Not everyone is a Ricky Martin, and if you become a bit older things do anyway get complicated.

So a woman has to choose which type of guy she chooses. Life is about reproduction. This sovereignity in choosing the partner is feminism enough. There are societies where women do not have this sovereignity.
Keep it simple, without having read/dealt with the subject of 21st century feminism, you do not have to swim with the general wave.
Some years ago the term "metrosexuality" was also in.

 

[Stainmaster]

I don't know what you really mean, but coming to your second question I believe it does not matter. There are civil norms in a society. In general, the non-partnership interaction between men and women in society does not constitute a problem. Special cases like crime, rapes, stalking and other sort of violence against women will always be there. You cant erase this.

A woman is there to give birth, if she does this by marriage and commiting to 1 man (monogamy), the civil norm plays anyway a minor role. In a partnership there are men who are more soft and guys that play rough. Also there are women who like both types.
Most men are not in the position to choose their women, it goes like this: Declaring interest and woman decides. Not everyone is a Ricky Martin, and if you become a bit older things do anyway get complicated.

So a woman has to choose which type of guy she chooses. Life is about reproduction. This sovereignity in choosing the partner is feminism enough. There are societies where women do not have this sovereignity.
Keep it simple, without having read/dealt with the subject of 21st century feminism, you do not have to swim with the general wave.
Some years ago the term "metrosexuality" was also in.

Totally missed the point.

 

[Sheldon]

We can put this one on "ignore."

So recognizing that the 3rd wavers sold out the feminist movement and spat on everything the 1st and 2nd wavers stood for is something that should be ignored?

Traditional feminists viewed themselves not a as a distinct movement but part of the overall leftist struggle for equality, embracing gender, racial, and class equality for all persons. They have traditionally marched besides socialists, communists, social democrats, democratic socialists, and others who opposed the exploitation or oppression of any given demographic or group of people. The First and Second Wavers were to be found among the likes of Helen Keller reading Marx, debating revolution versus reform, decrying the ill effects of nationalism, and aiding the unions in organizing their protests to further the labour movement here and abroad.

The feminists later became a distinct movement, as did some elements of the racial-equality movement. Both groups then suffered a series of schisms, as the more extremists wings [the revolutionary groups, communists, separatists, and those such as the 3rd wavers and the Al Sharptons who sought to inverse rather than abolish the system of oppression and exploitation] parted ways with more moderate parties [reformists, social democrats, progressives, and those who continued to struggle for true equal].

Unfortunately, the more extremist views took hold in much of academia and some legislation [the matter more so, however, in the race-based movements that with the feminist movement], which has been quite detrimental to the credibility of the movement as a whole and has arguably been quite counterproductive as of late, due in large part to the resulting backlash.

Well Ladies, you found your first chauvinist pig! I'd like to get a few swings in myself, if you'll let me!


Chauvinism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.....Because "chauvinism" is most often heard in this context, it is often mistakenly believed to refer exclusively to "male chauvinism" such as anti-feminism and sexism...

I don't see how you're making that leap.

JB was giving some background about the struggle for the equality of legal rights for women. Nothing in there seemed sexist.

Not sure if the term feminist, which can have a degree of negative connotation to some, has become more or less of a 'dirty word' since it first came into mainstream vernacular. I think feminist sometimes gets equated with feminazi, but the two are different, like pro-military versus militant.

 

[Sheldon]

There's only guys in this thread.

The lady-bait didn't work out, dude!

 

[dilloduck]

There's only guys in this thread.

The lady-bait didn't work out, dude!

Never does--gotta make it really easy for the muffins to hop in !

 

[Sheldon]

Maybe if Stain put a shirt on, and stopped putting scented candles all over the place, there wouldn't be this problem.

 

[Oddball]

By ' 21st century feminism' you mean 3rd wave feminazis and their descendents who spit on everything the real [First and Third wave] feminists stood for?

Because ' rejects gender privilege and demands real equality for men and women under the law. She makes her own choices and takes personal responsibility for them, without asking government for protection or tax dollars. ' describes the First and Second wavers and not a lot of the more recent groups who want to invert rather than abolish the system of oppression and inequality.

Sounds like the site is describing some sort of fourth wave that rejects the 3rd wave feminazis and embraces the real feminists who marched beside the rest of the civil rights movement, and waved the red flag.

We can put this one on "ignore."

