MARTIN: No sign of fight

[Immanuel]

Yup being impartial again, all the evidence points to Zimmerman telling the truth, BUT you are going to go with a mortician.

No, Zimmerman's story is inconsistent. He was attacked from behind and knocked down with one hit, but that one hit broke his nose. Knocked down from behind, but ended up on his back. The physical evidence is not consistent with so brutal of an attack as Zimmerman would have us believe. He should have been much more severely injured.

The problem is that neither side is consistent. I have tried to avoid the reported "facts" in this story, because, it seems to me that neither side is telling the truth. I suspect the actual facts lie somewhere in between the two stories.

I would venture a hypothetical scenario in regards to your statement. Suppose Martin did attack Zimmerman from behind and knocked him to the ground rather than "punching" him in the nose, causing him to fall face first to the ground hitting his face on the ground or something else on the way down. Martin would not have bruised his knuckles in this case. Zimmerman got turned around on his back before Martin jumped on him and started pounding his head into the ground.

That is all hypothetical. I don't know what happened. I keep hearing all of these "facts" that dispute other "facts" about this case. I don't know what happened. What I do know is that it is a tragedy that Trayvon Martin is no longer with us and his parents have to suffer through the pain of burying their son. I feel for them.

Regardless of what Trayvon was doing there, he did not deserve to die.

I also feel for George Zimmerman. I suspect this will eat at his soul for the rest of his life. I stand by what I said when I first posted regarding this subject. George Zimmerman deserves the presumption of innocence that this country claims to believe in until it has been proven in a court of law that he committed a crime. If he did commit a crime he should be punished for it.

I also believe that the investigators have been unfairly "convicted" of racism by the left. It is a shame what has been done to these investigators simply for doing their jobs.

Immie

 

[Peach]

And when SA Corey makes a decision, the other half will pay the price, WHICHEVER way she goes with the matter.

Price for what ?

More cr*p stirred up.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Martin had absolutely no reason what so ever to fear for his life just because Zimmerman was trying to ask him what he was doing there.

Martin was minding his own business when a strange person started following him and cornered him. That creates a pretty good reason to become fearful.

Martin had absolutely no right to hit Zimmerman unless Zimmerman struck him first.

You're right. But the only way to explain this whole thing would seem to be that Zimmerman approached Martin and tried to physically detain him. That would have given Martin a legitimate reason to be fearful and to defend himself.

I am taller & more buff than Zimmerman & I have never seen anyone run away from me when I approached them unless they were up to something.

Martin was walking through a neighborhood at night, minding his own business. He saw a strange person watching him from his vehicle, and then get out to start following him. You can't tell me that if you were in Martin's shoes you wouldn't find this kind of thing odd and concerning.

If Martin was going to "Stand His Ground" he would have stopped right where he was & found out what Zimmerman wanted.

Oh, so Stand your Ground doesn't apply to Martin because he tried to flee, but it applies to Zimmerman who chased Martin down? That makes no sense from a logical point of view. Your argument is made worse by the fact that the stand your ground law doesn't apply either way in this case.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The problem is that neither side is consistent.

There's only one side being told in any of this. Trayvon is dead. Other than the girlfriend's account of their phone conversation, only Zimmerman's side is being told. And his own story is inconsistent, both with itself and with the evidence.

I would venture a hypothetical scenario in regards to your statement. Suppose Martin did attack Zimmerman from behind and knocked him to the ground rather than "punching" him in the nose, causing him to fall face first to the ground hitting his face on the ground or something else on the way down. Martin would not have bruised his knuckles in this case. Zimmerman got turned around on his back before Martin jumped on him and started pounding his head into the ground. [/quote]

Sure, that would be possibly, hypothetically. But it would still not be consistent with Zimmerman's story or the physical evidence. If Zimmerman's nose had been broken from falling on his face on the pavement, he would have had significant abrasions to the face. Falling on your face like that hard enough to break your nose is an extremely difficult thing to do, though, if not impossible. Instinct will cause a person to extend their arms to brace their fall, and either to raise their head to avoid a facial collision or turn their face to the side, or both. Even if we were to further assume that the blow hit Zimmerman so hard that he momentarily lost conscious, such unconscious falls tend to catch the lower portion of the face and would be much more likely to broken or dislodged teeth. Several years ago my father had a sudden stroke that caused him to faceplant on the paved driveway outside of his house. He lost two teeth, but barely scraped his nose.

