Mars? After he guts the Space Program?

[HUGGY]

Not likely. He'll be dead by 2044. After gutting the program, it's gonna take decades upon decades--well beyond 2044--to fully fund and properly rebuild it.

What a dumbfuck....he SO in over his head and refuses to see it.

"why go to mars anyway?"

The dumbfucks are you two dipshits. We were having a great discussion and the only thing the two of you added was ignorance.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-he-guts-the-space-program-5.html#post2218862

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHJqtgo8RA]YouTube - Tommy Tutone - 867 5309 (Jenny)[/ame]

No special reason.. I just like the tune...

 

[rdean]

"why go to mars anyway?"

The dumbfucks are you two dipshits. We were having a great discussion and the only thing the two of you added was ignorance.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-he-guts-the-space-program-5.html#post2218862

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHJqtgo8RA]YouTube - Tommy Tutone - 867 5309 (Jenny)[/ame]

No special reason.. I just like the tune...

Oh I get it. I thought Jenny was the "last" name. "Foragoodtimecall" is an awfully long first name.

 

[rdean]

What you write truly "sounds" good, on the surface. Then you take a "deeper" look and it's not nearly so cut and dried.

What is the number one variable missing from your equation?

Energy.

No refining. No melting. No nothing without energy. The most obvious way to get massive amounts of energy is to use solar to separate water into O and H. What better energy source than oxygen and hydrogen? Safe and dependable.

Just one quick response before I go do something more useful:

There is abundant energy on the moon which can be used to create more energy and that primary energy source is solar energy.

I realize that most of what we need to do there can not be done solely by means of solar energy, but solar energy can be used in connection and in tandem with other souirces to boost the energy output to levels useful for those more demanding needs. It will be a stepped or staged process. An engineer knows that much more can be accomplished by staging than by a single massive effort.

(I'll get into the rest of your reply a little later)

EDIT: Oxygen is super-abundant on the Moon, add to that hydrogen.......

Oxygen is a very poor energy source. Solar power just isn't "high output".

To build factories on the moon is a very "long term" project. Especially since you would have to import "water". No way to make water "smaller". It's not something you could freeze dry.

But a space station on the other hand.

There are alloys you can make in zero gravity you can't easily make on earth. Think oil and vinegar. In space, they wouldn't separate.

Something as simple as "ball bearings". In space, you can make absolutely perfect ball bearings of any size, because they won't be distorted by gravity. Why would that be important? Perfect ball bearings require only a fraction the energy to start moving. Perfect ball bearings reduce the static friction coefficient.

Those are just two examples. There are hundreds more covering everything from composites to medicine to chemicals.

And the best part, it's only a couple of hundred miles overhead. The distance from Chicago to the space station could be less than the distance from Chicago to London.

The problems with the moon are many. It's not zero gravity, it's very far away, it has no "real" water.

A space station is right over head, you can get to it in less than two hours and it has zero gravity. With a commercial fleet of space shuttles, you can certainly turn the space station into a money making and lucrative venture, not to mention the possibility of "tourism".

The moon program may have spurred the necessity of the computer, but it was computer games and movies that made computers what they are today. It wasn't until computers became a "consumer" item that there was unlimited money to develop it.

The moon is just too far away and dangerous. We can make a "safe" space station.

You know, I would have thought Republicans would be all over this because of the money making potential. But, because of the science, maybe not. They're not very fond of "science".

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

 

[HUGGY]

Just one quick response before I go do something more useful:

There is abundant energy on the moon which can be used to create more energy and that primary energy source is solar energy.

I realize that most of what we need to do there can not be done solely by means of solar energy, but solar energy can be used in connection and in tandem with other souirces to boost the energy output to levels useful for those more demanding needs. It will be a stepped or staged process. An engineer knows that much more can be accomplished by staging than by a single massive effort.

(I'll get into the rest of your reply a little later)

EDIT: Oxygen is super-abundant on the Moon, add to that hydrogen.......

Oxygen is a very poor energy source. Solar power just isn't "high output".

To build factories on the moon is a very "long term" project. Especially since you would have to import "water". No way to make water "smaller". It's not something you could freeze dry.

But a space station on the other hand.

There are alloys you can make in zero gravity you can't easily make on earth. Think oil and vinegar. In space, they wouldn't separate.

