McCain collaborated

[mightypeon]

For hells sake, I am certainly not Republican, but McCains action under an extreme situation like he was in are the absolutly last thing I would attack about him.
I would attack him for his belliciosity concerning Georgia, i would attack him for not having a lot of economic experience, but not for what he did or not did while beeing wounded, propably isolated, deprived of nutrition and tortured.


Considering the "punishment" for collaboration, not even the Nazis punished German PoWs who gave out information while they were held by US or USSR forces (and both of that happened quite a lot). And I can assure that the Red Army was propably more nasty to Wehrmacht prisoners than the North Vietnamese Army to US ones. IIRC only about 5000 of the 100.000 captured in Stalingrad survived. However, the survival quota of Soviets captured by the Wehrmacht in the opening stage was even lower.

 

[editec]

McCain collaborated with the NVA. Don't shoot the messenger.

McCain was a prisoner of War of a people who use psychological and physical torture.

I don't give a damn if he wiped his ass with an American flag and denounced the USA as a war criminal nation before a court in the Hague to be honest with you.

He was a POW, and you truly have no idea what can be done to people under those circumstances.

He's a HERO for Christ's sakes.

And shame on you for buying into this crap.

 

[DiveCon]

McCain collaborated with the NVA. Don't shoot the messenger.

McCain was a prisoner of War of a people who use psychological and physical torture.

I don't give a damn if he wiped his ass with an American flag and denounced the USA as a war criminal nation before a court in the Hague to be honest with you.

He was a POW, and you truly have no idea what can be done to people under those circumstances.

He's a HERO for Christ's sakes.

And shame on you for buying into this crap.

yet you've been agreeing with this asshole on other threads
think about what you do before you do it

 

[strollingbones]

McCain collaborated with the NVA. Don't shoot the messenger.

McCain was a prisoner of War of a people who use psychological and physical torture.

I don't give a damn if he wiped his ass with an American flag and denounced the USA as a war criminal nation before a court in the Hague to be honest with you.

He was a POW, and you truly have no idea what can be done to people under those circumstances.

He's a HERO for Christ's sakes.

And shame on you for buying into this crap.

yet you've been agreeing with this asshole on other threads
think about what you do before you do it

nothing wrong with agreeing and disagreeing with people...its not a blanket thing...i dont always agree with you....nor do i always disagree with you

 

[Yukon]

So rather than avoid any unpleasentness if a soldier is captured he should just tell all. Forget name, rank, and serial number tell everything you know. After all when you get home you can spin a story and all the bleeding heart, right-wing, knee jerk Christian zealots will forgive you. To hades with honour and decency and courage just "spill your guts".

The difference between you and I my child is that I really do subscribe to a code of honour - you don't ! I have no pity or sympathy for a yellow dog coward.

 

[DiveCon]

McCain was a prisoner of War of a people who use psychological and physical torture.

I don't give a damn if he wiped his ass with an American flag and denounced the USA as a war criminal nation before a court in the Hague to be honest with you.

He was a POW, and you truly have no idea what can be done to people under those circumstances.

He's a HERO for Christ's sakes.

And shame on you for buying into this crap.

yet you've been agreeing with this asshole on other threads
think about what you do before you do it

nothing wrong with agreeing and disagreeing with people...its not a blanket thing...i dont always agree with you....nor do i always disagree with you

sorry, but an asshole, is an asshole

 

[Yukon]

[/QUOTE] sorry, but an asshole, is an asshole [/QUOTE]

DivCon,
You should know.....................

 

[del]

sorry, but an asshole, is an asshole [/QUOTE]

DivCon,
You should know.....................[/QUOTE]

of course he knows; he's read your posts.

 

[DiveCon]

DivCon,
You should know.....................

yup i would
i recognized you as an asshole near to your first post

 

[Shogun]

Why would a single American give a fuck about the opinion of a Canadian regarding a war that his pussy ass country didn't really get involved in?

 

[mightypeon]

Its nice to see that fairly widespread agreeings between left and right posters are possible.

 

[Yukon]

Why would a single American give a fuck about the opinion of a Canadian regarding a war that his pussy ass country didn't really get involved in?