That is all hypothetical. I don't know what happened. I keep hearing all of these "facts" that dispute other "facts" about this case. I don't know what happened. What I do know is that it is a tragedy that Trayvon Martin is no longer with us and his parents have to suffer through the pain of burying their son. I feel for them.

The main problem I see is that Zimmerman's accounts cannot be accepted because of their inconsistencies. He's lying. About what exactly, we might not know. But he's definitely lying.

I also feel for George Zimmerman. I suspect this will eat at his soul for the rest of his life.

I don't. George Zimmerman crossed the line, pursued someone he should not have, was entirely overzealous, and has proven to be an irresponsible gun owner. Based on everything that's been coming out I've come to the conclusion that the shooting was accidental. Zimmerman tried to restrain Martin, Martin resisted, a scuffle ensued and Zimmerman couldn't hold onto the upper hand. He pulled out his gun somewhere in the midst of this, hoping to scare Martin, Martin may have tried to wrestle it away from Zimmerman, and Zimmerman accidentally shot Martin in the comotion. I don't believe Zimmerman had any intention of killing anyone. But his irresponsible behavior lead to the death of an innocent teenage kid. And then he made it worse by trying to escape responsibility by lying about the kid attacking him unprovokedly. I hope it does eat at his soul for the rest of his life because it's what he deserves.

I stand by what I said when I first posted regarding this subject. George Zimmerman deserves the presumption of innocence that this country claims to believe in until it has been proven in a court of law that he committed a crime.

Presumption of innocence applies to the way the government handles the case. I embrace it as a vital necessity to preserve the rights of the people. But it doesn't mean that as a citizen paying attention to the news, I have to wait until after a trial to come to a reasoned conclusion based on the information available.

 

[California Girl]

I think the time line is something like 7:12 when the 911 call comes in to 7:51 where Zimmerman arrives at the police station. It happened pretty quickly. The "fight" was about a minute long..after which..and almost immediately..the police were on the scene. So it was incredibly brief. If there were a fight..which by the way..Zimmerman instigated by playing copper without credentials or authority to do so..it was never life threatening.

1. Zimmerman calls 911 says he lives in a community that has some recent break ins
2. He says he saw a suspicious guy maybe a black male walking around looking at homes.
2. while talking with the dispatcher he says the guy is acting strange, and starting looking his way. and started walking his way.
5. Zimmerman at this time leaves his vehicle
6. Trayvon runs away.
7. Dispatchers ask if Zimmerman is following the black male, Zimmerman says yes they say you don't have to do that He acknowledge's that with OK.
8. Zimmerman talks about meeting with the police at a certain location
9. It is at this time in my opinion while Zimmerman is heading back to his vehicle Trayvon walks up to Zimmerman and ask Zimmerman if he had a problem.
10. Zimmerman says no and at that time in my opinion Trayvon becomes the aggressor.
11. In the struggle Zimmerman said that Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun.
Now why would Zimmerman shoot Trayvon if he knew the police were in route unless Trayvon did attack Zimmerman?

I could speculate and give you some opinions why Trayvon went to hit Zimmerman and tried to take his gun, But no doubt it would be my opinion.

What you are failing to see..that even if you are completely correct..Zimmerman was completely in the wrong. It was Zimmerman that menanced Martin. What's completely wrong with the Stand Your Ground law..is that it gives the impression that the "Castle Doctrine" extends to public spaces. Both Martin and Zimmerman had every legal right to be where they were. Zimmerman acted in a manner that toward Martin that would give a normal person the sense they were in a hostile situation against a person seeking to do them harm. Any action that Martin took was in defense of his own life. Any action Zimmerman took was quite the opposite.

