Media pummels solar industry!

[Billy_Bob]

It seems to me you guys are spouting uninformed rhetoric about home electrical systems and solar or wind turbine installations to reduce greenhouse gasses. In my area fog is a night time blessing that clears by 8 or so in the morning and works wonders to control heat.
By the way I was a licensed contractor and built homes for a few years. Being a tax man came from my education in business about tax credits and the tax law.
Your attempts to make me feel guilty for installing solar will not work as I am very happy.

Feel free to be happy. for now..

Your panels will degrade 2% per year at a minimum. At 20 years I expect you will have had to replace all of them at some point along with your inverter... Nature of the beast when dealing with the sun and electricity.

You have no clue how rain, dust and wind affect your system because it decrease the amperage output of your system.

And FYI, I have a hybrid system that uses wind generation, PV arrays, battery storage for 7 days and a back up generator set that I seldom use but is kept in operating condition. I don't sell any power back because its not worth it. My base line connection fee is 8.98 a month. I could live totally off grid but do not choose to.. I am very well versed in these systems..

Enjoy it while its working...

 

[westwall]

Of course you can

I can buy them as I used to service off-grid systems for telecommunications sites. Those sites also had battery backups that could last 3-5 days of no sun. We usually designed them with PMA wind generators and some of those sites can go weeks without sun.

The problem is lay persons who do not understand how or why these systems work. They will spout all kinds of crap..

Of course you can, but they won`t allow you to install them yourself to a residential home which is hooked up to the power grid unless you tell not only the power company, your home insurance company, the fire inspector and every other city bylaw inspector the power company you just pissed off will send to your house to f-off as well. They make a killing on the installation, not on the panels and hound you with inspections till you cry uncle.

I still have my journeyman's electricians license. I can still sign off on these but I would never put one ON my own home. NEVER! But I do use one that is adjacent to my home with clearly indicated cut-off's. Fire departments do what they call surround and drown only if they can cut off power to the inverter. If they cant disconnect the panels they watch it burn and protect homes around you. To high of a chance of electrocution. I've even given the fire chief here a full tour and instructions on how to disconnect.

So it can be done safely but if you do not have training it can become a real problem real fast. As for pissing off the power company, as long as I pay the line maintenance fee on time they don't bother me.

Where I live you must get permission to attach and even then they pay just 0.02cents per k/hr and if it exceeds your bill amount they are not required to pay you at all. It does not pay to put them up or on here, but I like the convenience of not freezing when it gets 40 below zero and the wind is blowing in winter time and the line servicing your home might take weeks to get repaired.

I had my cut off placed next to the main panel outside. I happen to live in a civilized area where people in the fire department have brains and know how to turn off the panels from Ac to Dc so they do not have to worry.

White privilege is awesome. You're lucky....alot of uncivilized communities in California. My window to visit has closed....couldnt pay me to visit that shithole state ( although seeing roads painted white would be hysterical for sure ).

I live in a black community that has Muslims and Sikhs and asians. I would say do not come here as your attitude is just too rude for civility with humans,

I doubt that highly. California immigrant communities are highly concentrated. I know of no city in Cali where Sikhs and Muslims live together. Yuba City is the largest concentration of Sikhs in Cali, and by a huge margin. Sikhs are very cool, very forward thinking (men and women are equal), and that makes them an enemy of Islam.

I think you are not very well informed so your lies are pretty easy to pick apart.

 

[westwall]

1.8 kw with 8 panels. I paid $15,000 and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month to be connected to the grid sO I can sell my excess generation back to them.

Thanks for the info, but I think you gave me the panel system rating instead of what you actually get out of it.
Even then 1.8 kw peak power is quite low, too low for most households unless nobody else runs cooks something on the stove while you have a hot shower....or if you use gas for all the other appliances that heat something.
Even a small ac sucks back 750 watts that leaves you with only ~ 1000 watts for everything else.
As soon as you use a small microwave oven you are already down to nothing. Meaning you would have to dry your laundry on a clothesline. You won`t find many average size families that would be willing to fork over $ 15 000 and downsize their power consumption to be within that low range.

I have gas for everything but lights and the micro. Do not need or use AC as this is California and we have a natural AC called fog. As for what I get I have a meter that tells me so I know how much PG&E is to pay me for my gas bill. The system is rated for 200 kwh a month.