I beg your pardon. We were very deeply involved in the Vietnam war. We allowed draft dodgers to come to Canada and stay. Just like the US did in before entering WWII, (Germans were allowed to walk around freely and commit sabatoge on allied shipping out of New York)

 

[Gunny]

XENOPHOBE,

He collaborated with the NVA and you know it.

I'm about sick of YOU.

Prove it, bitch. And none of your long-winded bullshit. Produce some facts and/or evidence or shut the fuck up.

 

[Gunny]

Obviously Conservative/Republicans will not answer a direct question re. McCain collaborating. I'm not at all surprised though.

Obviously I responded with the facts. You responded with nothing. Come on mouth, bring your fucking game or sit your ass back down on the bench and shut the fuck up.

 

[Gunny]

okay i will wade in here....some background...my father was at ft bragg when the last big number of pow's returned from vietnam...first...most pows broke or collaborated or whatever the hell you wish to call it....reason..torture....now take into mind...mccain and the other men were pow's for how long....they didnt break day 1 or day 2 but normally after long bouts of torture....the information they had at the time they were captured was outdated by the time they broke...making no difference to either side...more simply a pr game...we can break your soldiers etc...i wonder yukon what it would take to make you spill your guts...how much pain can you endure? how stoic are you? give examples please of pain you have endured...

i dont think anyone knows the hell these men went thru...i remember one lady...her husband was declared dead..she remarried one of his closets friends after a while..he came home in that group of last pow's...her current husband vomitted every time he looked at her...knowing his friend had just come home to find him married to his wife...and this was after the hell supposely ended...

dont dare judge these men...dont judge the ones who did well or the one who didnt do well...at some point ...all they could do was survive

Breaking under torture and collaboration ate two distinctly different things. Collaboration is voluntary.

 

[Yukon]

I see there is no point debating this any further, the topic has been reduced to foul, abusive, and vile attacks.

 

[Gunny]

The US Military Code of Conduct states " If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way".

If any American POW violated this code he should be brought to trial and be imprisoned, at worst he should be executed by firing squad. I doubt there were many cowards as some of you claim. The US Military is, was, and always will be an honourable institution with no place for COWARDLY traitors.

I shall repeat for your edification:

Article V, Code of Conduct

"When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause. "

Posting Article IV and misrepresenting it is about what I would expect from an idiot of your caliber. Here's your explanation to Article IV:

Explanation: Officers and noncommissioned officers shall continue to carry out their responsibilities and exercise their authority in captivity.

Informing, or any other action detrimental to a fellow POW, is despicable and is expressly forbidden. POWs especially must avoid helping the enemy to identify fellow POWs who may have knowledge of value to the enemy and who may be made to suffer coercive interrogation.

Strong leadership is essential to discipline. Without discipline, camp organization, resistance, and even survival may be impossible.

Personal hygiene, camp sanitation, and care of the sick and wounded are imperative.

Wherever located, POWs should organize in a military manner under the senior military POW eligible for command. The senior POW (whether officer or enlisted) in the POW camp or among a group of POWs shall assume command according to rank without regard to Military Service. The senior POW cannot evade that responsibility and accountability.

When taking command, the senior POW shall inform the other POWs and shall designate the chain of command. If the senior POW is

incapacitated, or is otherwise unable to act for any reason, the next senior POW shall assume command. Every effort shall be made to inform all POWs in the camp (or group) of the members of the chain of command who shall represent them in dealing with enemy authorities. The responsibility of subordinates to obey the lawful orders of ranking American military personnel remains unchanged in captivity.

U.S. policy on POW camp organization requires that the senior military POW assume command. The Geneva Convention on POWs provides additional guidance to the effect that in POW camps containing only enlisted personnel, a prisoners' representative shall be elected. POWs should understand that such an elected representative is regarded by U.S. policy as only a spokesperson for the senior POW. The prisoners' representative does not have command, unless the POWs elect the senior POW to be the prisoners' representative. The senior POW shall assume and retain actual command, covertly if necessary.

Maintaining communications is one of the most important ways that POWs aid one another. Communication breaks down the barriers of isolation that an enemy may attempt to construct and helps strengthen a POW's will to resist. Each POW, immediately upon capture, shall try to make contact with fellow POWs by any means available and, thereafter, shall continue to communicate and participate vigorously as part of the POW organization.

