Meet The Press: GOP Whacko on Health Care.

I'm not certain that this point is cogent for the post re: who will control the system, but it is clear that the Democrat bills put control in the hands of politicians, not doctors.

Defend Your Health Care

PC - From your link:

"When you file your taxes, if you can't prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you'll be fined thousands of dollars -- as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size -- and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168). [anyone who has had their home hazard insurance or automobile insurance lapse knows how this one works - you get a notice and a bill for a large amount of money - and upon examination of all the documents you become aware that you really have no choice in the matter. Then you start shopping for something better, or begin providing proof of insurance that you actually already had in effect, so they may have duplicated insurance you might already have and for a time you are paying for both or for a very high priced policy of insurance. But don't worry, you'll be treated "fairly" by the government.]

....The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay. [This sounds good to some, one supposes, but to reduce everyone's consumption will have to result in denying certain groups certain medical services to make the system "cost effective." As Senator McConnell said on Meet The Press: "Costs and access"; those are the key issues, not some bureaucrat's idea of "fairness" of distribution]

Nowhere does the legislation say how much health plans will cost, but a family of four is eligible for some government assistance until their household income reaches $88,000 (House bill, p. 137). If you earn more than that, you'll have to pay the cost no matter how high it goes.

The price tag for this legislation is a whopping $1.04 trillion to $1.6 trillion (Congressional Budget Office estimates). Half of the tab comes from tax increases on individuals earning $280,000 or more, and these new taxes will double in 2012 unless savings exceed predicted costs (House bill, p. 199).

The rest of the cost is paid for by cutting seniors' health benefits under Medicare.
[Don't care about this yet? Well you may before you realize it...someone you know, a parent, an aunt or uncle will soon be affected by this provision. Not you...? And SS and Medicare won't be there when you reach that age anyway, so what does it matter to you? That's just denial. It will affect you sooner than you think, and it won't be for the better.]

There's plenty of waste in Medicare, but the Congressional Budget Office estimates only 1 percent of the savings under the legislation will be from curbing waste, fraud and abuse. That means the rest will likely come from reducing what patients get. [so what will you need when you reach 65 that you don't need at 35 or 45 or 55? Can you think of anything...?]

One troubling provision of the House bill compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care (House bill, p. 425-430). The sessions cover highly sensitive matters such as whether to receive antibiotics and "the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration." [Ahhhhh.....here we go. The same end of life choice"" to match the beginning of life "choice"...to be or not to be. But if you think it's the obligation of the old to get out of the way of the young, this one just might be for you.]

This mandate invites abuse, and seniors could easily be pushed to refuse care. Do we really want government involved in such deeply personal issues?
 
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gawd, I laughed so hard (thank you Mitch McConnell), and if it is true that laughter is the best medicine, I say allow more time on network televison and media for GOP voices.

----

On today's Meet The Press, Senator Mitch McConnell (leader of GOP), was asked about what a few experts said about the US having the 'best' medical care. The Senator replied that there are more experts and that the American public believes we have the best system. :lol: :lol: :lol:

...and in other news the American public thinks Coke is better than Pepsi. :lol:

---

When confronted with the facts that there are millions of Americans who are uninsured, the comedic voice of the GOP mentioned millions get medical care...they are just uninsured.

All the GOP leadership has to offer is an argument that (in Mitch's words) we only need to repair 'access and cost' in order to fix our broken system. WTF, what is there besides 'access and cost' when it comes to an insurance plan?

:cuckoo:



We know who the real kook is....you:cuckoo:
 
...

Who will control the system? Doctors and patients, or politicians and regulators? That's the crux of this year's health-care debate. The Republican proposal makes the choice clear.

Choice? Yeah right...another talking points memo? WTF is wrong with you?

Please explain what you believe to be untrue about that statement. Take a lesson on what not to do from you buddy bobo. If you're gonna say everyone else wrong, at least back it up with something other shit as moronic as accussing people of using talking points.

any asshole (take you for example) can take quotes out of context and argue the merit of their validity, but to string 'em all together and make a coherent and rational argument...

:eusa_whistle:

What you bolded is a question. How exactly is it being taken out of context? A perfectly valid one regardless. Are you so naive as to believe if government runs the system, they aren't going to have a pretty significant say over your health care choices?
 