That would be the smartest thing you've done since you started posting.

Then, you can put on a shirt.

 

[JBeukema]

We can put this one on "ignore."

So recognizing that the 3rd wavers sold out the feminist movement and spat on everything the 1st and 2nd wavers stood for is something that should be ignored?

Traditional feminists viewed themselves not a as a distinct movement but part of the overall leftist struggle for equality, embracing gender, racial, and class equality for all persons. They have traditionally marched besides socialists, communists, social democrats, democratic socialists, and others who opposed the exploitation or oppression of any given demographic or group of people. The First and Second Wavers were to be found among the likes of Helen Keller reading Marx, debating revolution versus reform, decrying the ill effects of nationalism, and aiding the unions in organizing their protests to further the labour movement here and abroad.

The feminists later became a distinct movement, as did some elements of the racial-equality movement. Both groups then suffered a series of schisms, as the more extremists wings [the revolutionary groups, communists, separatists, and those such as the 3rd wavers and the Al Sharptons who sought to inverse rather than abolish the system of oppression and exploitation] parted ways with more moderate parties [reformists, social democrats, progressives, and those who continued to struggle for true equal].

Unfortunately, the more extremist views took hold in much of academia and some legislation [the matter more so, however, in the race-based movements that with the feminist movement], which has been quite detrimental to the credibility of the movement as a whole and has arguably been quite counterproductive as of late, due in large part to the resulting backlash.

Well Ladies, you found your first chauvinist pig! I'd like to get a few swings in myself, if you'll let me!


Chauvinism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.....Because "chauvinism" is most often heard in this context, it is often mistakenly believed to refer exclusively to "male chauvinism" such as anti-feminism and sexism...

seriously, do you even know what the fuck you're babbling about?

 

[JBeukema]

A woman is there to give birth

kindly go fuck yourself

Most men are not in the position to choose their women, it goes like this: Declaring interest and woman decides. Not everyone is a Ricky Martin, and if you become a bit older things do anyway get complicated.

She decides whether she's interested and you decide whether you're interested in. In a society where the sexes are equal, relationships are a two-way street.

That you speak of taking anything you can get says more about yourself than anything else.

Life is about reproduction.

For some. For others, that's not what beings true joy and contentment. Life is about what makes one happy.

This sovereignity in choosing the partner is feminism enough

Right... forget about equal pay equal work, suffrage, or when we finally outlawed spousal rape some forty years ago

Do go fuck yourself

 

[Stainmaster]

So recognizing that the 3rd wavers sold out the feminist movement and spat on everything the 1st and 2nd wavers stood for is something that should be ignored?

Traditional feminists viewed themselves not a as a distinct movement but part of the overall leftist struggle for equality, embracing gender, racial, and class equality for all persons. They have traditionally marched besides socialists, communists, social democrats, democratic socialists, and others who opposed the exploitation or oppression of any given demographic or group of people. The First and Second Wavers were to be found among the likes of Helen Keller reading Marx, debating revolution versus reform, decrying the ill effects of nationalism, and aiding the unions in organizing their protests to further the labour movement here and abroad.

The feminists later became a distinct movement, as did some elements of the racial-equality movement. Both groups then suffered a series of schisms, as the more extremists wings [the revolutionary groups, communists, separatists, and those such as the 3rd wavers and the Al Sharptons who sought to inverse rather than abolish the system of oppression and exploitation] parted ways with more moderate parties [reformists, social democrats, progressives, and those who continued to struggle for true equal].

Unfortunately, the more extremist views took hold in much of academia and some legislation [the matter more so, however, in the race-based movements that with the feminist movement], which has been quite detrimental to the credibility of the movement as a whole and has arguably been quite counterproductive as of late, due in large part to the resulting backlash.

Well Ladies, you found your first chauvinist pig! I'd like to get a few swings in myself, if you'll let me!


Chauvinism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.....Because "chauvinism" is most often heard in this context, it is often mistakenly believed to refer exclusively to "male chauvinism" such as anti-feminism and sexism...

seriously, do you even know what the fuck you're babbling about?

I probably don't know as much as I should,,,,,,,,,,,,, but I know a lot more than you do.

 

[bruzz]

The pansy girlie men metrosexuals have opened the door for the 3rd wave feminist's to invert the feminist movement. Men do not have to be wimps to achieve gender equality in society.