Something as simple as "ball bearings". In space, you can make absolutely perfect ball bearings of any size, because they won't be distorted by gravity. Why would that be important? Perfect ball bearings require only a fraction the energy to start moving. Perfect ball bearings reduce the static friction coefficient.

Those are just two examples. There are hundreds more covering everything from composites to medicine to chemicals.

And the best part, it's only a couple of hundred miles overhead. The distance from Chicago to the space station could be less than the distance from Chicago to London.

The problems with the moon are many. It's not zero gravity, it's very far away, it has no "real" water.

A space station is right over head, you can get to it in less than two hours and it has zero gravity. With a commercial fleet of space shuttles, you can certainly turn the space station into a money making and lucrative venture, not to mention the possibility of "tourism".

The moon program may have spurred the necessity of the computer, but it was computer games and movies that made computers what they are today. It wasn't until computers became a "consumer" item that there was unlimited money to develop it.

The moon is just too far away and dangerous. We can make a "safe" space station.

You know, I would have thought Republicans would be all over this because of the money making potential. But, because of the science, maybe not. They're not very fond of "science".

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

On what? OK let's get real scientific-like. How much longer do you think we can sustain consumption of resources at this pace? Peak oil in what 2-5 years? We do not have the magical energy replacement of the future figured out yet. Our "winning" way of life is using up 25 % of the available fossil fuels right now with China and the rest of the hordes catching up in BTUs per person. The sad reality is that the only good reason for energy and financial expenditure on the scale suggested on this thread would be for pure survival reasons...not to satisfy some curiosity.

The world is changing in the proportion of what we might want to do vs what we will have to do with available resources. We are still living in that twilight of denial where we refuse to accept the enevitable. It is obvious we as a species are foolishly wasting our chances of survival on the promise of more stupid plastic crap under the christmas tree every year. The question is not "Are we killing Christmas?"... But is Christmas going to eventually tip the scale of waste to chance and kill us.

Maybe Christmas won't be the final nail in our coffin but it dosn't take alot of imagination to peer into the future a hundred years and see all oil gone...coal and some NG still left but dwindling with twice the worlds population and maybe ....just maybe some cheap energy system coming on line that will offer some hope for the few that can afford it as a flimsy life line into the future.

For the most part the human species will be diseased and starving because no matter what , no "free" energy we know of will be able to replace the nitrogen we need for fertilizer that comes out of fossil fuels.

No sir..the only acceptable reason to waste resources to send our kind further into outer space will be to avert collision with a body out there aimed at us. Let that awfull possibility be your big space dream.

 

[rightwinger]

why go to mars anyway?

One day we are going to either outgrow planet earth (ie, population explosion), or it will become uninhabitable due to nuclear war, a meteor strike, attacking aliens from other planets or some act of God we are unable to foresee at this time.

We will need to send humans from planet Earth somewhere so that we survive. It's called Colonization and the United States wouldn't exist had Colonists not been sent ahead to explore the New World.

Same concept.

Pipe dream....you watch too many movies

This is our planet and we better take care of it

 

[American Horse]

You know, I would have thought Republicans would be all over this because of the money making potential. But, because of the science, maybe not. They're not very fond of "science".

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

Don't jump the gun, I have a lot more to say on the subject.
But just on your last comment, I know lots of Ds and lots of Rs (a mutual relationship I'm not so sure you share) and I find that in the discussion of science I find more Rs interested in the advancement of science than Ds. That may be just because I'm prone to want to discuss science, and the Ds of my acquaintance are prone to take the opposite tack on many scientific issues if they are politically correct ones, like cerrain aspects of stem cell research for instance.

But I do live in a university community, and associate with all manner of people, some who are bone-fide scientists. More of the astronauts have come from our little conservative state of Indiana than any other; Purdue University. Indiana University and Purdue have combined campuses to coordinate science, business, and engineering under one umbrella. We will be a part of commercializing of space efforts as it now stands.
FYI, the general population is of mixed and uncommitted interest in the sciences.

My whole discussion on this topic has leaned on commercializing space, that profit motive has driven all great exploratory missions including the settlement of the Americas.