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I am from Massachusetts. I am talking about the stages. The reason there is hemorrhaging is that the state under Governor Romney (GOP), chose to delay the payment parts of the plan.

IS ANYBODY FUCKING HOME IN THERE? We've been telling you for who knows how long, that if you let governmet do this for you, government will fuck it up for you and low and behold government fucked it up for you.

Single payer will rule one day. Get on board or stay out in the cold. Your choice asswipe.

What is your position on monopolies?
 
Perhaps you can tell us which of the three currently proposed plans in process has a plan for increasing the the number of doctors to meet the increased demand this 'change we can believe in' will bring.

I am not now nor have I ever been a believer in any nonsense like change...either the kind you can believe in or not...so go sit down.

I have no idea as there aren't any final plans yet.

Assuming you are just being sarcastic, I don't think anyone is opposed to improving the very things McConnell is referring to. It's just that dems are horseshit problem solvers. A government 'option' for insurance won't accomplish either of those things.

And I'm pretty sure you do know that none of the plans out there address the issue, in economic terms, of quantity supplied, because quite frankly that should be the very first thing that is discussed and there hasn't been so much of a peep about it. Before you go criticizing the right for stating the obvious perhaps you should inquire with the dems, the people that want this passed so badly, why they have yet to even identify the obvious.

And the Republicans plan is for more of what we have now. And we have seen their problem solving abilities on display from 2001 through 2008.

I really don't see the problem here. The experimental work has been done. Europe, the wealthier Asian nations, and even little Costa Rica.
 
Excellent, succinct disposal of the bogus "50 million uninsured" fabrication. I guess is depends on what the meaning of 'is' is.

“…when one digs deep enough, one finds that only 8 million folks can be classified as "chronically uninsured;" that's still a problem, of course, but a much more manageable one, and puts the lie to the canard that our system is irretrievably broken.”
InsureBlog: Vindicated!

“Once you whittle it down, you start to realize that the number of hard-core uninsured who are citizens is in fact fairly small — perhaps half the reported 47 million or less. (about 7.6%)”
IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- The '47 Million Uninsured' Myth

So now that that is laid to rest, the question becomes, is everyone else that is insured still paying too much?

I'm not exactly certain how firmly your tongue is place in your cheek, but allow me to make a comment on costs.

A TV ad by Health Care for America Now asks, "What if we stripped away the 13 billion dollar insurance company profits?" Our answer: It wouldn't make much of a difference. The ad fails to mention that the figure represents six-tenths of 1 percent of all health care spending. And profits wouldn't necessarily be eliminated or reduced by the creation of a public insurance option.
The HCAN ad features a graphic that shows a monthly premium bill rising to more than $600. But that's double the average monthly bill for a family with employer-sponsored coverage.
But the average monthly payment for workers with employer-sponsored coverage is a more modest $280 for a family policy.
FactCheck.org: Pushing for a Public Plan


Here's a little quiz: what about all of the money that the healthcare CEO's get?
Answer: CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending.

How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

An op-ed piece in the Providence Journal about huge pay packages for corporate CEOs mentioned the breath-taking $124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. This figure can also be found in the Forbes Special Report on CEO compensation. Here one can find that other managed care CEOs got less fabulous, but still formidable compensation, e.g., Howard Phanstiel, PacifiCare, 3.38 million; Edward Hanway, Cigna, $13.3 million; John Rowe, Aetna, $22.2 million; and Larry Glassrock, Wellpoint, $25.0 million.
McGuire's compensation was so large as to take a measurable part of this large company's net income (5%). Or to look at it from a stock-holder's (and hence, an company owner's) viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed as a dividend, it would amount to about a $0.20 per share dividend. (The current dividend is $0.03 per share.) (See company data available from Forbes as well.)
To look at it from a United employee's viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed to employees, each of the 40,000 employees could have received a bonus larger than $3000.

Health Care Renewal: How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?
 
Take corporations,employers and government out of the equation and I truly believe most problems would go away. My plan...