As with other provisions of the CoC, common sense and the conditions in the POW camp shall determine the way in which the senior POW and the other POWs structure their organization and carry out their responsibilities.

What Military Personnel Need to Know: Specifically, Service members should:

* Understand that leadership and obedience to those in command are essential to the discipline required to effect successful organization against captor exploitation. In captivity situations involving two or more POWs, the senior ranking POW shall assume command; all others shall obey the orders and abide by the decisions of the senior POW regardless of differences in Military Service affiliations. Failure to do so shall result in the weakening of organization, a lowering of resistance, and, after repatriation, may result in legal proceedings under the Uniform Code of Military Justice(UCMJ).
* Understand that faith, trust, and individual group loyalties have great value in establishing and maintaining an effective POW organization.
* Understand that a POW who voluntarily informs or collaborates with the captor is disloyal to the United States and fellow POWs and, after repatriation, is subject to disciplinary action under the UCMJ for such actions.

* Be familiar with the principles of hygiene, sanitation, health maintenance, first aid, physical conditioning, and food use. It shall include recognition and emergency self-treatment of typical POW camp illnesses by emergency use of primitive materials and available substances (e.g., toothpaste, salt, and charcoal). Such knowledge exerts an important influence on POW ability to resist and assists an effective POW organization.
* Understand the importance of, and the basic procedures for, establishing secure communications between separated individuals and groups of POWs attempting to establish and maintain an effective organization.
* Be familiar with the major ethnic (to include racial demographics), cultural and national characteristics of the enemy that may affect POW-captor relationships to the detriment of individual POWs and the POW organization.
* Understand that an informer or collaborator should be insulated from sensitive information on POW organization, but members of the POW organization should continually encourage and try to persuade the collaborator to cease such activities.
* Welcoming a repentant collaborator "back to the fold" is generally a more effective POW organizational approach than continued isolation, which may encourage the collaborator to continue such disloyal conduct.
* Understand that there is a significant difference between the collaborator who must be persuaded to return and the resister who, only after having been physically or mentally tortured, complies with a captor's improper demand (such as to provide information or a propaganda statement). The collaborator's conduct is reprehensible and cannot be sanctioned, whereas the resister should be given help to gather strength and resume resistance.
* Understand that in situations where military and civilian personnel are imprisoned together, the senior military POW should make every effort to persuade civilian prisoners that the Military Service member's assuming overall command leadership of the entire prisoner group, based upon experience and specific training, is advantageous to the entire prisoner community.
* Understand the need for, and the mechanics of, establishing an effective covert organization in situations where the captor attempts to prevent or frustrate a properly constituted organization.

Special Provisions for Medical Personnel & Chaplains. Medical personnel shall not assume command over nonmedical personnel and chaplains shall not assume command over military personnel of any branch. Military Service regulations that restrict eligibility of those personnel for command shall be explained to all personnel at an applicable level of understanding to preclude later confusion in a POW camp.

Code of Conduct, Article 4

Please, keep proving what an idiot you are.

 

[Gunny]

So rather than avoid any unpleasentness if a soldier is captured he should just tell all. Forget name, rank, and serial number tell everything you know. After all when you get home you can spin a story and all the bleeding heart, right-wing, knee jerk Christian zealots will forgive you. To hades with honour and decency and courage just "spill your guts".

The difference between you and I my child is that I really do subscribe to a code of honour - you don't ! I have no pity or sympathy for a yellow dog coward.

Please see my previous post for the answer to your stupid question.

Speaking of yellow dog cowards .... easy for you hide behind the anonymity of the internet and run your suck, maggot.

 

[Gunny]

I see there is no point debating this any further, the topic has been reduced to foul, abusive, and vile attacks.

That's right pussy ... run like the little bitch you are the second you get exposed for WHAT you are.

But don't worry ... feel free to post anywhere on the board. I'm going to show YOU what a fucking troll is.

 

[Article 15]

I see there is no point debating this any further, the topic has been reduced to foul, abusive, and vile attacks.

Punking out?

What a shock.