I have gas for everything but lights and the micro.
If you already use gas for everything else you could have installed a (natural) gas generator for ~ $ 10 000 less than what you paid for this Mickey-mouse 1 point whatever kW solar system and have 9 kW whenever you want it.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01M9A3NV1/?tag=

Generac 7030 Guardian Series 9kW/8kW Air Cooled Home Standby Generator with 16 Circuit 100 Amp Transfer Switch
Price: CDN$ 3,459.00

I was looking at that to replace my old generator. They are pretty damned good units!

 

[westwall]

1.8 kw with 8 panels. I paid $15,000 and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month to be connected to the grid sO I can sell my excess generation back to them.

and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month

What was your old monthly bill?

My electricity was much cheaper then as there have been two increases since I went solar. I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.
You might even be paying for my solar as I got a 30% tax credit. That was $4,000 some dollars. So I wound up with only $10,000 something to pay. As for what I get paid is 5 cents a killowatt.

Lets play the numbers game...

We will assume you owed just 10,000.00 and that your home uses about 1.9KW in a day (about 1900watts/hour for 11 hours-this is a very low estimate).

Lets look at your system. 8 panels rated at 275W @ 16VDC each. Realize that the panels will only generate that much power with direct solar energy at 90 degree's to panel face. For each 5 deg change that diminishes by a 20% loss of rated output. Total rated output is 2,200w @ 16vdc or 137Amps at 16VDC. During summer, for 8 hours of the day you will receive between 60-80% of rated output and 2 hours of 80-90% of rated output. Beyond that the rated output is below 0-60%.

2 hours at 2,000w = 0.2Kw/hr 2 x 0.2= 0.4kw
8 hours at 1,600w = 0.16Kw/hr 8 x 0.16= 1.28kw
4 hours at 1,000w = 0.1Kw/hr 4 x 0.1= 0.4kw

Using this rough estimate, your system on a cloudless summer day is capable of just 1.72Kw/hr of output daily. IF your using 1.8-1.9Kw/hr daily this system might barely meet your needs during summer. During winter, drop about 10-15% from these estimates at 45Deg Lat.

On your power bill they place a daily usage number for the month. That information alone will tell me if you are making anything at all from your panel array. I really don't see where your making much of anything. At a 125 dollar a month saving it will take you about 15 years to recoup costs after repairs of the system over time..

The panels are warranted for 20 years. I get 1.8kw generation most every day of the year from 10 am to 4 pm. I have a very good system. And clouds do not change the output very much at all and rain does not hamper output either.

Ummm, yeah....about that claim... I suggest you do a simple search and then not try that lie again. I have had solar on my home for almost 30 years now. It is a nice backup for when the grid fails due to wind storms etc. My system was once upon a time rated at 10kw, now I get about 2kw on a good day. I have a water wheel which provides the majority of my off grid power, and it is far more reliable, and runs 24/7 to boot.

 

[Old Rocks]

1.8 kw with 8 panels. I paid $15,000 and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month to be connected to the grid sO I can sell my excess generation back to them.

and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month

What was your old monthly bill?

My electricity was much cheaper then as there have been two increases since I went solar. I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.
You might even be paying for my solar as I got a 30% tax credit. That was $4,000 some dollars. So I wound up with only $10,000 something to pay. As for what I get paid is 5 cents a killowatt.

I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.

Used to be $125, now it's $11.
Your $114 monthly savings means it would take you about 132 months, 11 years, to make back your initial $15000 investment. How long are those things supposed to last?

Are you senile? It has been posted here many times. Most panels are guaranteed for 20 to 25 years, and that guarantee is that at that point it will still generate at least 80% of it's original rated wattage. Also, if you have a battery, say a Powerwall 2, then you have a backup in the case of grid failure.

 

[Old Rocks]

Less than 2 cents per kw/hr.

 

[Old Rocks]

Mexico is moving fast on solar.

 

[Old Rocks]

Just one of many being built in India.

 

[Old Rocks]

And of course, China.

 

[skookerasbil]

Hey Old Rocks.....how about coal s0n?

You fakers never compare

Please dont respond with fake growth "rate" statistics. Only the dummies fall for that trick!

 

[Weatherman2020]

So I can hardly believe my eyes last night watching NEWS 12 last night, the local outlet serving Long Island and watched by many here!