1. Repeal the HMO Act of 1973 which requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses, but not individuals, to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the insane coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

2. Repeal the ERISA Act of 1974 which is a federal law that sets minimum standards for retirement and health benefit plans in private industry. This attracted special interests to insert things from wet nurses to maternity in group plans,these minimal standards have raised costs and took away our freedom to choose the coverage we want as individuals.

3. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for individuals to buy their own insurance,be it comprehensive or high deductible catastrophic or Medical Savings Accounts.

4. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for "negative outcomes" insurance that people can purchase prior to an operation that would remove costly litigation yet preserve trial by jury we hold so dear in this country,it could drive down liability costs and the consumer would be able to set the value they want on their property which is their body.

5. Introduce Tax Credits for people who take a large amount of prescription medicine,this could help those in need without creating bureaucracy such as Medicare Part "D". We could also do this for people who take care of their parents or children to relieve burdens.

6. Remove any limitations on Medical Savings type accounts. This would expand access,it's the fastest growing market there is and could grow faster without the constraints govt. places on them.

7. Allow insurance companies to sell nationally and allow all insurance companies to participate, Mutual Companies,non profits,Property and Casualty,you name it,open up the competition.

8. Give huge tax credits to companies wanting to open Doc in a Box type clinics in towns,in the Wal Marts,Wal Greens and Targets nation wide. This would releive pressure on ER rooms, a lot of times a child may get sick late at night and the only place to go is ER,this could alleviate that since these type places are open at night and on weekends.
 
...

Who will control the system? Doctors and patients, or politicians and regulators? That's the crux of this year's health-care debate. The Republican proposal makes the choice clear.

Choice? Yeah right...another talking points memo? WTF is wrong with you?

Please explain what you believe to be untrue about that statement. Take a lesson on what not to do from you buddy bobo. If you're gonna say everyone else wrong, at least back it up with something other shit as moronic as accussing people of using talking points.

Today the people that control the system get bonuses for how many people that they can deny access to. Whether through the pre-existing clause, or some fine print. So, would you rather have some multi-million a year income CEO, whose bonuses are based on how much profit the company makes, or a civil servant that is making a reasonable salary, make a decision on a very expensive, critically needed medical intervention? Guess which is likely to decide in your favor?

The nations with real Health Care Systems have long average lifespans, and much lower infant mortality rates than we do. That is the real measure of a Health Care System. The wingnuts here wish to measure the health of our system by the size of the bank accounts of the people running the system, presently. And, by that measure, it is very healthy. It is just the American people that have a health problem.
 
Lots of our health problems are a result of our lifestyles,imho. I would bet we have more fast food joints than the next 10 economies combined,1 in 3 of us are overweight and 1 in 5 are morbidly obese,including my fat ass. I'm on a program but idiots like me have contributed to our shitty stats in a lot of areas,again,imho.
 
So now that that is laid to rest, the question becomes, is everyone else that is insured still paying too much?

I'm not exactly certain how firmly your tongue is place in your cheek, but allow me to make a comment on costs.

A TV ad by Health Care for America Now asks, "What if we stripped away the 13 billion dollar insurance company profits?" Our answer: It wouldn't make much of a difference. The ad fails to mention that the figure represents six-tenths of 1 percent of all health care spending. And profits wouldn't necessarily be eliminated or reduced by the creation of a public insurance option.
The HCAN ad features a graphic that shows a monthly premium bill rising to more than $600. But that's double the average monthly bill for a family with employer-sponsored coverage.
But the average monthly payment for workers with employer-sponsored coverage is a more modest $280 for a family policy.
FactCheck.org: Pushing for a Public Plan


Here's a little quiz: what about all of the money that the healthcare CEO's get?
Answer: CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending.

How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

An op-ed piece in the Providence Journal about huge pay packages for corporate CEOs mentioned the breath-taking $124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. This figure can also be found in the Forbes Special Report on CEO compensation. Here one can find that other managed care CEOs got less fabulous, but still formidable compensation, e.g., Howard Phanstiel, PacifiCare, 3.38 million; Edward Hanway, Cigna, $13.3 million; John Rowe, Aetna, $22.2 million; and Larry Glassrock, Wellpoint, $25.0 million.
McGuire's compensation was so large as to take a measurable part of this large company's net income (5%). Or to look at it from a stock-holder's (and hence, an company owner's) viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed as a dividend, it would amount to about a $0.20 per share dividend. (The current dividend is $0.03 per share.) (See company data available from Forbes as well.)
To look at it from a United employee's viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed to employees, each of the 40,000 employees could have received a bonus larger than $3000.

