McCain and The Company He Keeps

[rayboyusmc]

[QUOTEBut I have no faith in those who cannot improvise, adapt and overcome in politics anymore than I would want a closed-minded bot commanding any unit I was in on a battlefield.][/QUOTE]

So to get clarification on McCain's change on the tax cuts for the rich.

Is that a change based on new evidence, or a flip flop based on getting votes?

 

[jillian]

But I have no faith in those who cannot improvise, adapt and overcome in politics anymore than I would want a closed-minded bot commanding any unit I was in on a battlefield.

Then what was that whole Kerry "voted for it before he voted against it thing?"

Seems that and the swiftboaters was Baby Bush's whole campaign last time ....

Guess when it's a repub it's all good, eh?

 

[Annie]

Thank you Gunny. You win the Kewpie doll. Just my point.

If you accept the support of someone like Hagee to gain votes, then you are giving credence to his teachings and belief.

Kathiane, if you can criticize Obama for having a pastor who's statements he denounces, I can criticize McCain for accepting the support of mr. Rupture or Rapture, Hagee.

I keep hoping that somewhere along the line, we will get down to what is really important in these elections and discuss the stupid little issues like the war, the economy, FISA, the housing market, job loss and other incosequential crap like that.

Obama is not a terrorist just because his middle name is Hussein or because he is Black and White.

What will McCain, Clinton or Obama as president do for this country? :

Actually we are both still free to criticize any politician we like, great country. It's which argument carries more weight. I'll take your endorsement and the votes it will get me, ta ta; vs. someone who chooses a church, sits there more than at Christmas listening to the messages-good and bad, gets married there, donates substantial monies, etc.

 

[Dogger]

Actually we are both still free to criticize any politician we like, great country. It's which argument carries more weight. I'll take your endorsement and the votes it will get me, ta ta; vs. someone who chooses a church, sits there more than at Christmas listening to the messages-good and bad, gets married there, donates substantial monies, etc.

How do you feel about judging candidates on who they choose to run their campaigns? For instance, Obama went to Wright's church whereas Clinton had Mark Penn run her campaign?

 

[Gunny]

Then what was that whole Kerry "voted for it before he voted against it thing?"

Ummm ... hello ... why are you asking ME? Obviously it was political propaganda. Some of us can actually see that for what it is.

You will also find that I never once uttered that phrase, nor posted it.

Seems that and the swiftboaters was Baby Bush's whole campaign last time ....

Seems to me that in your haste to accuse, you don't let the facts get in your way. The swiftboaters went after Kerry. I recall at the time you lefties trying unsuccessfully to tie them to Bush. Did work then and still doesn't.

Guess when it's a repub it's all good, eh?

You need to rethink THAT statement. Fact is, when it's a DEMOCRAT, it's all good for you. I routinely criticize Republicans on this board. Have you EVER criticized a Democrat?

But let me just clear it up for you ... your accusatory response is bullshit. I am not responsible for Republican political propaganda ... I am not responsible for swiftboaters, and you just freakin repped me this morning for criticizing Republicans.

You need to get some freash air.

 

[jillian]

Ummm ... hello ... why are you asking ME? Obviously it was political propaganda. Some of us can actually see that for what it is.

Yeah...but for some reason, the right gets way upset when the left points out ACTUAL facts... but have no problem doing the karl rove/goebbels thing.

You will also find that I never once uttered that phrase, nor posted it.

Probably true. But did you ever jump in and criticize anyone else for doing it like you would/and did someone repeating the mccain stuff? you might have, I'm just wondering.

Seems to me that in your haste to accuse, you don't let the facts get in your way. The swiftboaters went after Kerry. I recall at the time you lefties trying unsuccessfully to tie them to Bush. Did work then and still doesn't.

You still believe that? All Bush had to do was tell the 527 corp to stop. Amazing how that works. Plus, he and cheney both referred to it... which means they condoned it.

You need to rethink THAT statement. Fact is, when it's a DEMOCRAT, it's all good for you. I routinely criticize Republicans on this board. Have you EVER criticized a Democrat?

But let me just clear it up for you ... your accusatory response is bullshit. I am not responsible for Republican political propaganda ... I am not responsible for swiftboaters, and you just freakin repped me this morning for criticizing Republicans.

You need to get some freash air.

Ummmmm... wasn't I the person who told SE the idiot that John McCain was entitled to the proper use of his name and had earned it?