Challenge/X-prizes (made a major part and then more robust by Pres. Bush) are an important part of bringing entrepreneurism and commercialism into the space industry, by leveraging money and not least of all imagination from the private sector. I support Pres. Obama's allocating more funding in commercializing space. I'm hopeful about that. I can live with his re-prioritizing our efforts to Mars rather than the Moon as a step in that goal. It's a done deal for now. I do hope that X-prize challenges do not preclude the Moon in our challenges just because we have narrowed the scope of our effort. That would be shortsighted indeed.

I'm formulating a response to each of your responses and assertions, not to snipe and criticize but also to inform myself; something I encourage you to do too.

 

[JenyEliza]

why go to mars anyway?

One day we are going to either outgrow planet earth (ie, population explosion), or it will become uninhabitable due to nuclear war, a meteor strike, attacking aliens from other planets or some act of God we are unable to foresee at this time.

We will need to send humans from planet Earth somewhere so that we survive. It's called Colonization and the United States wouldn't exist had Colonists not been sent ahead to explore the New World.

Same concept.

Pipe dream....you watch too many movies

This is our planet and we better take care of it

Yeah they told Columbus that too....in 1492.

 

[HUGGY]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI1keSSwdcI]YouTube - Indigo Girls - Galileo[/ame]

 

[rightwinger]

One day we are going to either outgrow planet earth (ie, population explosion), or it will become uninhabitable due to nuclear war, a meteor strike, attacking aliens from other planets or some act of God we are unable to foresee at this time.

We will need to send humans from planet Earth somewhere so that we survive. It's called Colonization and the United States wouldn't exist had Colonists not been sent ahead to explore the New World.

Same concept.

Pipe dream....you watch too many movies

This is our planet and we better take care of it

Yeah they told Columbus that too....in 1492.

No they didn't. Columbus was looking for a shortcut to the East Indies and China and got lost. He was not looking for a new world

 

[American Horse]

Pipe dream....you watch too many movies

This is our planet and we better take care of it

Yeah they told Columbus that too....in 1492.

No they didn't. Columbus was looking for a shortcut to the East Indies and China and got lost. He was not looking for a new world

The prime mover is conomic advantage; the only thing that comes close is war and the aggressive use of force to expand territory (economic) and self defense (fear) which often transforms itself into empire to push out frontiers which results in economic advantage. Empire has an economic component.

As for fear we have the need for defense against asteroids and other dangerous objects in space. But fear wears thin when the reality of daily lives of the masses turns to apathy and indifference.

 

[rdean]

Oxygen is a very poor energy source. Solar power just isn't "high output".

To build factories on the moon is a very "long term" project. Especially since you would have to import "water". No way to make water "smaller". It's not something you could freeze dry.

But a space station on the other hand.

There are alloys you can make in zero gravity you can't easily make on earth. Think oil and vinegar. In space, they wouldn't separate.

Something as simple as "ball bearings". In space, you can make absolutely perfect ball bearings of any size, because they won't be distorted by gravity. Why would that be important? Perfect ball bearings require only a fraction the energy to start moving. Perfect ball bearings reduce the static friction coefficient.

Those are just two examples. There are hundreds more covering everything from composites to medicine to chemicals.

And the best part, it's only a couple of hundred miles overhead. The distance from Chicago to the space station could be less than the distance from Chicago to London.

The problems with the moon are many. It's not zero gravity, it's very far away, it has no "real" water.

A space station is right over head, you can get to it in less than two hours and it has zero gravity. With a commercial fleet of space shuttles, you can certainly turn the space station into a money making and lucrative venture, not to mention the possibility of "tourism".

The moon program may have spurred the necessity of the computer, but it was computer games and movies that made computers what they are today. It wasn't until computers became a "consumer" item that there was unlimited money to develop it.

The moon is just too far away and dangerous. We can make a "safe" space station.

You know, I would have thought Republicans would be all over this because of the money making potential. But, because of the science, maybe not. They're not very fond of "science".

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

On what? OK let's get real scientific-like. How much longer do you think we can sustain consumption of resources at this pace? Peak oil in what 2-5 years? We do not have the magical energy replacement of the future figured out yet. Our "winning" way of life is using up 25 % of the available fossil fuels right now with China and the rest of the hordes catching up in BTUs per person. The sad reality is that the only good reason for energy and financial expenditure on the scale suggested on this thread would be for pure survival reasons...not to satisfy some curiosity.