Health Care Renewal: How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

Where to start, where to start.

1. Let's begin with the figures in the fact check post. "CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending." Do you have a disagreement with the figure? If so, what is your figure?

2. Unlike you, my syndicalist friend, I think that compensation should be determined by an agreement between those giving the compensation, and those accepting the compensation.

3. But I see your point: Off hand, I can think of one individual whose compensation is way "beyond his pay grade."

4. Finally, let's review the meaning of 'relative,' as in "too much or just right." Compared to what?

"An op-ed piece in the Zimbabwe Journal complained about huge pay packages for Mr. Old Rocks, and was shocked, and mentioned the breath-taking total compensation he gets in the United States."

Now that I think about it, I better reconsider my post, as I am convinced of the legitimacy of the Zimbabwe Journal OpEd.
 
Take corporations,employers and government out of the equation and I truly believe most problems would go away. My plan...

1. Repeal the HMO Act of 1973 which requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses, but not individuals, to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the insane coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

2. Repeal the ERISA Act of 1974 which is a federal law that sets minimum standards for retirement and health benefit plans in private industry. This attracted special interests to insert things from wet nurses to maternity in group plans,these minimal standards have raised costs and took away our freedom to choose the coverage we want as individuals.

3. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for individuals to buy their own insurance,be it comprehensive or high deductible catastrophic or Medical Savings Accounts.

4. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for "negative outcomes" insurance that people can purchase prior to an operation that would remove costly litigation yet preserve trial by jury we hold so dear in this country,it could drive down liability costs and the consumer would be able to set the value they want on their property which is their body.

5. Introduce Tax Credits for people who take a large amount of prescription medicine,this could help those in need without creating bureaucracy such as Medicare Part "D". We could also do this for people who take care of their parents or children to relieve burdens.

6. Remove any limitations on Medical Savings type accounts. This would expand access,it's the fastest growing market there is and could grow faster without the constraints govt. places on them.

7. Allow insurance companies to sell nationally and allow all insurance companies to participate, Mutual Companies,non profits,Property and Casualty,you name it,open up the competition.

8. Give huge tax credits to companies wanting to open Doc in a Box type clinics in towns,in the Wal Marts,Wal Greens and Targets nation wide. This would releive pressure on ER rooms, a lot of times a child may get sick late at night and the only place to go is ER,this could alleviate that since these type places are open at night and on weekends.

Pretty thorough. Nice.

Take a look at this:
"The U.S. Census Bureau shows that of the 47 million people identified as "uninsured," 14 million are already eligible for government programs such as Medicaid and SCHIP (for children) and simply need to sign up. Another 10 million have household incomes over $75,000. That leaves 23.7 million people who need help affording insurance, not 47 million.
Food debit cards help 27 million people buy food, similar to the number who need help buying health coverage. In all fifty states, debit card technology has transformed the federal food stamp program, which used to be notorious for fraud and abuse. (Only 2 percent of card users are found to be ineligible, according to the General Accounting Office.) Cards are loaded with a specific dollar amount monthly, depending on family size and income, and allow cardholders to shop anywhere. The same strategy could be adapted to provide purchasing power to families who need help buying high-deductible health coverage. It's what all Americans used to buy (see chart 5), and it's all that's needed for families with moderate incomes, who can afford a routine doctor visit. "
Downgrading Health Care
 
Take corporations,employers and government out of the equation and I truly believe most problems would go away. My plan...

1. Repeal the HMO Act of 1973 which requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses, but not individuals, to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the insane coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

2. Repeal the ERISA Act of 1974 which is a federal law that sets minimum standards for retirement and health benefit plans in private industry. This attracted special interests to insert things from wet nurses to maternity in group plans,these minimal standards have raised costs and took away our freedom to choose the coverage we want as individuals.

3. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for individuals to buy their own insurance,be it comprehensive or high deductible catastrophic or Medical Savings Accounts.

4. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for "negative outcomes" insurance that people can purchase prior to an operation that would remove costly litigation yet preserve trial by jury we hold so dear in this country,it could drive down liability costs and the consumer would be able to set the value they want on their property which is their body.

5. Introduce Tax Credits for people who take a large amount of prescription medicine,this could help those in need without creating bureaucracy such as Medicare Part "D". We could also do this for people who take care of their parents or children to relieve burdens.

6. Remove any limitations on Medical Savings type accounts. This would expand access,it's the fastest growing market there is and could grow faster without the constraints govt. places on them.

7. Allow insurance companies to sell nationally and allow all insurance companies to participate, Mutual Companies,non profits,Property and Casualty,you name it,open up the competition.

8. Give huge tax credits to companies wanting to open Doc in a Box type clinics in towns,in the Wal Marts,Wal Greens and Targets nation wide. This would releive pressure on ER rooms, a lot of times a child may get sick late at night and the only place to go is ER,this could alleviate that since these type places are open at night and on weekends.

Pretty thorough. Nice.

Take a look at this:
"The U.S. Census Bureau shows that of the 47 million people identified as "uninsured," 14 million are already eligible for government programs such as Medicaid and SCHIP (for children) and simply need to sign up. Another 10 million have household incomes over $75,000. That leaves 23.7 million people who need help affording insurance, not 47 million.
Food debit cards help 27 million people buy food, similar to the number who need help buying health coverage. In all fifty states, debit card technology has transformed the federal food stamp program, which used to be notorious for fraud and abuse. (Only 2 percent of card users are found to be ineligible, according to the General Accounting Office.) Cards are loaded with a specific dollar amount monthly, depending on family size and income, and allow cardholders to shop anywhere. The same strategy could be adapted to provide purchasing power to families who need help buying high-deductible health coverage. It's what all Americans used to buy (see chart 5), and it's all that's needed for families with moderate incomes, who can afford a routine doctor visit. "
Downgrading Health Care

Thanks for the link, I've even seen the true numbers even lower when the 18-40 age group that is healthy,that can afford health insurance is factored in.
 
I'm not exactly certain how firmly your tongue is place in your cheek, but allow me to make a comment on costs.

A TV ad by Health Care for America Now asks, "What if we stripped away the 13 billion dollar insurance company profits?" Our answer: It wouldn't make much of a difference. The ad fails to mention that the figure represents six-tenths of 1 percent of all health care spending. And profits wouldn't necessarily be eliminated or reduced by the creation of a public insurance option.
The HCAN ad features a graphic that shows a monthly premium bill rising to more than $600. But that's double the average monthly bill for a family with employer-sponsored coverage.
But the average monthly payment for workers with employer-sponsored coverage is a more modest $280 for a family policy.
FactCheck.org: Pushing for a Public Plan


Here's a little quiz: what about all of the money that the healthcare CEO's get?
Answer: CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending.

How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

An op-ed piece in the Providence Journal about huge pay packages for corporate CEOs mentioned the breath-taking $124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. This figure can also be found in the Forbes Special Report on CEO compensation. Here one can find that other managed care CEOs got less fabulous, but still formidable compensation, e.g., Howard Phanstiel, PacifiCare, 3.38 million; Edward Hanway, Cigna, $13.3 million; John Rowe, Aetna, $22.2 million; and Larry Glassrock, Wellpoint, $25.0 million.
McGuire's compensation was so large as to take a measurable part of this large company's net income (5%). Or to look at it from a stock-holder's (and hence, an company owner's) viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed as a dividend, it would amount to about a $0.20 per share dividend. (The current dividend is $0.03 per share.) (See company data available from Forbes as well.)
To look at it from a United employee's viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed to employees, each of the 40,000 employees could have received a bonus larger than $3000.

Health Care Renewal: How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

Where to start, where to start.

1. Let's begin with the figures in the fact check post. "CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending." Do you have a disagreement with the figure? If so, what is your figure?

2. Unlike you, my syndicalist friend, I think that compensation should be determined by an agreement between those giving the compensation, and those accepting the compensation.

