Meet the Press

[William Joyce]

Tim Russert, Pat Buchanan, Bob Graham and Newt Gingrich. Read and CHOKE, neocons!

MR. RUSSERT: ...with you and our viewers and give a chance for our group to respond to it. "U.S. dominance of the Middle East is not the corrective to terror. It is a cause of terror. Were were not over there, the 9/11 terrorists would not have been over here. And while their acts were murderous and despicable, behind their atrocities lay a political motive. We were attacked because of our imperial presence on the sacred soil of the land of Mecca and Medina, because of our enemies' perception that we were strangling the Iraqi people with sanctions and preparing to attack a second time, and because of our uncritical support of the Likud regime of Ariel Sharon" in Israel.

Are you suggesting that our alliance with Israel is one of the reasons that we were attacked on September 11?

MR. BUCHANAN: Sure. That's one of the reasons given by Osama bin Laden. In his fatwa of 1998, he wrote that there are three causes of the problems and three causes for a declaration of war by all Arabs and good Muslims against the United States. One, America's imperial presence on the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia. Secondly, the sanctions policy against Iraq which was persecuting and basically starving, he said, the Iraqi people, and we were planning another invasion. Third is the United States' uncritical support of the Ariel Sharon regime in Israel, which he argued is persecuting the Palestinian people.

In my judgment, Chris, this one-sided support for Sharon, the refusal to condemn that wall snaking through the West Bank, the agreement to support Sharon's claim to virtually half of the West Bank, this has caused enormous hostility and animosity and hatred for this country in that part of the world, not just among the Palestinians. And if we want to drain off some of this hatred, this venom against us, we have got to adopt a more evenhanded policy here. We have got to stand up for the same rights for the Palestinian people, a homeland, a nation, a state of their own, a viable one, on the land their forefathers farmed for a thousand years, because those are first our principles and secondly, that is in the national interest of the United States of America. I don't care what Ariel Sharon believes.

MR. RUSSERT: They are not attacking us because they hate us and hate our culture?

MR. BUCHANAN: This is the fundamental point. Are they attacking us because of who we are and what they believe or are they attacking us because of what we do? I believe it is our policies, not our principles that are causing these attacks. Osama bin Laden wasn't sitting in some cave in Afghanistan and stumble on the Bill of Rights and go bananas. It is because of what we are doing. Most fundamentally, it wasn't Israel number one. Number one, Saudi Arabia, female soldiers, American soldiers sitting there on the land of Mecca and Medina.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Graham, you buy that theory?

SEN. GRAHAM: I think that our policies have been the key to the terrorist motivation. In the book, you'll see several discussions with leaders in Egypt and Syria and Lebanon, and they all point to the urgency of the United States being fully engaged with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to try to bring it to a resolution and a concern that President Bush has not been significantly committed to achieving that goal.

MR. RUSSERT: Mr. Speaker, what do you think of the theory?

MR. GINGRICH: Well, let me go through the facts. President Bush is the first American president to actively advocate a Palestinian state but he said it has to be a Palestinian state based on democracy and a willingness to co-exist with Israel. Second, what Pat said is true

 

[Merlin1047]

Why no link? Gingrich's statement appeared to have been truncated in your cut & paste. Was there something you didn't want us to read?

 

[Avatar4321]

Also, who cares?

Who cares what Buchanan says? he is irrelevant. Anyone who hasnt learned the lessons of the past is doomed to repeat it. The lessons we have been taught is if we try to ignore whats going on in the world we have to fight world wars.

Who cares what Senator Graham says? why would i give two craps about what a Democrat senator who seems to think its some almighty revelation that we were moving troops into position to face iraq before we took them out?

As for Newt, i am going to have to agree with Merlin here. I dont think youve posted his entire comments. Of the three i respect him the most. But that doesnt mean if he says something there is no reason to think anymore.

So like i said who cares? Im of the opinion that its about time to get some fresh new blood into politics.

 

[freeandfun1]

Here is EVERYTHING Newt said. Notice that his comments did NOT end with "Second, what Pat said is true".

