Medicaid Eligibility

[WillowTree]

Look at rolling your own ... less than half that no matter where you are. The packs you pay more for the packaging and advertising than for the actual tobacco. I buy tobacco, filters, and rollers .. total cost is 30-50 a month at about a pack a day (maybe more). The funny thing is that I have been cutting back since I started, not because of those false fears of health effects or even cost, just because I don't like addiction (tobacco addiction taught me how bad addiction was, so I never even thought to try the harder drugs thankfully) so I have been resisting it more each day.

how did your thinking processess get so convoluted?

*rae* What was this comment toward?

The funny thing is that I have been cutting back since I started, not because of those false fears of health effects or even cost, just because I don't like addiction (tobacco addiction taught me how bad addiction was, so I never even thought to try the harder drugs thankfully) so I have been resisting it more each day.

 

[KittenKoder]

how did your thinking processess get so convoluted?

*rae* What was this comment toward?

The funny thing is that I have been cutting back since I started, not because of those false fears of health effects or even cost, just because I don't like addiction (tobacco addiction taught me how bad addiction was, so I never even thought to try the harder drugs thankfully) so I have been resisting it more each day.

So it's wrong to NOT do drugs ... or is it wrong to learn from your own mistakes to avoid making worse ones ... perhaps it's wrong to admit the mistakes?

Or are you just focusing on a particular part of that quote and are just trying to be obtuse?

 

[WillowTree]

*rae* What was this comment toward?

The funny thing is that I have been cutting back since I started, not because of those false fears of health effects or even cost, just because I don't like addiction (tobacco addiction taught me how bad addiction was, so I never even thought to try the harder drugs thankfully) so I have been resisting it more each day.

So it's wrong to NOT do drugs ... or is it wrong to learn from your own mistakes to avoid making worse ones ... perhaps it's wrong to admit the mistakes?

Or are you just focusing on a particular part of that quote and are just trying to be obtuse?

you are delusional if you think the fears of health effects are false.. just plain DUmb,, but then I've told you that before hey?

 

[johnrocks]

Also, what about those poor people who waste money on cars.

Then there's TVs and funky boxes for them.

What about cable and internet and phone?

How about those who waste money on liquor?

Then junk food?

Then those who waste money on clothes ... bastards don't need 50 pairs of shoes.

Coffee to.

Oh and don't forget those who waste money on makeup (400 a month easy for many).

Then the diet crap?

... it would never end.

If they are paying for it great but nothing irks me like seeing someone buying cigarettes,lottery tickets and beer yet pay for their groceries with food stamps(or the electronic card they have)

Why ... seriously, tell me what the difference is between what "irks you" and buying a brand new plasma TV with the money?

That would irk me too if they are getting tax money. If you have enough for any of that stuff, why you need government assistance?

 

[johnrocks]

So it's wrong to NOT do drugs ... or is it wrong to learn from your own mistakes to avoid making worse ones ... perhaps it's wrong to admit the mistakes?

Or are you just focusing on a particular part of that quote and are just trying to be obtuse?

you are delusional if you think the fears of health effects are false.. just plain DUmb,, but then I've told you that before hey?

Yep and lung cancer or COPD is no laughing matter. My Dad died from Lung Cancer, I wouldn't wish that illness on my worse enemy let alone a loved one.

 

[KittenKoder]

So it's wrong to NOT do drugs ... or is it wrong to learn from your own mistakes to avoid making worse ones ... perhaps it's wrong to admit the mistakes?

Or are you just focusing on a particular part of that quote and are just trying to be obtuse?

you are delusional if you think the fears of health effects are false.. just plain DUmb,, but then I've told you that before hey?

Yep and lung cancer or COPD is no laughing matter. My Dad died from Lung Cancer, I wouldn't wish that illness on my worse enemy let alone a loved one.

Problem is ... the connections made to illnesses are all circumstantial ... period.

 

[johnrocks]

you are delusional if you think the fears of health effects are false.. just plain DUmb,, but then I've told you that before hey?

Yep and lung cancer or COPD is no laughing matter. My Dad died from Lung Cancer, I wouldn't wish that illness on my worse enemy let alone a loved one.

Problem is ... the connections made to illnesses are all circumstantial ... period.

I smoked cigarettes for 30 years, far be it for me to tell anyone what to do however I never once thought pulling smoke filled with chemicals into my airways was not ignorant nor unhealthy, I just pray each day I dodged the proverbial bullet.