3. But I see your point: Off hand, I can think of one individual whose compensation is way "beyond his pay grade."

4. Finally, let's review the meaning of 'relative,' as in "too much or just right." Compared to what?

"An op-ed piece in the Zimbabwe Journal complained about huge pay packages for Mr. Old Rocks, and was shocked, and mentioned the breath-taking total compensation he gets in the United States."

Now that I think about it, I better reconsider my post, as I am convinced of the legitimacy of the Zimbabwe Journal OpEd.

1. What about VP's, Directors and all other white collar salaries and bonus'? This sounds like the same lie you guys told the last 8 years when we said CEO pay was out of control while they were laying labor off and cutting wages and benefits.

2. Medical malpractice only accounts for 1/2 of 1%, but you guys on the right like to talk about it like it is the key to healthcare reform.

3. What if those giving the compensation are the same ones getting it?
 
I'm not certain that this point is cogent for the post re: who will control the system, but it is clear that the Democrat bills put control in the hands of politicians, not doctors.

Defend Your Health Care

PC - From your link:

....The goal is to reduce everyone's consumption of health care and to ensure that people have the same health-care experience, regardless of ability to pay. ...
....Half of the tab comes from tax increases on individuals earning $280,000 or more, and these new taxes will double in 2012 unless savings exceed predicted costs....

The rest of the cost is paid for by cutting seniors' health benefits under Medicare.
One troubling provision of the House bill compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care (House bill, p. 425-430). The sessions cover highly sensitive matters such as whether to receive antibiotics and "the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration."

This mandate invites abuse, and seniors could easily be pushed to refuse care. Do we really want government involved in such deeply personal issues?

Lets look at how things are progressing in our nearest model for healthcare, Canada:

FROM: Quebec Physicians Propose Legalized Euthanasia
Life Site ^ | July 16, 2009 | Patrick B. Craine


“july 16, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In what one prominent euthanasia opponent has called "a straw man argument," the Quebec College of Physicians is proposing that euthanasia be legalized "as part of the appropriate care in certain particular circumstances." The Globe and Mail broke the story today, and at the same time launched an online poll asking its readership, "Do you support the legalization of assisted suicide?"

After having examined the issue for three years, the College's task force on ethics concluded that Quebec society has grown to the point where it can now tolerate euthanasia. "The question here is to decide whether a drop in dosage or an increase in dosage constitutes a criminal act," said College secretary, Dr. Yves Robert to the Globe and Mail. . . . .

Euthanasia Prevention Coalition Executive Director Alex Schadenberg told LifeSiteNews.com, however, that the circumstances to which Dr. Robert refers would not be euthanasia at all, and in fact, if properly conducted, is within the law. "To use large doses of analgesics to kill pain is not euthanasia, it's actually, in certain circumstances, proper care," he said.

"So why are they bringing this up?" he asked. "I think what they're doing is they're trying to give, it appears, unless there's some information that's missing, it appears they're trying to give us euthanasia through the back door." . . . .

"It is euthanasia," he said, "if the physician just gives the patient a lethal dose of analgesic with the intention of causing the patients death. ... If the Quebec College of Physicians allows for physicians to lethally inject their patients with overdoses they will be erasing the distinction between caring for people and killing people. People will lose faith in the ethics of their physicians and they will fear entering palliative care because the lines between caring and killing will be blurred." . . . .

The College claims adamantly that their position does not include support for assisted suicide, but Schadenberg is not convinced. "We should not be surprised," he said in his e-mail, "that the timing of the Quebec College of Physicians decision will take place at approximately the same time as Bill C-384 [to legalize assisted suicide] goes to a Second Reading vote."

In his e-mail, Schadenberg has called on pro-lifers to vote 'No' in the Globe and Mail poll regarding assisted suicide. At time of writing, 73% had voted 'Yes', with a total of 8359 votes.”

If we all agree that Canada is a “compassionate society”, seemingly less driven by financial incentives and more compassionate than our own, and they could intentionally bring euthanasia in through the “back door” then what about our own society which prides itself and claims as a goal a more efficient and economically driven policy right from the start up? Willingness to pay taxes, no matter how much, is our patriotic duty, and inasmuch as it will save the system money and make it more efficient, it will be our patriotic duty to 'move on' when we become a burden. Consider, though, how that will preserve wealth for heirs and inheritance taxes for the government.
 