A TV story slamming the shit out of local solar companies....interviews of local citizens found that they are getting ripped off left and right ( as I've been saying in here for years ). Bill's that go up 3% every year for 15 years ( in the contract ) and these people are already paying higher electric rates than before the installed solar! . Customers complaining ( see vid in link ) about hardball sell tactics and bogus claims of lower utility bills.

Sunburned: Solar industry faces complaints over hard-sell tactics

I was sitting on my couch laughing my balls off....thinking of all the Long Islanders seeing this and being like . Most people naive as hell about how crooked this solar industry is and viewers got to hear they subsidize this kind of fraud.

Of course, when it went to commercial break, said to the wife, "Mama....who's not winning?!!"

In SoCal I had solar because I wanted to screw SDGE back. But in the process I learned the industry has a lot of scams taking place that the left refuse to address.

 

[skookerasbil]

So I can hardly believe my eyes last night watching NEWS 12 last night, the local outlet serving Long Island and watched by many here!

A TV story slamming the shit out of local solar companies....interviews of local citizens found that they are getting ripped off left and right ( as I've been saying in here for years ). Bill's that go up 3% every year for 15 years ( in the contract ) and these people are already paying higher electric rates than before the installed solar! . Customers complaining ( see vid in link ) about hardball sell tactics and bogus claims of lower utility bills.

Sunburned: Solar industry faces complaints over hard-sell tactics

I was sitting on my couch laughing my balls off....thinking of all the Long Islanders seeing this and being like . Most people naive as hell about how crooked this solar industry is and viewers got to hear they subsidize this kind of fraud.

Of course, when it went to commercial break, said to the wife, "Mama....who's not winning?!!"

In SoCal I had solar because I wanted to screw SDGE back. But in the process I learned the industry has a lot of scams taking place that the left refuse to address.

No worries.....solar is a fringe energy entity and always will be. There are enough investors out there taking profits to make it viable. Barely. Same as the EV market. Its business.....if there are just enough suckers at the margins willing to buy, the business is perpetuated. When compared to fossil fuels, it's a joke. Like comparing CocaCola, Valeo Foods and PepsiCo to Suntory Holdings in the soft drink industry......

Suntory "growth rates" look impressive as hell....but when compared to Valeo and CocaCola, its laughable >>>

Google Image Result for https://www.maritimefirstnewspaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/soft-drinks-co-shares-1.png

You see.....when progressive shit is put into a comparison context, you start realizing the level of fake ( or mental case ).

 

[Billy_Bob]

1.8 kw with 8 panels. I paid $15,000 and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month to be connected to the grid sO I can sell my excess generation back to them.

and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month

What was your old monthly bill?

My electricity was much cheaper then as there have been two increases since I went solar. I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.
You might even be paying for my solar as I got a 30% tax credit. That was $4,000 some dollars. So I wound up with only $10,000 something to pay. As for what I get paid is 5 cents a killowatt.

I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.

Used to be $125, now it's $11.
Your $114 monthly savings means it would take you about 132 months, 11 years, to make back your initial $15000 investment. How long are those things supposed to last?

Are you senile? It has been posted here many times. Most panels are guaranteed for 20 to 25 years, and that guarantee is that at that point it will still generate at least 80% of it's original rated wattage. Also, if you have a battery, say a Powerwall 2, then you have a backup in the case of grid failure.

No solar panel generates 80% of rated output at 10 years in age... What the hell are you smoking? You and Taxman must be on drugs together..

 

[Old Rocks]

1.8 kw with 8 panels. I paid $15,000 and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month to be connected to the grid sO I can sell my excess generation back to them.

and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month

What was your old monthly bill?

My electricity was much cheaper then as there have been two increases since I went solar. I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.
You might even be paying for my solar as I got a 30% tax credit. That was $4,000 some dollars. So I wound up with only $10,000 something to pay. As for what I get paid is 5 cents a killowatt.

I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.

Used to be $125, now it's $11.
Your $114 monthly savings means it would take you about 132 months, 11 years, to make back your initial $15000 investment. How long are those things supposed to last?

Are you senile? It has been posted here many times. Most panels are guaranteed for 20 to 25 years, and that guarantee is that at that point it will still generate at least 80% of it's original rated wattage. Also, if you have a battery, say a Powerwall 2, then you have a backup in the case of grid failure.

No solar panel generates 80% of rated output at 10 years in age... What the hell are you smoking? You and Taxman must be on drugs together..

