McCain is the Greatest Flip Flopper of all time

[midcan5]

Gop voters actually believe in personal responsibility and small government. It's not that they are against charity, they are against government mandated charity. They believe that the people hold the solutions to society's problems and not the government. They believe that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector.

Honest question, did you choke when you wrote that? Which GOP are you talking about, it can't be one I know about? Please tell us. Everyone since Nixon has grown government, you must believe the spin from the wingnuts.

 

[jreeves]

Honest question, did you choke when you wrote that? Which GOP are you talking about, it can't be one I know about? Please tell us. Everyone since Nixon has grown government, you must believe the spin from the wingnuts.

Actually the government has grown pretty much since FDR, entitlements automatically grow.....

 

[sealybobo]

Gop voters actually believe in personal responsibility and small government. It's not that they are against charity, they are against government mandated charity. They believe that the people hold the solutions to society's problems and not the government. They believe that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector.

ThomHartmann.com - The Story of Carl - On Workers Memorial Day

democracy - the idea of government of, by, and for the people - has been twisted and perverted and essentially taken over by entities driven by a single value: profit. And it's happening all over the world.

Which is not to say that profit is a bad thing. Carl, for example, was happy that the company he worked for made enough profit that its owners would keep it in business and pay him a salary. Profit can drive healthy economies, and has its rightful place in the halls of business.

But profit has no place in the halls of governments, which were created by and for living humans. When corporations took over writing the rules that "we, the people" originally put in place to regulate and control profit-driven enterprises, then a sickness known as corporatism seized control of governments, and their people were the first ones to suffer for it. Virtually all legislation in nations that still call themselves democracies now passes through the filters of corporate lobbyists and corporate-funded think-tanks: democracy itself is at risk.

The main engine of corporatism - the chink in governmental law that makes it possible for corporations to so corrupt governmental processes - is an obscure legal doctrine first embraced in 1886 by the Reporter of the U.S. Supreme Court called "corporate personhood." This doctrine suggests that non-living, non-breathing entities called corporations should have the same rights the Founders of democracy defined (in the US in the "Bill of Rights") first for white men, and were extended after the U.S. Civil War to freed slaves, and to women and more fully to people of color in the 1960s via several different anti-discrimination laws.

It turns out that this doctrine of corporations as "persons" was a mistake from the beginning: while the reporter wrote that the Court had agreed with corporate personhood, the court itself, and its chief justice, had specifically and repeatedly ruled against it. (You'll find a photograph of the actual handwritten letter from Morrison R. Waite, the U.S. Supreme Court's Chief Justice, on my website: he said: "we avoided meeting the constitutional question [of corporate personhood] in the decision.")

But because of the words of the reporter, and the promotion of those words by corporations in the decades following 1886, corporations have seized so many "human rights" that they can now prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from performing inspections of their factories by claiming 4th Amendment "privacy rights." They claim they can give unlimited money to politicians - a process that before 1886 was called bribery and was criminal behavior for corporations in virtually all states - by claiming that they are entitled to 1st Amendment free speech rights. They claim that if the majority of the citizens of a local community do not want them to do business in that community, then they are the victims of "discrimination" and can sue that community and its elected officials.

Even though corporations are not alive and cannot vote, they claim the right to influence elections. Even though they do not need fresh water to drink or clean air to breathe, they claim the right to influence the government agencies that were created to regulate them. Even though they have no color or creed or religion, they claim that human people who speak against them are violating their civil rights. Even though they can live for hundreds of years and are not harmed by asbestos, arsenic, tobacco, or other toxins, they claim the human right of privacy to not disclose to governments or to workers and consumers the dangers they know about their own products.

So we now face a crisis that is at once environmental, political, and spiritual/moral. According to the AFL-CIO in a report released for April 28ths Workers Memorial Day, "On an average day in 2004, 152 workers lost their lives as a result of workplace injuries and diseases and another 11,780 were injured." The rate of death and disability among workers has been climbing since Bush became president for the first time in decades, in large part because funding for OSHA and mine safety have been cut. At the same time, Bill Frist and Senate and House Republicans want to wipe out asbestos victim's right to sue for damages (they promote it as "helping asbestos victims"), to protect companies like Halliburton that have huge asbestos liabilities.