The world is changing in the proportion of what we might want to do vs what we will have to do with available resources. We are still living in that twilight of denial where we refuse to accept the enevitable. It is obvious we as a species are foolishly wasting our chances of survival on the promise of more stupid plastic crap under the christmas tree every year. The question is not "Are we killing Christmas?"... But is Christmas going to eventually tip the scale of waste to chance and kill us.

Maybe Christmas won't be the final nail in our coffin but it dosn't take alot of imagination to peer into the future a hundred years and see all oil gone...coal and some NG still left but dwindling with twice the worlds population and maybe ....just maybe some cheap energy system coming on line that will offer some hope for the few that can afford it as a flimsy life line into the future.

For the most part the human species will be diseased and starving because no matter what , no "free" energy we know of will be able to replace the nitrogen we need for fertilizer that comes out of fossil fuels.

No sir..the only acceptable reason to waste resources to send our kind further into outer space will be to avert collision with a body out there aimed at us. Let that awfull possibility be your big space dream.

The truth is that as long as humanity sticks to this world only, we are a doomed species. The life of this planet is finite. In nature, nothing stays the same. It grows or it shrinks and shrink is the wrong direction.

Technology is doubling or tripling every couple of years. Today's supercomputer has the speed and processing power to do in a few hours what it would have taken a so called "supercomputer from 20 years ago" ninety years to do. And it not just "computer" technology. The advancements are across the board.

Which is why it's insane that those gullible cretins on the right insist evolution is not true. This isn't 1980. WE KNOW.

Nuclear powered subs can spend almost unlimited time underwater. Food is what limits the time. With more space, if they could grow their own food, they would never need to resurface.

With that same technology on Mars, with water and a temperate climate and plenty of mineral resources, plus the fact that the world is not dynamic, it's perfect for creating an underground civilization. It may be science fiction now, but it most certainly is doable.

The things standing in our way:

Time

lack of commitment to scientific development

Electing moronic idiots like George Bush and Sarah Palin. Fools that believe a magical Jesus will float down from a mystical heaven and take all the "good" people into "paradise". Cretins one and all. To believe this idiocy. This inanity may be the death of humanity.

 

[HUGGY]

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

On what? OK let's get real scientific-like. How much longer do you think we can sustain consumption of resources at this pace? Peak oil in what 2-5 years? We do not have the magical energy replacement of the future figured out yet. Our "winning" way of life is using up 25 % of the available fossil fuels right now with China and the rest of the hordes catching up in BTUs per person. The sad reality is that the only good reason for energy and financial expenditure on the scale suggested on this thread would be for pure survival reasons...not to satisfy some curiosity.

The world is changing in the proportion of what we might want to do vs what we will have to do with available resources. We are still living in that twilight of denial where we refuse to accept the enevitable. It is obvious we as a species are foolishly wasting our chances of survival on the promise of more stupid plastic crap under the christmas tree every year. The question is not "Are we killing Christmas?"... But is Christmas going to eventually tip the scale of waste to chance and kill us.

Maybe Christmas won't be the final nail in our coffin but it dosn't take alot of imagination to peer into the future a hundred years and see all oil gone...coal and some NG still left but dwindling with twice the worlds population and maybe ....just maybe some cheap energy system coming on line that will offer some hope for the few that can afford it as a flimsy life line into the future.

For the most part the human species will be diseased and starving because no matter what , no "free" energy we know of will be able to replace the nitrogen we need for fertilizer that comes out of fossil fuels.

No sir..the only acceptable reason to waste resources to send our kind further into outer space will be to avert collision with a body out there aimed at us. Let that awfull possibility be your big space dream.

The truth is that as long as humanity sticks to this world only, we are a doomed species. The life of this planet is finite. In nature, nothing stays the same. It grows or it shrinks and shrink is the wrong direction.

Technology is doubling or tripling every couple of years. Today's supercomputer has the speed and processing power to do in a few hours what it would have taken a so called "supercomputer from 20 years ago" ninety years to do. And it not just "computer" technology. The advancements are across the board.

Which is why it's insane that those gullible cretins on the right insist evolution is not true. This isn't 1980. WE KNOW.