 

[WillowTree]

you are delusional if you think the fears of health effects are false.. just plain DUmb,, but then I've told you that before hey?

Yep and lung cancer or COPD is no laughing matter. My Dad died from Lung Cancer, I wouldn't wish that illness on my worse enemy let alone a loved one.

Problem is ... the connections made to illnesses are all circumstantial ... period.

then keep on smoking delusional darlin,, keep on smoking.. funny how you can be your own worst enemy!

 

[KittenKoder]

Yep and lung cancer or COPD is no laughing matter. My Dad died from Lung Cancer, I wouldn't wish that illness on my worse enemy let alone a loved one.

Problem is ... the connections made to illnesses are all circumstantial ... period.

then keep on smoking delusional darlin,, keep on smoking.. funny how you can be your own worst enemy!

Actually ... according to medical studies, the medications I am suppose to take for mental issues have the same effects as nicotine ... however, based on the side effects and risks of both, nicotine is safer and less damaging than the prescription meds. So if it was for health smoking is actually healthier than all the other options.

 

[KittenKoder]

Hell ... that's why I wish they would make it a controlled substance, then I could have it all paid for by my medical insurance.

 

[Luissa]

Proposal:

People who are eligible for Medicaid should lose their eligibility if they smoke.

Discuss.


(I'd prefer not to discuss whether or not Medicaid should exist, but rather if poor people, who have enough money to waste on cigarettes, should be given government funds for their healthcare.)

actually if you think about it you shouldn't because like in my state most of the taxes on cigarettes go to funding medicaid. The cigarettes here just went up 95 cents this year to fund medicaid and about 60 cents last year. So in reality when they buy their cigarettes they are paying for their health care.

 

[Luissa]

Twelve states—Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Washington—and the District of Columbia have a tax at or above $2.00 per pack. Eleven states—mostly in the southeastern United States—have a tax of less than 50 cents per pack.
State Overview


So in my state in 2008 not counting the new cigarette tax you paid an average of $2 a pack towards medicaid/taxes so if spent on average $5 a day on cigarettes that would mean you pay $60 a month towards medicaid and $720 for the year. Than you take away the people who pay for their own insurance but are still supporting medicaid through their taxes, I think smokers are giving their fair share of money to cover their medical insurance. With an average of 700,000 which is a low number of people smoking in my state times that by $720 a year. I think smokers are paying their fair share towards medicaid.

 

[xotoxi]

I'm so freaking glad I quit smoking,, almost ten years ago..

I never even touched the stuff ever. I've never held a lit cigarette.

I'm allergic to the smoke and have asthma.

I guess I'm lucky.

But I empathize with those that are addicted and as a physician try to encourage them to quit.

Anyone try Chantix?

 

[xotoxi]

The funny thing is that I have been cutting back since I started, not because of those false fears of health effects or even cost, just because I don't like addiction (tobacco addiction taught me how bad addiction was, so I never even thought to try the harder drugs thankfully) so I have been resisting it more each day.

Three questions:

What do you mean by "false fears of health effects"? Are you saying that the negative health effects of smoking cigarettes is a myth?

Do you smoke to prevent you from becoming addicted to harder drugs? Have you been addicted to harder drugs in the past and smoking keeps you away?

When will we see the frantically typing kat again?

 

[xotoxi]

Problem is ... the connections made to illnesses are all circumstantial ... period.

Hi Terral,

Let's just look at SMOKING AND CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE (from uptodate.com)

With respect to coronary heart disease (CHD), the following observations have been made regarding a major role for smoking:

• Smoking is an independent major risk factor for CHD, cerebrovascular disease, and total atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease.

• The incidence of a MI is increased sixfold in women and threefold in men who smoke at least 20 cigarettes per day compared to subjects who never smoked. In the worldwide INTERHEART study of patients from 52 countries, smoking accounted for 36 percent of the population attributable risk of a first MI.

• Cigarette smoking increases all-cause and cardiovascular mortality. In one study, the adjusted hazard ratio for 35 year all-cause and cardiovascular mortality was 1.62 and 1.63, respectively for current smokers compared to nonsmokers. Those who persisted in smoking cessation had no increased risk of death compared to nonsmokers.

• Patients who continue to smoke in the presence of established CHD have an increased risk of reinfarction and an increased risk of death, including sudden cardiac death.