How can we best return to our governments the essential values of protecting the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" of their people, and separate from our governments contamination by the profit motive, which rightly should remain in the realm of business and not politics? How do we awaken our voters from the spiritual malaise of consumerism run amok? And what are the most appropriate and practical and positive steps we can take now to remedy the damage already done to our air, food, water, and other commons by the recent insinuation of corporatism into our legislatures and high political offices?

The first part of the answer is for us to awaken to the very real moral and spiritual dilemma we face. This a moral and spiritual dilemma because it transcends politics: it literally means life or death for our citizens and our planet.

Next, we must show up at the ballot box and send clear messages to our elected officials to correct this illness in our body politic. And, then (or perhaps concurrently), we must convince our governments to use their powers of persuasion (through policies like tax breaks and other incentives) to promote renewable and non-toxic forms of energy, agriculture, and medicine, and re-empower our regulatory agencies which have been so badly infiltrated and taken over by the very corporations they were put in place to constrain.

If we do this, and do it soon, our children may still inherit a world that can is just and decent and healthy.

 

[midcan5]

They believe that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector.

One wonders why people still believe that after Enron, Worldcom, SLA scandal, the internet meltdown, the real estate meltdown, and many many more. It almost seems the federal government does a better job? Consider SS cost 3.5% of it input to run and you know the public sector would have a hard time doing better. Myths die hard.

 

[Gunny]

One wonders why people still believe that after Enron, Worldcom, SLA scandal, the internet meltdown, the real estate meltdown, and many many more. It almost seems the federal government does a better job? Consider SS cost 3.5% of it input to run and you know the public sector would have a hard time doing better. Myths die hard.

You mean like convincing you that your precious social handout programs are worthless? Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Charles_Main]

How many more issues does Obama need to "revise his stance on" before he takes the title of Greatest flip flopper?

 

[jreeves]

One wonders why people still believe that after Enron, Worldcom, SLA scandal, the internet meltdown, the real estate meltdown, and many many more. It almost seems the federal government does a better job? Consider SS cost 3.5% of it input to run and you know the public sector would have a hard time doing better. Myths die hard.

Does SS cost of 3.5% include the 2 trillion dollars missing from the trust fund?

 

[Chris]

How many more issues does Obama need to "revise his stance on" before he takes the title of Greatest flip flopper?

This is the latest talking point of the Republicans flying monkeys of the blogsphere.

As Stephen Colbert said, "George Bush is a man who believes on Wednesday what he believed on Monday regardless of what happened on Tuesday."

 

[Gunny]

This is the latest talking point of the Republicans flying monkeys of the blogsphere.

As Stephen Colbert said, "George Bush is a man who believes on Wednesday what he believed on Monday regardless of what happened on Tuesday."

What does Bush have to do with the post you quoted? Nothing. Bush isn't running for President.

And your boy has been backpeddaling his ass off on more than one occasion, so STFU. This is just the latest talking point of leftwingnuts and their 2nd grade game of playing tit-for-tat.

By God, they called our boy a flip-flopper. Well, we'll show them. We'll call every Republican from now on a flip-flopper and see what they got on that.

Grow up. Politicians change stances when the wind changes direction.

 

[Charles_Main]

Just a few issues I think Obama has made drastic changes on.

Iraq time table.

Iraq Surge (said 30k troops would not help, Now says he always knew 30k more troops would improve things)

FISA (called it illegal and unconstitutional, and then voted for it)

Public campaign Financing (said he was going to take it, then decided not too)

Iran (it was a puny non threat of a nation, then all of the sudden a grave threat)

Talking to amagannakillyouall In Iran.

Gun control.

Thats just a few I am sure I could come up with more if I was not half drunk and tired as hell

Of course McCain is a flip flopper too don't get me wrong.
See I can admit both sides are fucked, can you?

 

[midcan5]

Does SS cost of 3.5% include the 2 trillion dollars missing from the trust fund?

