Mechanics Of Satanic Enslavement

[no1tovote4]

Well, one of the two of you has to be lying. The quaint, harmless, obligatory rules either exist or don't exist. You say they do, and no1 says they don't. If you're not lying, then he is.

The thing of it is he isn't lying, he truly believes that freemasonry is non-compliant to his religion. Nor am I, this belief of his is based on misconceptions that have existed about freemasonry for quite some time.

Men who believe that freemasonry is evil don't become freemasons and easily can believe in those misconceptions without compunction.

What I do here is talk about what the fraternity is about so some of those misconceptions can be cleared up. I have little doubt that I cannot clear them up for somebody who has made up their minds about it, but I have a hard time just letting these "truths" stand without pointing out certain things that I know that can show them to be misconceptions. Basically I am defending all the Christians that I know to be freemasons who believe as strongly as ever in their Faith as they ever have.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Well I want you to smear your naked self with crisco, find the dustiest spot you can on campus, roll around in it, then go into a library. curl up in the corner and try to pass yourself off a dust bunny, but I think it just ain't gonna happen. Your desire shall remain as mine, unrequited.

So not man enough, eh? Not surprised.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So not man enough, eh? Not surprised.

You're such a stud, clay.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The thing of it is he isn't lying, he truly believes that freemasonry is non-compliant to his religion. Nor am I, this belief of his is based on misconceptions that have existed about freemasonry for quite some time.

Men who believe that freemasonry is evil don't become freemasons and easily can believe in those misconceptions without compunction.

What I do here is talk about what the fraternity is about so some of those misconceptions can be cleared up. I have little doubt that I cannot clear them up for somebody who has made up their minds about it, but I have a hard time just letting these "truths" stand without pointing out certain things that I know that can show them to be misconceptions. Basically I am defending all the Christians that I know to be freemasons who believe as strongly as ever in their Faith as they ever have.

And you misunderstand christianity if you think worshipping abstractions is something kosher, so to speak. Muslims also say their religion is consistent with christianity because they believe jesus was a prophet. Do you believe that as well?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

The thing of it is he isn't lying, he truly believes that freemasonry is non-compliant to his religion. Nor am I, this belief of his is based on misconceptions that have existed about freemasonry for quite some time.

Men who believe that freemasonry is evil don't become freemasons and easily can believe in those misconceptions without compunction.

What I do here is talk about what the fraternity is about so some of those misconceptions can be cleared up. I have little doubt that I cannot clear them up for somebody who has made up their minds about it, but I have a hard time just letting these "truths" stand without pointing out certain things that I know that can show them to be misconceptions. Basically I am defending all the Christians that I know to be freemasons who believe as strongly as ever in their Faith as they ever have.

I was referring here:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=409092&postcount=50

He quotes:

But, then when you reach on into the higher degrees of Masonry, they in effect let you find out the "Royal Secret" that the God of the Christians is the same God as was worshipped by the Babylonians, Egyptians, and any other Pagan Religion! They make it seem very alluring and mysterious, having you think that some great "wisdom" is just around the corner, if you follow on further into the degrees of Masonry. This so-called "secret wisdom" is merely the idea that all Gods are really just variations of the "One" God, The Sun God!

and you claim it's total rubbish. Maybe he's not lying but just has bad intel. Fair enough, I suppose. And probably reality, since he has no idea what happens if you refuse to accept the "secret wisdom."

 

[no1tovote4]

And you misunderstand christianity if you think worshipping abstractions is something kosher, so to speak. Muslims also say their religion is consistent with christianity because they believe jesus was a prophet. Do you believe that as well?

The misunderstanding here is that the Lodge is a place of worship. It isn't. It is not a church it is a Lodge of a fraternal order. The only thing religious about it is the requirement that you believe in One True God in order to become a member. (Else no Oath or Obligation would be considered binding by you.) You don't go to the Lodge to worship God, you go to be among friends and promote Charity and Brotherly Love...

I do not believe that Islam is consistent with Christianity because they do not promote the Deity of Christ. Nor do I think Buddhism is...

I do know that freemasonry will never attempt to make a Christian believe in a different God than that in which they do believe, nor will the fraternity attempt to make me believe in any different God than that in which I believe. That is a myth, a misconception, an attempt to find sinister action where none exists.