You are such a pathetic little liar, Silly Billy. Here are the facts;

The Life Expectancy of Solar Panels - How Long Will They Last

How long do solar panels last?
Solar panels are increasingly becoming a popular way to provide energy to UK houses, due in large part to rising energy bills and carbon emissions. The newer solar panel models in the market are expected to have 40-50 year lifespans and warranties to protect them for at least half that time.

The warranties also guarantee the performance level of the panels over their first 25 years. Most warranties guarantee that performance will not drop below 80% by the end of the warranty period. Some panels have been known to still be more than 80% efficient by the end of their life.

With care and attention, solar panels could potentially last over forty years after installation, although their performance will have deteriorated marginally over that time. The 40-50 year life expectancy goes for both monocrystalline and polycrystalline solar panels. Less is known about the lifespan of thin film panels at the moment but, as they also have 25 year warranties as standard, they are expected to match the long life of crystalline panels. The size and wattage of the system should not impact its lifespan.

 

[Billy_Bob]

and pay nothing except my $11.09 a month

What was your old monthly bill?

My electricity was much cheaper then as there have been two increases since I went solar. I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.
You might even be paying for my solar as I got a 30% tax credit. That was $4,000 some dollars. So I wound up with only $10,000 something to pay. As for what I get paid is 5 cents a killowatt.

I think it was about 125 a month but could be wrong.

Used to be $125, now it's $11.
Your $114 monthly savings means it would take you about 132 months, 11 years, to make back your initial $15000 investment. How long are those things supposed to last?

Are you senile? It has been posted here many times. Most panels are guaranteed for 20 to 25 years, and that guarantee is that at that point it will still generate at least 80% of it's original rated wattage. Also, if you have a battery, say a Powerwall 2, then you have a backup in the case of grid failure.

No solar panel generates 80% of rated output at 10 years in age... What the hell are you smoking? You and Taxman must be on drugs together..

You are such a pathetic little liar, Silly Billy. Here are the facts;

The Life Expectancy of Solar Panels - How Long Will They Last

How long do solar panels last?
Solar panels are increasingly becoming a popular way to provide energy to UK houses, due in large part to rising energy bills and carbon emissions. The newer solar panel models in the market are expected to have 40-50 year lifespans and warranties to protect them for at least half that time.

The warranties also guarantee the performance level of the panels over their first 25 years. Most warranties guarantee that performance will not drop below 80% by the end of the warranty period. Some panels have been known to still be more than 80% efficient by the end of their life.

With care and attention, solar panels could potentially last over forty years after installation, although their performance will have deteriorated marginally over that time. The 40-50 year life expectancy goes for both monocrystalline and polycrystalline solar panels. Less is known about the lifespan of thin film panels at the moment but, as they also have 25 year warranties as standard, they are expected to match the long life of crystalline panels. The size and wattage of the system should not impact its lifespan.

Old Fraud.... I just went and checked the CURRENT testing at NTSC site. Here are the values.

Pre 2000 And Post 2000 testing

There have been some improvements but care and maintenance will be the key to doing as well as the average. I said 2% and the current average is 1.2%. That implies they have made decent progress since 2005..

Warranties can say whatever the the hell they want as most people are clueless on how to calculate functionality. The AVERAGE means some will do better and some will not. Do you know the average number of panels that fail inside 10 years? 1 in 8
That number too has made progress as in just 2010 it was 3 in 7.

Technologies are changing and progress is being made but the big problem is still storage and conversion to our use.

 

[Tax Man]

Peterson dean is a solar company and can be found at PD.solar. They have a 30 year warranty on the panels they sell and install. Now just because I screwed you guys doesn't mean I am lying. I know what I pay and I am very happy unlike yous guys.

If my panels do not produce the proper output they will install a new one or ones .

 

[Billy_Bob]

Peterson dean is a solar company and can be found at PD.solar. They have a 30 year warranty on the panels they sell and install. Now just because I screwed you guys doesn't mean I am lying. I know what I pay and I am very happy unlike yous guys.

If my panels do not produce the proper output they will install a new one or ones .

You didn't "screw" anyone but yourself... I would have to see your warranty but I'm betting that after 7 years you pay yourself for everything. Now that may not be the case if you Leased your system. Then the whole thing belongs to them and your paying them instead of the power company.. Which means they took the subsidies and your left holding the bag..

 

[skookerasbil]

Nobody is gonna csres about panel life if nobody is buying!