Irrelevant to the point. Social security is the primary support for millions of Americans, the poor and the working poor, in particular it helps older woman. The figures are staggering.

If the democratic party were smart they would be telling the public this, day in, and day out, as it is a subject the average working stiff understands. Giving the money to the crooks who have brought you SLA, Enron et al, subprime mess is like giving the key to your house to a crook. It is why SS is now a dead issue for the party of the rich and the corporation the GOP.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

John McCain on the Issues

Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions. (Jan 2000)
We need personal savings accounts. (Oct 2007) SS

 

[editec]

You mean like convincing you that your precious social handout programs are worthless? Pot, meet kettle.

Worthless?

SSI saved my family when I got sick.

I paid into it for 35 years and it was there for me when I needed it.

Hardly worthless to me, sport.

Social Security cannot be blamed for the fact that our government spent all the extra money my generation put into it to keep it stable and in the black.

Blame the Republicans and the Democrats for it.

Blame yourselves for allowing the POLS to raid that fund so that they didn't have to increase you FICA taxes to pay for all the crap they spend it on.

 

[sealybobo]

Liberals are all idiots....My proof.....


Sealybobo(liberal)-----

"Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do."

Originally Posted by sealybobo
Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do.

Sealybobo(liberal)-----

"Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do."

 

[sealybobo]

The HUGE McCain Blunder No One Knows About....Yet
by slinkerwink
Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 0335 AM PDT

I was researching McCain's past position on the war in Afghanistan, and came across this very interesting Meet The Press transcript from October 21st, 2001. This transcript reveals a very intriguing blunder by John McCain that should be discussed in the press today.

He said that he thought the war in Afghanistan should be settled first before going to war with Iraq. This simply puts to lie his arguments on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. He used to think that it was important to have everything in Afghanistan settled first, Osama bin Laden caught, and the Taliban regime extinguished before going to war with Iraq. Senator Joe Lieberman also makes a cameo in this transcript.


Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman On Meet The Press, October 21st, 2001:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/specials/at...

RUSSERT: Would you have any problem expanding President Bush's orders to the CIA to go after Osama bin Laden to include Saddam Hussein?

LIEBERMAN: Well, I leave that to the president. But as a matter of principle and morality, of course not.

RUSSERT: Senator McCain?

MCCAIN: I think Joe's right.

And I would just like to add one additional point. I believe that we will succeed. We will endure in Afghanistan. We will take out bin Laden, and we will take out the Taliban. And then we've got a major challenge of a stable government, but...

RUSSERT: How long will that take?

MCCAIN: I think the longer we give the impression that we're there for, the shorter it'll be. Because, as you quoted from articles earlier, they think they can outlast us. I don't think they can this time.

RUSSERT: Do you believe the American people will continue to stay with that campaign?

MCCAIN: Absolutely, and I think the president is doing a great job in leading America and making us aware of the challenge we face.

But I think the real crunch is going to come after Afghanistan is settled and then we have to address the other countries, including Iraq. That's where the coalition may not be so strong. That's where people like the Saudis and the French and many others may have real reservations.

And so, we're going to have to be steadfast. And again, the president will continue and, I think, very eloquently stated, countries that harbor these terrorist organizations will be held responsible, so it'll be their choice, not ours. It'll be their choice.

 

[Yurt]

maybe it has been asked....

so the candidate with the "most" flip flops, that is the worst candidate? obviously "some" flip flops are ok, midcan et al are still voting for obama....so where is the line or magical number?

 

[jreeves]

The HUGE McCain Blunder No One Knows About....Yet
by slinkerwink
Thu Jul 17, 2008 at 0335 AM PDT

I was researching McCain's past position on the war in Afghanistan, and came across this very interesting Meet The Press transcript from October 21st, 2001. This transcript reveals a very intriguing blunder by John McCain that should be discussed in the press today.

He said that he thought the war in Afghanistan should be settled first before going to war with Iraq. This simply puts to lie his arguments on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. He used to think that it was important to have everything in Afghanistan settled first, Osama bin Laden caught, and the Taliban regime extinguished before going to war with Iraq. Senator Joe Lieberman also makes a cameo in this transcript.


Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman On Meet The Press, October 21st, 2001:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/specials/at...

RUSSERT: Would you have any problem expanding President Bush's orders to the CIA to go after Osama bin Laden to include Saddam Hussein?

LIEBERMAN: Well, I leave that to the president. But as a matter of principle and morality, of course not.

RUSSERT: Senator McCain?

MCCAIN: I think Joe's right.

And I would just like to add one additional point. I believe that we will succeed. We will endure in Afghanistan. We will take out bin Laden, and we will take out the Taliban. And then we've got a major challenge of a stable government, but...

RUSSERT: How long will that take?

MCCAIN: I think the longer we give the impression that we're there for, the shorter it'll be. Because, as you quoted from articles earlier, they think they can outlast us. I don't think they can this time.

RUSSERT: Do you believe the American people will continue to stay with that campaign?

MCCAIN: Absolutely, and I think the president is doing a great job in leading America and making us aware of the challenge we face.

But I think the real crunch is going to come after Afghanistan is settled and then we have to address the other countries, including Iraq. That's where the coalition may not be so strong. That's where people like the Saudis and the French and many others may have real reservations.

And so, we're going to have to be steadfast. And again, the president will continue and, I think, very eloquently stated, countries that harbor these terrorist organizations will be held responsible, so it'll be their choice, not ours. It'll be their choice.

Not that I don't trust you, but I will not debate you without first confirming the information that you are presenting is legit. The link you provided is no good. I'm not saying that you purposefully misrepresented something, but from your past posts I wouldn't put it past you.

 

[jreeves]

Irrelevant to the point. Social security is the primary support for millions of Americans, the poor and the working poor, in particular it helps older woman. The figures are staggering.

If the democratic party were smart they would be telling the public this, day in, and day out, as it is a subject the average working stiff understands. Giving the money to the crooks who have brought you SLA, Enron et al, subprime mess is like giving the key to your house to a crook. It is why SS is now a dead issue for the party of the rich and the corporation the GOP.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

John McCain on the Issues

Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions. (Jan 2000)
We need personal savings accounts. (Oct 2007) SS

Actually this is what you said....

Consider SS cost 3.5% of it input to run and you know the public sector would have a hard time doing better. Myths die hard.

Which is a blatant lie considering there is over 2 trillion dollars gone from the SS trust fund.....

 

[jreeves]

Worthless?

SSI saved my family when I got sick.

I paid into it for 35 years and it was there for me when I needed it.

Hardly worthless to me, sport.

Social Security cannot be blamed for the fact that our government spent all the extra money my generation put into it to keep it stable and in the black.

Blame the Republicans and the Democrats for it.

Blame yourselves for allowing the POLS to raid that fund so that they didn't have to increase you FICA taxes to pay for all the crap they spend it on.[/QUOTE]

Now, Now they wouldn't even have to consider raising FICA taxes if they hadn't spent 2 trillion more dollars than they had....right?

 

[jreeves]

Originally Posted by sealybobo
Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do.

Sealybobo(liberal)-----

"Gop voters are so dumb. the gop doesn't care about gays, flip floping, drug use, fiscal responsibility, guns, abrtion, illegal immigration, race, global warming. they prove that everytime they get caught being hypocritical. they flip flop mccain, are gay larry craig, use drugs rush limbaugh and bush, spend more than dems and grew the government.

how many times do they have to disappoint you before you leave them? you are the abused wife in the relationship.

they only care about the richest ppl in america. they use wedge issues because they need your dumb ass vote.

you are truly ignorant. the democratic party disappoints us too sometimes, but the gop is all about the rich, and you aren't rich. and they disappoint you on every other issue.

and you are too brainwashed to even get disappointed.

the dems disappointed me with the recent fisa vote. when was the last time the gop disappointed you? you defend everything they do."

More proof at least this liberal is an idiot....

 

[Charles_Main]

More proof at least this liberal is an idiot....

He just pretends he is not a liberal, and only a conservative that is fed up, to try and gain credibility with us.

Problem is nearly all of is wonderful ideas are liberal