A basic misunderstanding of this fraternity is what is consistent here. Not my misunderstanding of Christianity.

Were you to become a Freemason, no doubt you won't because of these beliefs of yours that are based on misconceived notions of the fraternity, you would never be expected to take on any other beliefs than those which you currently have.

 

[Nienna]

It seemed mocking and not too helpful. Maybe a little less over the top would be better! :rotflmao:

Dang it! I thought I had nailed that one. Well, you'll have to coach me.

 

[no1tovote4]

I was referring here:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=409092&postcount=50

He quotes:and you claim it's total rubbish. Maybe he's not lying but just has bad intel. Fair enough, I suppose. And probably reality, since he has no idea what happens if you refuse to accept the "secret wisdom."

Yes, that is one of the misconceptions I was attempting to dispel, not for him but generally. My hope is that he would not rely on these blogspots and websites but would find the right by talking with more freemasons than just myself and seek out better information than prepackaged websites where the authors are specifically attempting to find something bad.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The misunderstanding here is that the Lodge is a place of worship. It isn't. It is not a church it is a Lodge of a fraternal order. The only thing religious about it is the requirement that you believe in One True God in order to become a member. (Else no Oath or Obligation would be considered binding by you.) You don't go to the Lodge to worship God, you go to be among friends and promote Charity and Brotherly Love...

I do not believe that Islam is consistent with Christianity because they do not promote the Deity of Christ. Nor do I think Buddhism is...

I do know that freemasonry will never attempt to make a Christian believe in a different God than that in which they do believe, nor will the fraternity attempt to make me believe in any different God than that in which I believe. That is a myth, a misconception, an attempt to find sinister action where none exists.

A basic misunderstanding of this fraternity is what is consistent here. Not my misunderstanding of Christianity.

Were you to become a Freemason, no doubt you won't because of these beliefs of yours that are based on misconceived notions of the fraternity, you would never be expected to take on any other beliefs than those which you currently have.

So there are no rituals after you gain membership? They just ask if you're a monotheist once and there are no oaths or rituals referring to The Grand Architect of Universe after that one time initial question?

 

[misterblu]

Well I want you to smear your naked self with crisco...your desire shall remain as mine, unrequited.

 

[no1tovote4]

So there are no rituals after you gain membership? They just ask if you're a monotheist once and there are no oaths or rituals referring to The Grand Architect of Universe after that one time initial question?

The Oath, as I have shown before, refers to God and the Obligation to Almighty God, not to the Grand Architect of the Universe. This is the fourth time I have mentioned this fact and you have ignored it each time. This is why I say you are being deliberate in your ignorance.

There are rituals to gain membership, much like any fraternity in college there are also rituals that they follow. They are traditional and are used to help impress upon the memory the history of the fraternity, allegorical as well as true history.

The ritual is not religious in nature, it is simply a way to pass on the traditions of the lodge through word of mouth as the ritual is not written down by freemasons as per their Obligation to which they swore their Oath.

Attempting to make a religion of a fraternity is the original misconception and misunderstanding of the fraternity from which all your other misconception unfolds.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The Oath, as I have shown before, refers to God and the Obligation to Almighty God, not to the Grand Architect of the Universe. This is the fourth time I have mentioned this fact and you have ignored it each time. This is why I say you are being deliberate in your ignorance.

There are rituals to gain membership, much like any fraternity in college there are also rituals that they follow. They are traditional and are used to help impress upon the memory the history of the fraternity, allegorical as well as true history.

The ritual is not religious in nature, it is simply a way to pass on the traditions of the lodge through word of mouth as the ritual is not written down by freemasons as per their Obligation to which they swore their Oath.

Attempting to make a religion of a fraternity is the original misconception and misunderstanding of the fraternity from which all your other misconception unfolds.

So now it has no religious significance whatsoever? I thought you had to believe in one god?

You're messing up man. Your handler will be upset with you.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

So now it has no religious significance whatsoever? I thought you had to believe in one god?

You're messing up man. Your handler will be upset with you.