Trying to keep your community safe is not 'menacing' or 'aggressive'.... at least, nor for decent law abiding, community minded individuals.

 

[Liability]

The problem is that neither side is consistent.

There's only one side being told in any of this. Trayvon is dead. Other than the girlfriend's account of their phone conversation, only Zimmerman's side is being told. And his own story is inconsistent, both with itself and with the evidence.

I would venture a hypothetical scenario in regards to your statement. Suppose Martin did attack Zimmerman from behind and knocked him to the ground rather than "punching" him in the nose, causing him to fall face first to the ground hitting his face on the ground or something else on the way down. Martin would not have bruised his knuckles in this case. Zimmerman got turned around on his back before Martin jumped on him and started pounding his head into the ground.

Sure, that would be possibly, hypothetically. But it would still not be consistent with Zimmerman's story or the physical evidence. If Zimmerman's nose had been broken from falling on his face on the pavement, he would have had significant abrasions to the face. Falling on your face like that hard enough to break your nose is an extremely difficult thing to do, though, if not impossible. Instinct will cause a person to extend their arms to brace their fall, and either to raise their head to avoid a facial collision or turn their face to the side, or both. Even if we were to further assume that the blow hit Zimmerman so hard that he momentarily lost conscious, such unconscious falls tend to catch the lower portion of the face and would be much more likely to broken or dislodged teeth. Several years ago my father had a sudden stroke that caused him to faceplant on the paved driveway outside of his house. He lost two teeth, but barely scraped his nose.

That is all hypothetical. I don't know what happened. I keep hearing all of these "facts" that dispute other "facts" about this case. I don't know what happened. What I do know is that it is a tragedy that Trayvon Martin is no longer with us and his parents have to suffer through the pain of burying their son. I feel for them.

The main problem I see is that Zimmerman's accounts cannot be accepted because of their inconsistencies. He's lying. About what exactly, we might not know. But he's definitely lying.

I also feel for George Zimmerman. I suspect this will eat at his soul for the rest of his life.

I don't. George Zimmerman crossed the line, pursued someone he should not have, was entirely overzealous, and has proven to be an irresponsible gun owner. Based on everything that's been coming out I've come to the conclusion that the shooting was accidental. Zimmerman tried to restrain Martin, Martin resisted, a scuffle ensued and Zimmerman couldn't hold onto the upper hand. He pulled out his gun somewhere in the midst of this, hoping to scare Martin, Martin may have tried to wrestle it away from Zimmerman, and Zimmerman accidentally shot Martin in the comotion. I don't believe Zimmerman had any intention of killing anyone. But his irresponsible behavior lead to the death of an innocent teenage kid. And then he made it worse by trying to escape responsibility by lying about the kid attacking him unprovokedly. I hope it does eat at his soul for the rest of his life because it's what he deserves.

I stand by what I said when I first posted regarding this subject. George Zimmerman deserves the presumption of innocence that this country claims to believe in until it has been proven in a court of law that he committed a crime.

Presumption of innocence applies to the way the government handles the case. I embrace it as a vital necessity to preserve the rights of the people. But it doesn't mean that as a citizen paying attention to the news, I have to wait until after a trial to come to a reasoned conclusion based on the information available.

No. You don't in fact have the obligation to give anybody the presumption of innocence.

You have a by-God RIGHT to be a pre-judgmental stupid ignorant dick.

You clearly exercise your right.

 

[California Girl]

The problem is that neither side is consistent.

There's only one side being told in any of this. Trayvon is dead. Other than the girlfriend's account of their phone conversation, only Zimmerman's side is being told. And his own story is inconsistent, both with itself and with the evidence.

I would venture a hypothetical scenario in regards to your statement. Suppose Martin did attack Zimmerman from behind and knocked him to the ground rather than "punching" him in the nose, causing him to fall face first to the ground hitting his face on the ground or something else on the way down. Martin would not have bruised his knuckles in this case. Zimmerman got turned around on his back before Martin jumped on him and started pounding his head into the ground.