Yeppers... I do believe I was.

I haven't told lefties on this board that they're out of their minds? Er... we just meet? Can you say Taomon? Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft....

I'm just tired of the double standard of the right. That's all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yeah...but for some reason, the right gets way upset when the left points out ACTUAL facts... but have no problem doing the karl rove/goebbels thing.



Probably true. But did you ever jump in and criticize anyone else for doing it like you would/and did someone repeating the mccain stuff? you might have, I'm just wondering.



You still believe that? All Bush had to do was tell the 527 corp to stop. Amazing how that works. Plus, he and cheney both referred to it... which means they condoned it.



Ummmmm... wasn't I the person who told SE the idiot that John McCain was entitled to the proper use of his name and had earned it?

Yeppers... I do believe I was.

I haven't told lefties on this board that they're out of their minds? Er... we just meet? Can you say Taomon? Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft....

I'm just tired of the double standard of the right. That's all.

Funny, As I recall, the law does not allow a President to order a non profit organization to stop legally doing what it is allowed to do. Perhaps you could site some case law for us?

As for Bush HE did tell the Swiftboat people to stop, several times ON national TV. But do tell us how he secretly did not want them to.

 

[Dogger]

Bush could have fired or admonished Karl Rove and Karen Hughes for wearing Purple Heart Band-aids on Halloween. He didn't. The message was clear - they approved the Swiftboat Liars for Bush.

The ultimate sacrifice denigrated by the ultimate insult.

 

[Gunny]

It was a question, not an accusation. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I did not take it as an accusation; rather, an assumption on your part.

If only Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld understood that. Petraeus gets that, and Gates seems to get it, but they have constraints imposed from above.

If you are waitng on ME to support the way Iraq has been handled, I would advise you to not engage in the proverbial holding of one's breath.

I support being successful in Iraq since we are there. I do not support this administration's political pandering at the cost of sound military strategy, and I never have. I've been rather outspoken in my criticism of politicians playing soldier.

 

[Gunny]

[QUOTEBut I have no faith in those who cannot improvise, adapt and overcome in politics anymore than I would want a closed-minded bot commanding any unit I was in on a battlefield.]

So to get clarification on McCain's change on the tax cuts for the rich.

Is that a change based on new evidence, or a flip flop based on getting votes?[/QUOTE]

On the surface, and mind you I have only thus far seen Obama's accusation, I would say McCain is selling out for votes and political backing from the wealthy.

That's barring seeing a sound reason from McCain for doing so, and it would have to be a good one to sell me on it. I have NEVER supported special privileges for the wealthy where taxes are concerned because the burden always ends up on the backs of the middle class.

At the same time, I think Obama might as well piss into the wind as think he's going to change tax laws and cut out the shelters for the wealthy. Those wealthy folks have too much power in Congress on both sides of the aisle.

 

[Annie]

How do you feel about judging candidates on who they choose to run their campaigns? For instance, Obama went to Wright's church whereas Clinton had Mark Penn run her campaign?

I don't really want to change the subject.

 

[Gunny]

Yeah...but for some reason, the right gets way upset when the left points out ACTUAL facts... but have no problem doing the karl rove/goebbels thing.

Pot calling the kettle black. However, besides the point. When you address ME, I expect the courtesy of at least addressing what I have stated and/or any stance I might take. Not ones that get dreamed up for me.

Probably true. But did you ever jump in and criticize anyone else for doing it like you would/and did someone repeating the mccain stuff? you might have, I'm just wondering.

As a matter of fact I did on several occasions.

You still believe that? All Bush had to do was tell the 527 corp to stop. Amazing how that works. Plus, he and cheney both referred to it... which means they condoned it.

Yes I believe it because no actual fact has ever been presented to prove otherwise. There is not a presumption of guilt for the right while a presumption of innocence for the left. That hypocrisy is WAY obvious.

Ummmmm... wasn't I the person who told SE the idiot that John McCain was entitled to the proper use of his name and had earned it?

Yeppers... I do believe I was.

I wouldn't know.

I haven't told lefties on this board that they're out of their minds? Er... we just meet? Can you say Taomon? Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft....

I'm just tired of the double standard of the right. That's all.

yeah I can say Taomon. I can also say he isn't exactly what anyone would call your average liberal, and you hardly called him on any of his political beliefs.