MR. GINGRICH: Well, let me go through the facts. President Bush is the first American president to actively advocate a Palestinian state but he said it has to be a Palestinian state based on democracy and a willingness to co-exist with Israel. Second, what Pat said is true but people have to listen carefully to what he said. He said basically if we would pull out of the biggest oil region on the planet, allow people like bin Laden to dominate the oil supply of the entire industrial world, give up the right to have female American soldiers go in places that bin Laden defines--and remember, the al-Qaeda irreconcilables define Spain as al-Jazeera and argue that they have a right to reclaim Spain, and some of them have demand that Rome become a Muslim city. So it's a little bit too easy to say, "Gee, if only we betrayed Israel and abandoned democracy in the Middle East and withdrew from the region, everything would work."

Try to describe a world in which for the last 35 or 40 years, the U.S. has not provided stability for world's oil supply and you're describing a world where you have $200 or $300 a barrel gasoline, and, by the way, where all the money ends up going into the pockets of people who hate us, who've already publicly said Europe comes next.

 

[dilloduck]

Interesting---stabilizing the price of oil and our alliance with Israel ARE the reason for war?

 

[freeandfun1]

Interesting---stabilizing the price of oil and our alliance with Israel ARE the reason for war?

Let us assume they are. In my opinion, 1) Stabilized oil prices are important to our nation and 2) We cannot turn our backs on Israel just because it causes us problems. To do that would send a message to others in the world that if somebody does not want us to support a specific country, then they can "terrorize" us into stopping. If we give in on Israel, then the next thing you know NK will be using SK radicals to fly planes into our buildings, Columbians will terrorize us insisting we give Panama back, Mexicans will start blowing up cafes trying to get Texas back, etc., etc.

If we give in, there will always be "A" group that thinks that terrorism will stop us or change our minds. Is that the message we want to send?

 

[dilloduck]

Let us assume they are. In my opinion, 1) Stabilized oil prices are important to our nation and 2) We cannot turn our backs on Israel just because it causes us problems. To do that would send a message to others in the world that if somebody does not want us to support a specific country, then they can "terrorize" us into stopping. If we give in on Israel, then the next thing you know NK will be using SK radicals to fly planes into our buildings, Columbians will terrorize us insisting we give Panama back, Mexicans will start blowing up cafes trying to get Texas back, etc., etc.

If we give in, there will always be "A" group that thinks that terrorism will stop us or change our minds. Is that the message we want to send?

Nope---I agree with your assessment 100% and glad we did what we did . I just find that our relationship with Israel to be a bit "shady?" maybe? So much is going on behind the scenes that I'm uncomfortable with it. I really am not sure how I feel about an alliance that is so surreptitous.

 

[freeandfun1]

Nope---I agree with your assessment 100% and glad we did what we did . I just find that our relationship with Israel to be a bit "shady?" maybe? So much is going on behind the scenes that I'm uncomfortable with it. I really am not sure how I feel about an alliance that is so surreptitious.

I understand. But the age old question is.....

What do we (the USA) do? In my opinion, we are too deep now to turn our direction. If we do, we will be seen as being weak. We cannot forget that during the Cold War, Israel was always reliable. Yes, many will point to the USS Liberty to debunk what I say, but OVERALL, they have been a reliable ally.

Israel has been facing what we are now facing ever since their inception and even before. So it is only natural that we would look to them, the most experienced in dealing with terrorism, for help and advice. However, as you allude, that puts us in even DEEPER with them. Based on the way things have gone over the years, and based on my believing the scriptures, I MUST assume that a "higher" power is directing all this. Again, many will point to that as a reason to debunk my comments, but I challenge them to offer a VALID counterpoint.

Regards,

 

[dilloduck]

I understand. But the age old question is.....

What do we (the USA) do? In my opinion, we are too deep now to turn our direction. If we do, we will be seen as being weak. We cannot forget that during the Cold War, Israel was always reliable. Yes, many will point to the USS Liberty to debunk what I say, but OVERALL, they have been a reliable ally.