It's a God, not one God. Comprehension along with reading.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/MASONREL.TXT

Most Masons who deny that Masonry is a religion confuse religion with the Christian
religion. They know Masonry is not Christian since if it were their Jewish and Moslem
brethren would object. Since it is not Christian they assume that it is not religious. Or
their views of Christianity as primarily a system of character building and as
synonymous with the decent. kindly. and gentlemanly coincide with their appraisal of
the lodge and they see no conflict between the two institutions. The fact is, however,
that the lodge is essentially religious and possesses all the elements of a religion of
naturalism.

Masons themselves have testified again and again to the religious nature of the lodge
while denying that Masonry should be classified as "sectarian" religion. By this they
mean that the various religious faiths represent on a lower plane that pure and
undefiled universal religion of mankind represented by Freemasonry. For example,
Pike states:

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief falsifies and
denaturalizes it. The Brahmin, the Jew, the Mohometan, the Catholic, the Protestant,
each professing his peculiar religion, sanctioned by the laws, by time, and by climate,
must needs retain it, and cannot have two religions; for the social and sacred laws
adapted to the usages, manners, and prejudices of particular countries are the work of
man.[1]

Masonry is willing to humor those brethren who go along with the local and tribal cults
so long as they realize that the sectarian doctrines of these cults are simply necessary
evils. Pike explains:

But Masonry teaches, and has preserved in their purity, the cardinal tenets of the old
primitive faith, which underlie and are the foundation of all religion. All that ever
existed have had a basis of truth; and all have overlaid that truth with errors . . .
Masonry is the universal morality which is suitable to the inhabitants of every clime, to
the man of every creed.[2]

He adds, "Religion, to obtain currency and influence with the great mass of mankind,
must needs be alloyed with such an amount of error as to place it far below the
standard attainable by the higher human capacities."[3] Masonry, however, strips
sectarian religion of these encrusted errors and reveals itself as the universal religion.
While religion gathers the barnacles of superstition and error, Masonry remains pure
and undefiled. It becomes Christianity without Christ, Judaism without the Law, Islam
without the Prophet.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Comprehension along with reading.

Nouns along with verbs.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/MASONREL.TXT

Most Masons ...

Ah. Fraternity is religion. Got it.

 

[no1tovote4]

So now it has no religious significance whatsoever? I thought you had to believe in one god?

You're messing up man. Your handler will be upset with you.

You are being deliberately obtuse here again. It is a requirement that you believe in One True God and because you take the Oath to God and therefore it would not bind an atheist. That is a small part of the ceremony, we also Pledge to the Flag during every meeting, does this mean we "worship" the flag. It is simply hogwash promoted by those who deliberately misunderstand to promote an agenda of "sinister" feelings about something they don't seek to understand, but to condemn. When seeking out condemnation it is easy to take things out of their original concept and impart any evil intention you want. As shown by the aforementioned sites of moveon.org and all those thousands of blogspots that seek the "evil" in the rupublican party.

It is like being at a republican convention where they pray, the prayer itself doesn't make the convention a "religious ceremony".

It is only a small part of the ceremony which impresses on the mind the allegorical as well as true history of the fraternity.

You are being disingenuous in this argument. It is not a religious ceremony it is a tradition of a fraternity. Attempting to impart more importance to it is a tool of those who seek to find the sinister in the commonplace. I don't see websites saying Pi Alpha Beta or whatever is a religious organization because they take oaths, nor is Freemasonry a religion. It is a fraternity.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Ah. Fraternity is religion. Got it.

Masonry has two firm religious beliefs, the belief in ONE creator and an immortal soul. Since these are relgious beliefs, that means it's more than a fraternity. Why don't you go read something instead of just parading around like an idiobot?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You are being deliberately obtuse here again. It is a requirement that you believe in One True God and because you take the Oath to God and therefore it would not bind an atheist. That is a small part of the ceremony, we also Pledge to the Flag during every meeting, does this mean we "worship" the flag. It is simply hogwash promoted by those who deliberately misunderstand to promote an agenda of "sinister" feelings about something they don't seek to understand, but to condemn. When seeking out condemnation it is easy to take things out of their original concept and impart any evil intention you want. As shown by the aforementioned sites of moveon.org and all those thousands of blogspots that seek the "evil" in the rupublican party.