• Smoking status before coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery does not affect survival after surgery, but persistent smokers after CABG have a greater relative risk of all-cause mortality (relative risk 1.68), cardiac death (relative risk 1.75), and need for repeat revascularization (relative risk 1.41) compared to those who stopped smoking for at least one year.

• After angioplasty, persistent smokers have a greater relative risk of death (1.76) and Q wave myocardial infarction (2.08) compared to nonsmokers, and a higher relative risk of total and cardiac mortality (relative risk 1.44 and 1.49, respectively) when compared to those who quit smoking.

• Among patients with left ventricular dysfunction (left ventricular ejection fraction ≤35 percent) in the SOLVD trial, smoking significantly increased all-cause mortality (relative risk 1.41 compared to ex-smokers or never smokers) and the incidence of death, recurrent heart failure requiring hospitalization, or myocardial infarction (relative risk 1.39).

Would you like some more information?

 

[xotoxi]

Proposal:

People who are eligible for Medicaid should lose their eligibility if they smoke.

Discuss.


(I'd prefer not to discuss whether or not Medicaid should exist, but rather if poor people, who have enough money to waste on cigarettes, should be given government funds for their healthcare.)

actually if you think about it you shouldn't because like in my state most of the taxes on cigarettes go to funding medicaid. The cigarettes here just went up 95 cents this year to fund medicaid and about 60 cents last year. So in reality when they buy their cigarettes they are paying for their health care.

So in your state (which I assume is Washington as I do not know of any other Spokanes), the tax rate for a pack of cigs is $2.025 (from State Overview)

That means at a pack per day, essentially these folks are paying an average of $61.59 per month ($739.13 annually) for their medical insurance premiums.

I'm not quite sure that you could say that they are paying for their health care, since $739.13 likely isn't enough to cover even one of their patented Medicaid beneficiary ER visits for a hangnail.

 

[KittenKoder]

Seriously Xot ... what drugs do NOT have risks? Really ... just one.

 

[WillowTree]

Twelve states—Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Washington—and the District of Columbia have a tax at or above $2.00 per pack. Eleven states—mostly in the southeastern United States—have a tax of less than 50 cents per pack.
State Overview


So in my state in 2008 not counting the new cigarette tax you paid an average of $2 a pack towards medicaid/taxes so if spent on average $5 a day on cigarettes that would mean you pay $60 a month towards medicaid and $720 for the year. Than you take away the people who pay for their own insurance but are still supporting medicaid through their taxes, I think smokers are giving their fair share of money to cover their medical insurance. With an average of 700,000 which is a low number of people smoking in my state times that by $720 a year. I think smokers are paying their fair share towards medicaid.

well, figure of the cost of a pnuemonectomy, chemotherapy, and radiation therapy,, then get back to us.

 

[xotoxi]

Seriously Xot ... what drugs do NOT have risks? Really ... just one.

None. Even oxygen can be dangerous.

But tobacco/nicotine/smoking has all risks without true benefit from a medical perspective (with the exception of ulcerative colitis where cigarette smokers have a lower risk then non-smokers).

It's a killer from every perspective, and it's use is highly prevalent (as opposed to crack, heroin, meth - which kill, but are used less commonly)

 

[KittenKoder]

Seriously Xot ... what drugs do NOT have risks? Really ... just one.

None. Even oxygen can be dangerous.

But tobacco/nicotine/smoking has all risks without true benefit from a medical perspective (with the exception of ulcerative colitis where cigarette smokers have a lower risk then non-smokers).

It's a killer from every perspective, and it's use is highly prevalent (as opposed to crack, heroin, meth - which kill, but are used less commonly)

Without a true benefit? Seriously ...

I know a lot of people who are getting great benefits from their prescription drugs ... as long as they take a dozen others to keep the side effects from killing them. While nicotine can actually replace several psych meds, particularly the one that I was suppose to take for social anxiety, which had so many side effects I felt worse from them and was at a MUCH higher risk of liver failure and hear disease than smoking has ever given me. Really, take off the blinders. A drug is a drug, and all drugs have risks, and those risks are never the same for two people, nor are the side effects.

Just because a lot of people taking one drug happen to have the same illness doesn't mean the drug is responsible as well. That's why it's all circumstantial evidence, there is no definitive connection yet, only statistics which are easily manipulated for one reason or another. That's how they are able to have several "number one causes" in our country at the same time.