Nuclear powered subs can spend almost unlimited time underwater. Food is what limits the time. With more space, if they could grow their own food, they would never need to resurface.

With that same technology on Mars, with water and a temperate climate and plenty of mineral resources, plus the fact that the world is not dynamic, it's perfect for creating an underground civilization. It may be science fiction now, but it most certainly is doable.

The things standing in our way:

Time

lack of commitment to scientific development

Electing moronic idiots like George Bush and Sarah Palin. Fools that believe a magical Jesus will float down from a mystical heaven and take all the "good" people into "paradise". Cretins one and all. To believe this idiocy. This inanity may be the death of humanity.

As long as we as a species believe to a toxic degree that we have been placed here to carry out some fantasy directive fullfiling some mystical plan or achieve anything but survival we are in fact doomed. I am not even sure if we had not lost the momentum of the genius of the dark centuries it could be done. I doubt if even a close call at extinction would shake these numbskulls out of thier coma. It is ironic that when I advocate a war on religion it is founded on survival of the human race. These believers in the poisenous myth have no regard for a future that extends farther than thier stupid unfufillable entry into heaven. I hate them not for thier faith...I hate them for what they do not and never will understand.

 

[rightwinger]

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

On what? OK let's get real scientific-like. How much longer do you think we can sustain consumption of resources at this pace? Peak oil in what 2-5 years? We do not have the magical energy replacement of the future figured out yet. Our "winning" way of life is using up 25 % of the available fossil fuels right now with China and the rest of the hordes catching up in BTUs per person. The sad reality is that the only good reason for energy and financial expenditure on the scale suggested on this thread would be for pure survival reasons...not to satisfy some curiosity.

The world is changing in the proportion of what we might want to do vs what we will have to do with available resources. We are still living in that twilight of denial where we refuse to accept the enevitable. It is obvious we as a species are foolishly wasting our chances of survival on the promise of more stupid plastic crap under the christmas tree every year. The question is not "Are we killing Christmas?"... But is Christmas going to eventually tip the scale of waste to chance and kill us.

Maybe Christmas won't be the final nail in our coffin but it dosn't take alot of imagination to peer into the future a hundred years and see all oil gone...coal and some NG still left but dwindling with twice the worlds population and maybe ....just maybe some cheap energy system coming on line that will offer some hope for the few that can afford it as a flimsy life line into the future.

For the most part the human species will be diseased and starving because no matter what , no "free" energy we know of will be able to replace the nitrogen we need for fertilizer that comes out of fossil fuels.

No sir..the only acceptable reason to waste resources to send our kind further into outer space will be to avert collision with a body out there aimed at us. Let that awfull possibility be your big space dream.

The truth is that as long as humanity sticks to this world only, we are a doomed species. The life of this planet is finite. In nature, nothing stays the same. It grows or it shrinks and shrink is the wrong direction.

Technology is doubling or tripling every couple of years. Today's supercomputer has the speed and processing power to do in a few hours what it would have taken a so called "supercomputer from 20 years ago" ninety years to do. And it not just "computer" technology. The advancements are across the board.

Which is why it's insane that those gullible cretins on the right insist evolution is not true. This isn't 1980. WE KNOW.

Nuclear powered subs can spend almost unlimited time underwater. Food is what limits the time. With more space, if they could grow their own food, they would never need to resurface.

With that same technology on Mars, with water and a temperate climate and plenty of mineral resources, plus the fact that the world is not dynamic, it's perfect for creating an underground civilization. It may be science fiction now, but it most certainly is doable.

The things standing in our way:

Time

lack of commitment to scientific development

Electing moronic idiots like George Bush and Sarah Palin. Fools that believe a magical Jesus will float down from a mystical heaven and take all the "good" people into "paradise". Cretins one and all. To believe this idiocy. This inanity may be the death of humanity.

We need to look around and see the beauty that is Earth and compare it to the dark, desolate, hostile environment that is Mars. There is no future for mankind on Mars, we need to take care of the planet we have

 

[HUGGY]

On what? OK let's get real scientific-like. How much longer do you think we can sustain consumption of resources at this pace? Peak oil in what 2-5 years? We do not have the magical energy replacement of the future figured out yet. Our "winning" way of life is using up 25 % of the available fossil fuels right now with China and the rest of the hordes catching up in BTUs per person. The sad reality is that the only good reason for energy and financial expenditure on the scale suggested on this thread would be for pure survival reasons...not to satisfy some curiosity.

