Marriage, non-marriage and ultimatums

It irks me when I start off a relationship with a woman and I make it clear from the jump that marriage is not in the cards, than years later the subject comes up. Pisses me off.

And I have no problem with couples having a relationship that is not intended to end in marriage so long as they don't have kids together. (I'm quite old fashioned when it comes to kids.) Those who already have kids who choose to remarry, when adoption is not an option, should have a good prenuptial agreement to protect those kids or other members of the family that must be considered. They might trust each other implicitly, but they can't always trust other opportunistic relatives to care about those kids or their inlaw's family.

My husband and I had our first date in July, we were engaged by September, and married by February. Because we were working together through most of our engagement and spent almost all of our spare time together the whole time, a seven month relationship was sufficient to know each other and work out most of the details. But we both wanted a soul mate and life partner so we went into the relationship with a common goal to achieve that and neither of us got cold feet or backed off the goal. (That was decades ago and we are still going strong.)

Often one senses or recognizes red flags that should not be ignored in the relationship or just realizes he or she is not yet ready for a lifetime commitment and either one of those situations is sufficient to end the relationship or at least cancel or postpone marriage plans. The serious stuff should be settled well before the marriage is finalized.

And HG, there comes a time when those who think they don't want marriage, a traditional family, etc. etc. change their minds about that. Or they fall in love and their priorities change. If it happens with both people in the relationship that is a wonderful thing. If not, one is annoyed and the other has his or her heart broken. It's the risk we take.
 

If she is already living with him like this what does she think will change if they get married? does she think he will change, be a better partner?

You know sparring - even hard sparring - isn't the same as a real match.



(how long can I torture this metaphor before the UN Commission on Human Rights gets after me? :eek: )

LOL, I'll get you out of it by going back to the other thought.

I know soooooo many people who overlooked those red flags and other warning signs thinking that once they had a person safely married to him or her, the 'flawed' one would change for the better. Almost never happens. And those flaws will only be of much more importance and an irritant or become intolerable after marriage even though we were able to shrug them off during the courtship.
 
That's youth. Older women know that he speaks the truth.

Older women were the best thing for me after my divorce, they were not looking to get married, have kids or any of that, they had all been there, done it and now just wanted to have fun. I had a couple divorcees in their 40s I would get together with regularly when I was 24 and they didn't put any expectations or pressure on me, we just had fun and it was great.

Cougars

Yes sir. :thup:
 

If she is already living with him like this what does she think will change if they get married? does she think he will change, be a better partner?

As far as I can tell? She wants the security. That's why I said up-thread - that's no kind of security.

I used to tell my daughter when she was little and thought I could give her a dad "Honey, me getting married doesn't guarantee you a dad any more than it guarantees me a husband." I explained a bit about how the only thing worse than being single and lonely was being married - and lonely.

That's a big part of why I don't understand why people can't just be grateful for what they have.

I have also been wondering lately if relationships are truly meant to last forever. I don't believe that getting married automatically means that provided nobody dies, you'll be celebrating your 50th. I think people grow, and change, and it sucks but it beats being with someone that you have nothing in common with anymore.

Security? I thought you were supposed to marry someone because you love them, not because of the security they can bring to the table. To be honest I don't think human beings were meant to be managamous but it is what we are programmed to do when we are brought up by society.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKjEHfHINQ]Simon and Garfunkel The Boxer (Original) - YouTube[/ame]
 
If she is already living with him like this what does she think will change if they get married? does she think he will change, be a better partner?

As far as I can tell? She wants the security. That's why I said up-thread - that's no kind of security.

I used to tell my daughter when she was little and thought I could give her a dad "Honey, me getting married doesn't guarantee you a dad any more than it guarantees me a husband." I explained a bit about how the only thing worse than being single and lonely was being married - and lonely.

That's a big part of why I don't understand why people can't just be grateful for what they have.

I have also been wondering lately if relationships are truly meant to last forever. I don't believe that getting married automatically means that provided nobody dies, you'll be celebrating your 50th. I think people grow, and change, and it sucks but it beats being with someone that you have nothing in common with anymore.

Security? I thought you were supposed to marry someone because you love them, not because of the security they can bring to the table. To be honest I don't think human beings were meant to be managamous but it is what we are programmed to do when we are brought up by society.

Yes, some are intended to be monogamous and are. And some are not. Those who are not should not marry and that is okay too. We are all different.

But security is absolutely a part of it. Knowing that you have somebody who has your back, knowing that if you are sick or laid up with an injury or whatever, there will be somebody who will see that things get done, the bills are paid, and there are groceries in the fridge. Somebody who will share the load of responsibility for the children and the household so that you don't feel like it is all on your shoulders. And whether you choose to earn the income together and share the household responsibilities together or whether you choose to divide up those responsibilities, knowing that your financial situation and future is secure or working together to accomplish that is an important component in the relationship.
 
As far as I can tell? She wants the security. That's why I said up-thread - that's no kind of security.

I used to tell my daughter when she was little and thought I could give her a dad "Honey, me getting married doesn't guarantee you a dad any more than it guarantees me a husband." I explained a bit about how the only thing worse than being single and lonely was being married - and lonely.

That's a big part of why I don't understand why people can't just be grateful for what they have.

I have also been wondering lately if relationships are truly meant to last forever. I don't believe that getting married automatically means that provided nobody dies, you'll be celebrating your 50th. I think people grow, and change, and it sucks but it beats being with someone that you have nothing in common with anymore.

Security? I thought you were supposed to marry someone because you love them, not because of the security they can bring to the table. To be honest I don't think human beings were meant to be managamous but it is what we are programmed to do when we are brought up by society.

Yes, some are intended to be monogamous and are. And some are not. Those who are not should not marry and that is okay too. We are all different.

But security is absolutely a part of it. Knowing that you have somebody who has your back, knowing that if you are sick or laid up with an injury or whatever, there will be somebody who will see that things get done, the bills are paid, and there are groceries in the fridge. Somebody who will share the load of responsibility for the children and the household so that you don't feel like it is all on your shoulders. And whether you choose to earn the income together and share the household responsibilities together or whether you choose to divide up those responsibilities, knowing that your financial situation and future is secure or working together to accomplish that is an important component in the relationship.

Someone can still do all that for you without being married though.
 
Security? I thought you were supposed to marry someone because you love them, not because of the security they can bring to the table. To be honest I don't think human beings were meant to be managamous but it is what we are programmed to do when we are brought up by society.

Yes, some are intended to be monogamous and are. And some are not. Those who are not should not marry and that is okay too. We are all different.

But security is absolutely a part of it. Knowing that you have somebody who has your back, knowing that if you are sick or laid up with an injury or whatever, there will be somebody who will see that things get done, the bills are paid, and there are groceries in the fridge. Somebody who will share the load of responsibility for the children and the household so that you don't feel like it is all on your shoulders. And whether you choose to earn the income together and share the household responsibilities together or whether you choose to divide up those responsibilities, knowing that your financial situation and future is secure or working together to accomplish that is an important component in the relationship.

Someone can still do all that for you without being married though.

Someone can, yes. But the security in a permanent, committed relationship is still a critical component of every good marriage. In a good marriage, there is never any doubt. In a more loose relationship, there usually is.

Love is very important in marriage, but trusting each other, depending on each other when that is necessary--I don't mean the clinging vine needy stuff--respecting each other, admiring each other, liking each other, enjoying the company of each other, and compatibility in all important things keeps the love alive. Without all that, love too easily turns into irritation, boredom, resentment, and eventually becomes an intolerable situation.
 

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