Sure, that would be possibly, hypothetically. But it would still not be consistent with Zimmerman's story or the physical evidence. If Zimmerman's nose had been broken from falling on his face on the pavement, he would have had significant abrasions to the face. Falling on your face like that hard enough to break your nose is an extremely difficult thing to do, though, if not impossible. Instinct will cause a person to extend their arms to brace their fall, and either to raise their head to avoid a facial collision or turn their face to the side, or both. Even if we were to further assume that the blow hit Zimmerman so hard that he momentarily lost conscious, such unconscious falls tend to catch the lower portion of the face and would be much more likely to broken or dislodged teeth. Several years ago my father had a sudden stroke that caused him to faceplant on the paved driveway outside of his house. He lost two teeth, but barely scraped his nose.

That is all hypothetical. I don't know what happened. I keep hearing all of these "facts" that dispute other "facts" about this case. I don't know what happened. What I do know is that it is a tragedy that Trayvon Martin is no longer with us and his parents have to suffer through the pain of burying their son. I feel for them.

The main problem I see is that Zimmerman's accounts cannot be accepted because of their inconsistencies. He's lying. About what exactly, we might not know. But he's definitely lying.

I also feel for George Zimmerman. I suspect this will eat at his soul for the rest of his life.

I don't. George Zimmerman crossed the line, pursued someone he should not have, was entirely overzealous, and has proven to be an irresponsible gun owner. Based on everything that's been coming out I've come to the conclusion that the shooting was accidental. Zimmerman tried to restrain Martin, Martin resisted, a scuffle ensued and Zimmerman couldn't hold onto the upper hand. He pulled out his gun somewhere in the midst of this, hoping to scare Martin, Martin may have tried to wrestle it away from Zimmerman, and Zimmerman accidentally shot Martin in the comotion. I don't believe Zimmerman had any intention of killing anyone. But his irresponsible behavior lead to the death of an innocent teenage kid. And then he made it worse by trying to escape responsibility by lying about the kid attacking him unprovokedly. I hope it does eat at his soul for the rest of his life because it's what he deserves.

I stand by what I said when I first posted regarding this subject. George Zimmerman deserves the presumption of innocence that this country claims to believe in until it has been proven in a court of law that he committed a crime.

Presumption of innocence applies to the way the government handles the case. I embrace it as a vital necessity to preserve the rights of the people. But it doesn't mean that as a citizen paying attention to the news, I have to wait until after a trial to come to a reasoned conclusion based on the information available.[/QUOTE]

Now that's the second 'WTF, how dumb can we get' moment.... it was the race baiting media ranting about some innocent dead black child murdered by a 'white' guy that started this bullshit..... day after day after day of it.... it took fucking days for anyone connected to Zimmerman to speak.

All you have proved with your post is that you are too dumb to remember what happened a week ago.

 

[KissMy]

No - - I'm saying that there will be no bruising on Trayvon Martin's body because his heart stopped to suddenly after hitting & being hit.

I think the funeral director wanted to get five minutes of fame.

Time to malign the Funeral Director. By the time you guys give it up, you will have thrown half of Florida under the bus.

I stand corrected on bruising. There is post-mortem bruising for a few hours after death / heart stops. There should have been marks on Martins body where he was struck. As for his hands, I have been in many fights & have very rarely bruised my hands. Martin may have also hit Zimmerman with an object instead of his hands on the one sucker punch to the nose. After that one punch by a hard fist to a soft nose the rest of the fight was Martin grabbing Zimmermans head & pounding it on the ground. Why would anyone claim there should be bruising on Martin?

There can be no claim of self defense for Martin if he was never struck or struck hard enough to make him fear for his life or risk of serious injury. Martin was absolutely in the wrong for attacking Zimmerman for trying to ask him a question. Martin was absolutly not standing his ground. Martin was the attacker. There is absolutly no case to bring against Zimmerman. None!!! Nodda!!! Zip!!!

 

[Si modo]

Martin funeral director: No signs of fight on body - CBS News
Would the victim have some injury from beating the Zimmerman senseless? There are more photos of Zimmerman in this story; no sign of injury still.