The world is changing in the proportion of what we might want to do vs what we will have to do with available resources. We are still living in that twilight of denial where we refuse to accept the enevitable. It is obvious we as a species are foolishly wasting our chances of survival on the promise of more stupid plastic crap under the christmas tree every year. The question is not "Are we killing Christmas?"... But is Christmas going to eventually tip the scale of waste to chance and kill us.

Maybe Christmas won't be the final nail in our coffin but it dosn't take alot of imagination to peer into the future a hundred years and see all oil gone...coal and some NG still left but dwindling with twice the worlds population and maybe ....just maybe some cheap energy system coming on line that will offer some hope for the few that can afford it as a flimsy life line into the future.

For the most part the human species will be diseased and starving because no matter what , no "free" energy we know of will be able to replace the nitrogen we need for fertilizer that comes out of fossil fuels.

No sir..the only acceptable reason to waste resources to send our kind further into outer space will be to avert collision with a body out there aimed at us. Let that awfull possibility be your big space dream.

The truth is that as long as humanity sticks to this world only, we are a doomed species. The life of this planet is finite. In nature, nothing stays the same. It grows or it shrinks and shrink is the wrong direction.

Technology is doubling or tripling every couple of years. Today's supercomputer has the speed and processing power to do in a few hours what it would have taken a so called "supercomputer from 20 years ago" ninety years to do. And it not just "computer" technology. The advancements are across the board.

Which is why it's insane that those gullible cretins on the right insist evolution is not true. This isn't 1980. WE KNOW.

Nuclear powered subs can spend almost unlimited time underwater. Food is what limits the time. With more space, if they could grow their own food, they would never need to resurface.

With that same technology on Mars, with water and a temperate climate and plenty of mineral resources, plus the fact that the world is not dynamic, it's perfect for creating an underground civilization. It may be science fiction now, but it most certainly is doable.

The things standing in our way:

Time

lack of commitment to scientific development

Electing moronic idiots like George Bush and Sarah Palin. Fools that believe a magical Jesus will float down from a mystical heaven and take all the "good" people into "paradise". Cretins one and all. To believe this idiocy. This inanity may be the death of humanity.

We need to look around and see the beauty that is Earth and compare it to the dark, desolate, hostile environment that is Mars. There is no future for mankind on Mars, we need to take care of the planet we have

Ya well with 80% of americans and who knows how many other human beings believing in God...good luck. We are intellectually and emotionally unqualified for the sterwardship of earth.

 

[American Horse]

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

<SNIP>
Which is why it's insane that those gullible cretins on the right insist evolution is not true. This isn't 1980. WE KNOW.
<SNIP>
Electing moronic idiots like George Bush and Sarah Palin. Fools that believe a magical Jesus will float down from a mystical heaven and take all the "good" people into "paradise". Cretins one and all. To believe this idiocy. This inanity may be the death of humanity.
<SNIP>

If you are truly interested in intellectual discussion why do you throw out diatribes and unworthy canards like these? You come off more like an ideological provocateur than an intellectual seeking an equal to engage in discussion.

Here's a quote from President Bush in January 2004 as he intro'd his new direction in 35 years, a different mode than "drilling space" in L.E.O.:

"Mankind is drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once drawn to unknown lands and across the open sea," he said at NASA headquarters. "We choose to explore space because doing so improves our lives and lifts our national spirit. So let us continue the journey."

With and following this speech he created the first X-challenges for space, the Constellation program of which commercial launches were a core part, created the COTS program (a little later in2006 - Commercial Orbital Transportation Services), and CRS (Commercial Resupply Services)

 

[HUGGY]

Too bad, I was looking for a little more discussion on this.

<SNIP>
Which is why it's insane that those gullible cretins on the right insist evolution is not true. This isn't 1980. WE KNOW.
<SNIP>
Electing moronic idiots like George Bush and Sarah Palin. Fools that believe a magical Jesus will float down from a mystical heaven and take all the "good" people into "paradise". Cretins one and all. To believe this idiocy. This inanity may be the death of humanity.
<SNIP>

If you are truly interested in intellectual discussion why do you throw out diatribes and unworthy canards like these? You come off more like an ideological provocateur than an intellectual seeking an equal to engage in discussion.