Israel has been facing what we are now facing ever since their inception and even before. So it is only natural that we would look to them, the most experienced in dealing with terrorism, for help and advice. However, as you allude, that puts us in even DEEPER with them. Based on the way things have gone over the years, and based on my believing the scriptures, I MUST assume that a "higher" power is directing all this. Again, many will point to that as a reason to debunk my comments, but I challenge them to offer a VALID counterpoint.

Regards,

I'm not for dumping Israel as an ally yet being more of a secular person, I really don't have a dog in this hunt and I'm sure there are more like me. Perhaps we ARE trapped by circumstances but keeping the alliance so hush hush is a bit unfair to Americans don't ya think?

 

[Annie]

Also, who cares?

Who cares what Buchanan says? he is irrelevant. Anyone who hasnt learned the lessons of the past is doomed to repeat it. The lessons we have been taught is if we try to ignore whats going on in the world we have to fight world wars.

Who cares what Senator Graham says? why would i give two craps about what a Democrat senator who seems to think its some almighty revelation that we were moving troops into position to face iraq before we took them out?

As for Newt, i am going to have to agree with Merlin here. I dont think youve posted his entire comments. Of the three i respect him the most. But that doesnt mean if he says something there is no reason to think anymore.

So like i said who cares? Im of the opinion that its about time to get some fresh new blood into politics.

I listened to Buchanan this morning on C-Span. A Southern caller, was drooling over him, saying he should have run for President. To his credit, he said he tried, but most Americans seemed to disagree with him.

He could have started a third party, IF he had not let anti-Semitism get in his way.

 

[yorker]

It seems to me that dispite PB having a very sharp mind and some good points his overall theme seem to be: Swarthy people can go to hell.

 

[Annie]

It seems to me that dispite PB having a very sharp mind and some good points his overall theme seem to be: Swarthy people can go to hell.

Have to disagree with you Yorker. Seems his message is: Israelis go to hell. Muslims, we do not support Israel, we need the oil. Carry on...

 

[freeandfun1]

I'm not for dumping Israel as an ally yet being more of a secular person, I really don't have a dog in this hunt and I'm sure there are more like me. Perhaps we ARE trapped by circumstances but keeping the alliance so hush hush is a bit unfair to Americans don't ya think?

Yes, I do think keeping is so "hush-hush" is not right. However, it really isn't that hushed. Many in the high-tech industries and in the military industries know what Israel is capable of and we know that WE often benefit from their military spending. They are able to create stuff using US $$ (grants, etc.) that we cannot get funded here. So in many ways, I view our relationship as symbiotic. We need them and they need us.

I don't have a horse in this race either. I am not any more ready for the prophecies to be fulfilled than you. Perhaps I enjoy this life too much to envision a "paradise" in heaven. Perhaps comfort is more, well, comfortable.

Historically, it IS obvious to me though that our mainly Christian Presidents have viewed Israel as being very important. Even Truman saw recognizing Israel as being important because of the scriptures.

 

[William Joyce]

It seems to me that dispite PB having a very sharp mind and some good points his overall theme seem to be: Swarthy people can go to hell.

Yeah! I love it!

Now, about the relationship with Israel being one of the main causes of the war. 1,000 Americans have now died for this war. We are owed an explanation and an honest debate over the role of Israel. But we do not get it. This is because Jews run our nation and white men (with the slight exception of Pat) are too chicken to say it.

That's not patriotism. That's cowardice.

 

[dilloduck]

Yeah! I love it!

Now, about the relationship with Israel being one of the main causes of the war. 1,000 Americans have now died for this war. We are owed an explanation and an honest debate over the role of Israel. But we do not get it. This is because Jews run our nation and white men (with the slight exception of Pat) are too chicken to say it.

That's not patriotism. That's cowardice.

I'm really not sure we are owed an explanation but I sure would like to hear some discussion. Is the JADL that powerful that it can stifle honest, open discussion regarding Israel? I'm not the "white power" guy that 'ole Bill is but there can be no doubt that this issue is avoided by both parties. WHY?