CBS News) SANFORD, Florida - The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman is neighborhood watch volunteer at the center of the case. It was almost five weeks that Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old, was killed after Zimmerman found him suspicious. We don't know what happened immediately immediately before the shot was fired. CBS News correspondent Mark Strassman has new evidence in the case.

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."

Oh?

Yeah, everyone knows how funeral directors are trained in forensics and in medicine.

 

[Ravi]

I think the funeral director wanted to get five minutes of fame.

Time to malign the Funeral Director. By the time you guys give it up, you will have thrown half of Florida under the bus.

I stand corrected on bruising. There is post-mortem bruising for a few hours after death / heart stops. There should have been marks on Martins body where he was struck. As for his hands, I have been in many fights & have very rarely bruised my hands. Martin may have also hit Zimmerman with an object instead of his hands on the one sucker punch to the nose. After that one punch by a hard fist to a soft nose the rest of the fight was Martin grabbing Zimmermans head & pounding it on the ground. Why would anyone claim there should be bruising on Martin?

There can be no claim of self defense for Martin if he was never struck or struck hard enough to make him fear for his life or risk of serious injury. Martin was absolutely in the wrong for attacking Zimmerman for trying to ask him a question. Martin was absolutly not standing his ground. Martin was the attacker. There is absolutly no case to bring against Zimmerman. None!!! Nodda!!! Zip!!!

You were there? I hadn't realized.

btw, you are absolutely allowed to attack someone that is following you if you fear your life is in danger. In Florida.

 

[FuelRod]

This is totally out of control. I have never heard of an undertaker being interviewed as if he had performed an autopsy.

 

[Liability]

Martin funeral director: No signs of fight on body - CBS News
Would the victim have some injury from beating the Zimmerman senseless? There are more photos of Zimmerman in this story; no sign of injury still.


CBS News) SANFORD, Florida - The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman is neighborhood watch volunteer at the center of the case. It was almost five weeks that Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old, was killed after Zimmerman found him suspicious. We don't know what happened immediately immediately before the shot was fired. CBS News correspondent Mark Strassman has new evidence in the case.

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."

Oh?

Yeah, everyone knows how funeral directors are trained in forensics and in medicine.

I am convinced beyond the shadow of the hint of the blurry after-image of a doubt!

A guy wearing a bow tie like that could NOT possibly be anything less than 100% certified prime grade "A" forensic genius!

Damn. That picture doesn't do it justice.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4UveRVpPF9jBEmT8izntnpbxqRZd6wc5q4RdozWrorsJltpVE

 

[FuelRod]

We're not murderers...despite what this...undertaker says.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB9cLr7OR-A]The Godfather first scene - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No - - I'm saying that there will be no bruising on Trayvon Martin's body because his heart stopped to suddenly after hitting & being hit.

I think the funeral director wanted to get five minutes of fame.

Time to malign the Funeral Director. By the time you guys give it up, you will have thrown half of Florida under the bus.

He saw a chance to get some fame and he took it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Time to malign the Funeral Director. By the time you guys give it up, you will have thrown half of Florida under the bus.

I stand corrected on bruising. There is post-mortem bruising for a few hours after death / heart stops. There should have been marks on Martins body where he was struck. As for his hands, I have been in many fights & have very rarely bruised my hands. Martin may have also hit Zimmerman with an object instead of his hands on the one sucker punch to the nose. After that one punch by a hard fist to a soft nose the rest of the fight was Martin grabbing Zimmermans head & pounding it on the ground. Why would anyone claim there should be bruising on Martin?

There can be no claim of self defense for Martin if he was never struck or struck hard enough to make him fear for his life or risk of serious injury. Martin was absolutely in the wrong for attacking Zimmerman for trying to ask him a question. Martin was absolutly not standing his ground. Martin was the attacker. There is absolutly no case to bring against Zimmerman. None!!! Nodda!!! Zip!!!

You were there? I hadn't realized.

btw, you are absolutely allowed to attack someone that is following you if you fear your life is in danger. In Florida.

And you were there to be able to dispute the evidence and witness statements?