Here's a quote from President Bush in January 2004 as he intro'd his new direction in 35 years, a different mode than "drilling space" in L.E.O.:

"Mankind is drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once drawn to unknown lands and across the open sea," he said at NASA headquarters. "We choose to explore space because doing so improves our lives and lifts our national spirit. So let us continue the journey."

With and following this speech he created the first X-challenges for space, the Constellation program of which commercial launches were a core part, created the COTS program (a little later in2006 - Commercial Orbital Transportation Services), and CRS (Commercial Resupply Services)

The time for tap deancing with you willfully ignorant fucks is over.

You and your fantasy are a clear and present danger to the survival of our species. There is nothing reasonable about accomodating you any longer.

Half way meeting points are a waste of time. We are getting short of that precious commodity. Either you idiots put your stupid religion in a place where it does not interfere with our chances of survival or do it not at your own peril. We will no longer allow you and your kind to drag us down into oblivian.

 

[American Horse]

The time for tap deancing with you willfully ignorant fucks is over.

You and your fantasy are a clear and present danger to the survival of our species. There is nothing reasonable about accomodating you any longer.

Half way meeting points are a waste of time. We are getting short of that precious commodity. Either you idiots put your stupid religion in a place where it does not interfere with our chances of survival or do it not at your own peril. We will no longer allow you and your kind to drag us down into oblivian.

What are you doing to promote the goals you subscribe to? I have been a continuous dues paying member (and have made other cash donations) to the Planetary Society since 1982.
That may not be much, but I do put my money where my mouth is.

The Planetary Society is the foremost advocate for human presence in space, and particulary on Mars with influence in Washington, and a major advocate for monitoring and tracking NEO's (Near Earth Objects)

It is a serious organization. The members come from more than 125 countries and are astronauts, scientists, entrepreneurs, educators, parents, and grandparents, corporate and foundation leaders, engineers, planetarium, museum, and science directors, policy makers, and space enthusiasts.

BTW in another post you said that:
"I work in metal forging and manufacturing and it is clear that you do not"
I worked in manufacturing for 8 years, first as an industrial worker, and 5 years as an industrial engineer with duties in bonderize/galvanize hot dip and electroplating processes, and heavy assembly, writing standard methods for those operations. It was a Westinghouse Electric "job shop" and we made everything from capacitors to elevating structures for shipment by rail.

 

[HUGGY]

The time for tap deancing with you willfully ignorant fucks is over.

You and your fantasy are a clear and present danger to the survival of our species. There is nothing reasonable about accomodating you any longer.

Half way meeting points are a waste of time. We are getting short of that precious commodity. Either you idiots put your stupid religion in a place where it does not interfere with our chances of survival or do it not at your own peril. We will no longer allow you and your kind to drag us down into oblivian.

What are you doing to promote the goals you subscribe to? I have been a continuous dues paying member (and have made other cash donations) to the Planetary Society since 1982.
That may not be much, but I do put my money where my mouth is.

The Planetary Society is the foremost advocate for human presence in space, and particulary on Mars with influence in Washington, and a major advocate for monitoring and tracking NEO's (Near Earth Objects)

It is a serious organization. The members come from more than 125 countries and are astronauts, scientists, entrepreneurs, educators, parents, and grandparents, corporate and foundation leaders, engineers, planetarium, museum, and science directors, policy makers, and space enthusiasts.

BTW in another post you said that:
"I work in metal forging and manufacturing and it is clear that you do not"
I worked in manufacturing for 8 years, first as an industrial worker, and 5 years as an industrial engineer with duties in bonderize/galvanize hot dip and electroplating processes, and heavy assembly, writing standard methods for those operations. It was a Westinghouse Electric "job shop" and we made everything from capacitors to elevating structures for shipment by rail.

I stand corrected on my assumption.

My experience in manufacturing goes back 25 years to present. Most of what I have manufactured was in the aerospace industry. I try to stay current on science with a major interest in astronomy and several studies in the area we are discussing.

My interest in this thread is the big picture and is not disclaiming our ability to do what you suggest. My quarrel is whether we have the resources or the time.