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How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

An op-ed piece in the Providence Journal about huge pay packages for corporate CEOs mentioned the breath-taking $124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. This figure can also be found in the Forbes Special Report on CEO compensation. Here one can find that other managed care CEOs got less fabulous, but still formidable compensation, e.g., Howard Phanstiel, PacifiCare, 3.38 million; Edward Hanway, Cigna, $13.3 million; John Rowe, Aetna, $22.2 million; and Larry Glassrock, Wellpoint, $25.0 million.
McGuire's compensation was so large as to take a measurable part of this large company's net income (5%). Or to look at it from a stock-holder's (and hence, an company owner's) viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed as a dividend, it would amount to about a $0.20 per share dividend. (The current dividend is $0.03 per share.) (See company data available from Forbes as well.)
To look at it from a United employee's viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed to employees, each of the 40,000 employees could have received a bonus larger than $3000.

Health Care Renewal: How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

Where to start, where to start.

1. Let's begin with the figures in the fact check post. "CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending." Do you have a disagreement with the figure? If so, what is your figure?

2. Unlike you, my syndicalist friend, I think that compensation should be determined by an agreement between those giving the compensation, and those accepting the compensation.

3. But I see your point: Off hand, I can think of one individual whose compensation is way "beyond his pay grade."

4. Finally, let's review the meaning of 'relative,' as in "too much or just right." Compared to what?

"An op-ed piece in the Zimbabwe Journal complained about huge pay packages for Mr. Old Rocks, and was shocked, and mentioned the breath-taking total compensation he gets in the United States."

Now that I think about it, I better reconsider my post, as I am convinced of the legitimacy of the Zimbabwe Journal OpEd.

1. What about VP's, Directors and all other white collar salaries and bonus'? This sounds like the same lie you guys told the last 8 years when we said CEO pay was out of control while they were laying labor off and cutting wages and benefits.

2. Medical malpractice only accounts for 1/2 of 1%, but you guys on the right like to talk about it like it is the key to healthcare reform.

3. What if those giving the compensation are the same ones getting it?

First of all, Nixon, I cannot seem to lay my hand on that part of the Constitution (sorry, Madison) that allows government officials to fix the salary of folks in the private sector. If I could, yours would be the first.

I, for one, have not only not made that argument, medical malpractice, but have asked for the figure re: costs of malpractice insurance, malpractice awards. Can you provide a link, or is this a figment of your overworked imagination.

How does the compensation situation get to be your business, Karl?

Let's go over the figures one more time:

" Also, it’s worth noting that while these figures sound like a lot of money — and few would dispute the fact that health insurance company CEOs make healthy salaries — these numbers represent a very small fraction of total health care spending in the U.S. In 2007, national health care expenditures totaled $2.2 trillion. Health insurance profits of nearly $13 billion make up 0.6 percent of that. CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending."
FactCheck.org: Pushing for a Public Plan

So, let's quote the crypto-Republican shill, that would be you, CEO compensation "only accounts for 5 thousanths of 1%, but you guys on the right like to talk about it like it is the key to healthcare reform".
 
Today the people that control the system get bonuses for how many people that they can deny access to. Whether through the pre-existing clause, or some fine print. So, would you rather have some multi-million a year income CEO, whose bonuses are based on how much profit the company makes, or a civil servant that is making a reasonable salary, make a decision on a very expensive, critically needed medical intervention? Guess which is likely to decide in your favor?

I would agree in pinciple with that. Where I diverge is that a problem with the medical insurance industry doesn't translate into the only solution being government running the system. And for the record what about most anything almost any congressman has done even remotely suggests they are trustworthy and/or would efficiently run health care?

The nations with real Health Care Systems have long average lifespans, and much lower infant mortality rates than we do. That is the real measure of a Health Care System. The wingnuts here wish to measure the health of our system by the size of the bank accounts of the people running the system, presently. And, by that measure, it is very healthy. It is just the American people that have a health problem.

You aren't this dumb are you? You believe life span is a by product of a countries health care system? Nevermind. Of course you do, you're a moron lib who doesn't believe the individual and their choices might have much of anything to do with their life span.
 

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