It is like being at a republican convention where they pray, the prayer itself doesn't make the convention a "religious ceremony".

It is only a small part of the ceremony which impresses on the mind the allegorical as well as true history of the fraternity.

You are being disingenuous in this argument. It is not a religious ceremony it is a tradition of a fraternity. Attempting to impart more importance to it is a tool of those who seek to find the sinister in the commonplace. I don't see websites saying Pi Alpha Beta or whatever is a religious organization because they take oaths, nor is Freemasonry a religion. It is a fraternity.

So it is religious afterall.

 

[no1tovote4]

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/MASONREL.TXT

Most Masons who deny that Masonry is a religion confuse religion with the Christian
religion. They know Masonry is not Christian since if it were their Jewish and Moslem
brethren would object. Since it is not Christian they assume that it is not religious. Or
their views of Christianity as primarily a system of character building and as
synonymous with the decent. kindly. and gentlemanly coincide with their appraisal of
the lodge and they see no conflict between the two institutions. The fact is, however,
that the lodge is essentially religious and possesses all the elements of a religion of
naturalism.

Rubbish, they know that it is a fraternity, not a religion and that there is a difference between the two. Much like being a republican (a group that accepts people of every religion) isn't a religion that is anti-christian, this too is not a religion at all. It is simply a fraternity. Like the aforementioned (pretend) fraternity of Pi Alpha Beta (there might actually be one, I wouldn't actually know).

Masons themselves have testified again and again to the religious nature of the lodge
while denying that Masonry should be classified as "sectarian" religion. By this they
mean that the various religious faiths represent on a lower plane that pure and
undefiled universal religion of mankind represented by Freemasonry. For example,
Pike states:

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief falsifies and
denaturalizes it. The Brahmin, the Jew, the Mohometan, the Catholic, the Protestant,
each professing his peculiar religion, sanctioned by the laws, by time, and by climate,
must needs retain it, and cannot have two religions; for the social and sacred laws
adapted to the usages, manners, and prejudices of particular countries are the work of
man.[1]

Masonry is willing to humor those brethren who go along with the local and tribal cults
so long as they realize that the sectarian doctrines of these cults are simply necessary
evils. Pike explains:

But Masonry teaches, and has preserved in their purity, the cardinal tenets of the old
primitive faith, which underlie and are the foundation of all religion. All that ever
existed have had a basis of truth; and all have overlaid that truth with errors . . .
Masonry is the universal morality which is suitable to the inhabitants of every clime, to
the man of every creed.[2]

He adds, "Religion, to obtain currency and influence with the great mass of mankind,
must needs be alloyed with such an amount of error as to place it far below the
standard attainable by the higher human capacities."[3] Masonry, however, strips
sectarian religion of these encrusted errors and reveals itself as the universal religion.
While religion gathers the barnacles of superstition and error, Masonry remains pure
and undefiled. It becomes Christianity without Christ, Judaism without the Law, Islam
without the Prophet.

Right, and Pike is taken out of context and his usages of words out of their historical reference point.

http://www.edmond-mason.org/education/Masonic Writers Albert Pike .html

Pike's influence on contemporary Freemasonry is the topic of some debate both within and outside the Craft (another allegorical word for the Fraternity). His "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" has often been quoted, misquoted and taken out of context by anti-masons and misled non-masons. Pike's extensive references to the symbolism, practices and beliefs of religious schools through history and around the world can, unfortunately, lead the careless reader into a mistaken idea of what constitutes Freemasonry. He is not always consistent in his use of some terms and he is, of course, a product of his time and place in history. Pike cannot act as representative of Freemasonry but this text is a valid and valuable introduction to the symbolic values that history placed on the metaphors and allegories of Masonic teachings. The following quotes do not include any of his more obscure and esoteric references. They will, though, show that Pike did not view Freemasonry as a religion, luciferian or otherwise. He also does not set himself up as an authority as will be shown by the first quote.

Here is a good site wherein one can educate themselves on the customs and traditions of the fraternity and understand better how Pikes words were taken out of context and thus given a "sinister" appearance. Reading only a small portion of a 500 page book can give you false impressions such as you have seen here.