The "killer astroid" I warn of should be our highest priority at this time along with dealing with the impending famine. After those problems are solved and we are secure from annialation our future generations will have the luxury to explore the space we are capable of reaching.

 

[JenyEliza]

My interest in this thread is the big picture and is not disclaiming our ability to do what you suggest. My quarrel is whether we have the resources or the time.

The "killer astroid" I warn of should be our highest priority at this time along with dealing with the impending famine. After those problems are solved and we are secure from annialation our future generations will have the luxury to explore the space we are capable of reaching.

I think Huggy makes a salient point. Much moreso that I did earlier in this thread.

Being of Irish people descended from potato famine victims, I can tell you having a place to escape to from famine is what ensured our family didn't end up extinct. We came to America when the rest of the folks back in Ireland were starving. Our family nearly starved out before we got here.

Do you all realize the volcano in Iceland could have mammoth effects on the ENTIRE GLOBE, not just Europe? It's not even spewing 1/4 the ash and lava it could be spewing right now. When it REALLY blows its lid, we're in big fucking trouble, and it's not a question of IF, but WHEN this happens. Because it WILL happen at some point in time. Just don't know if it will be in our lifetime, our children's lifetimes, their children's lifetimes, etc.

So....it's not just space invaders, naturally occuring famine, volcano induced climate change casuing famine, or meteors wiping us out that we have to worry about. We have multitude of reasons to get our tails in high-gear and get ourselves positioned as a planet to have an escape plan and be ready to excecute.

Don't ya'll get this?

 

[American Horse]

My interest in this thread is the big picture and is not disclaiming our ability to do what you suggest. My quarrel is whether we have the resources or the time.

The "killer astroid" I warn of should be our highest priority at this time along with dealing with the impending famine. After those problems are solved and we are secure from annialation our future generations will have the luxury to explore the space we are capable of reaching.

I think Huggy makes a salient point. Much moreso that I did earlier in this thread.

Being of Irish people descended from potato famine victims, I can tell you having a place to escape to from famine is what ensured our family didn't end up extinct. We came to America when the rest of the folks back in Ireland were starving. Our family nearly starved out before we got here.

Do you all realize the volcano in Iceland could have mammoth effects on the ENTIRE GLOBE, not just Europe? It's not even spewing 1/4 the ash and lava it could be spewing right now. When it REALLY blows its lid, we're in big fucking trouble, and it's not a question of IF, but WHEN this happens. Because it WILL happen at some point in time. Just don't know if it will be in our lifetime, our children's lifetimes, their children's lifetimes, etc.

So....it's not just space invaders, naturally occuring famine, volcano induced climate change casuing famine, or meteors wiping us out that we have to worry about. We have multitude of reasons to get our tails in high-gear and get ourselves positioned as a planet to have an escape plan and be ready to excecute.

Don't ya'll get this?

Thanks Jeny, I've preached this to anyone who would listen, and been thought a "nut" for 30 years. Our local Solar neighborhood is by no means a safe place to inhabit.
1910 and Tunguska was just a small eye opener to the possibilities.
(IMO The Tunguska object was a small comet or comet fragment because it exploded some 1500-2000 feet above the Earth's surface. Being an Icy/dirty snowball like object it would've been pulled apart/desintegrated and the components exploded from the frictional heat from the atmosphere)

In 1178 English Monks saw a "lunar explosion"

1178: Just after sunset, according to the English monk and chronicler Gervase of Canterbury, five monks watch the moon explode into flames.

Gervase said the observers were looking at a new crescent moon when the upper part "suddenly split in two. From the midpoint of this division a flaming torch sprang up, spewing out &#8230; fire, hot coals and sparks&#8230;. The body of the moon, which was below, writhed &#8230; throbbed like a wounded snake."

Today, meteor scholars have identified this event with the 125,000-megaton explosion that carved the crater known as Giordano Bruno at roughly 36° N, 102° E on the Moon's northeastern limb
Astronomy.com - Crater crazy

The moon is not nearly the target nor the "space vacuum cleaner" the Earth hapens to be.

Here's a "fly-over" the crater on U-Tube

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvu_b9fupSM]YouTube - KAGUYA taking "Giordano Bruno" by HDTV [HD][/ame]
The "voice over" narrator says "dark side of the moon;" he should've said the (near) "far side of the moon"