As far as the double standard goes, you present as obvious a double standard between right and left as anyone here. You have YET to hold Democrat candidates to any standard at all, much less the same Christ-like standard you expect of Republicans.

Back to the origin ... your statement regarding McCain and how you wish to present his "paying back" his supporters is bullshit. Plain and simple.

Applying the same standard to Obama, and for more than the first time ... does this mean because he has Louis Farrakhan's endorsement that he embraces Louis Farrakhan's racist ideology, or what? I don't recall hearing Obama turn that support down, or the votes that will go with it.

 

[Alpha1]

Now now Gunny....Everyones entitled to an opinion, no matter how stupid it is...

 

[Annie]

Well, there's certainly enough material...

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=mccain+flip+flop&search_type=

Really? Funny thing is you didn't acknowledge that it was the suggestion of Tom Ridge led to you 'pandering to the right wing', yet it was. It's the lack of flip flopping that has you all in a tizzy.

I'm not keen on McCain, probably for the same reasons that the Dems are getting a might nervous that he may beat either Obama or Clinton.

 

[Dogger]

I don't really want to change the subject.

You were slamming Obama for Rev. Wright. I thought the subject was guilt by association.

How do you feel about judging candidates on who they choose to run their campaigns?

 

[jillian]

Really? Funny thing is you didn't acknowledge that it was the suggestion of Tom Ridge led to you 'pandering to the right wing', yet it was. It's the lack of flip flopping that has you all in a tizzy.

I'm not keen on McCain, probably for the same reasons that the Dems are getting a might nervous that he may beat either Obama or Clinton.

I'm not sure what you're asking. But yes, he was asked about Tom Ridge... and then told Chris Matthews that his VP had to feel the pain of the unborn... that leaves out Tom Ridge.

 

[Alpha1]

I'm not sure what you're asking. But yes, he was asked about Tom Ridge... and then told Chris Matthews that his VP had to feel the pain of the unborn... that leaves out Tom Ridge.

Do you put any thought into the posts you make?

Are you saying that being 'pro choice' makes you unable to 'feel the pain of the unborn' ?

Do you think the two ideas are mutually exclusive....?

Do you believe that even if some find abortion repulsive and would never consider it for themselves, they might feel its still an individual, personal choice....

 

[jillian]

Do you put any thought into the posts you make?

Are you saying that being 'pro choice' makes you unable to 'feel the pain of the unborn' ?

Do you think the two ideas are mutually exclusive....?

Do you believe that even if some find abortion repulsive and would never consider it for themselves, they might feel its still an individual, personal choice....

Again, you didn't hear McCain's comments.... to anyone who actually gives a damn about protecting Roe v Wade, they were stomach-turning (regardless of whether we think abortion is a painful choice).

But he did wax eloquent about the "sanctity of the lives of the unborn". And yes, that DOES leave out Tom Ridge.... and anyone else who is pro-choice.

Try actually listening to/reading source material before you spew, or at least understand the conversation at hand. It's getting annoying repeatedly having to bring you up to speed.

 

[Annie]

I'm not sure what you're asking. But yes, he was asked about Tom Ridge... and then told Chris Matthews that his VP had to feel the pain of the unborn... that leaves out Tom Ridge.

This, earlier:

http://usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=674434&postcount=20

 

[jillian]

This, earlier:

http://usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=674434&postcount=20

No offense Kathianne. I saw the show. I'm not really interesting in someone saying there's a "misconception" because that's a lie. McCain was really clear in his verbiage.

He could stand on his head, do a somersault, cure the common cold... he wouldn't get my vote ever... under any circumstances... "sanctity of the life of the unborn"... yah... that's verbiage of someone pro-choice.

It reminds me of a joke my husband tells (I don't know if it's a true story or not) but basically, Willie Nelson's wife gets home one day to find him in bed with another woman. Wifey gets enraged and starts telling him "how could you do this to me...", etc...etc.... Willie looks at her straightfaced and says "honey, I wasn't with another woman". His wife says "what are you talking about? I saw you.". To which Willie responds "What are you going to believe; what you see or what I tell you?"

McCain was reeeeeeeeeeeeal clear on Hardball,...there weren't any "misconceptions". And I don't care What anyone says. He owes the good rev's for their endorsments. That's why he went to Bob Jones U.... My rights are their payback.

No thanks.