marriage Constitutional amendment

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
At worst, it is, as I have said before, a smokescreen to deflect voter attention away from issues of real importance.

To some people the eroding of the moral character in this country is the most important issue. It is responsible for many of the most dire conflicts in our nation: poverty, robbery, rape, homelessness, aids, abandoned children, school violence, public school failings, etc. It is their hope that by repairing the foundation, the house will be solidified.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
A family is defined as:

<i>"...All members of a social group who are living under the same roof. This definition includes couples, traditional families, lesbian and gay families, communal families, families with cohabiting parents, and extended families..." - <b>Mental Health Nursing: Fourth Edition</b>; Karen Lee Fontaine, RN, MSN, AASECT; J. Sue Fletcher, RN, ED; Addison-Wesley, 1995</i>

I'm sure this particular organization may define 'family' to include gays/lesbian partnerships because they live under the same roof. I do not. Would you consider college roommates 'family?' How about a fraternity? They are in the same social group, and live under the same roof.

By denying gays and lesbians access to the institution of marriage, they are thus deneid the stability and legal protections enjoyed by those of us, myself included, who enjoy the benefits and joys of marriage.

Exactly. Homosexual couples, in my opinion, do not deserve any more legal protections or stability than anyone else, as they are not family (see above).

To state that denying gays and lesbians the right to marry is in some way "protecting" the family is laughable at best. At worst, it is, as I have said before, a smokescreen to deflect voter attention away from issues of real importance.

You didn't address who I think is responsible for the "smokescreen." And again, I cannot agree that a homosexual couple constitutes a family.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
To some people the eroding of the moral character in this country is the most important issue. It is responsible for many of the most dire conflicts in our nation: poverty, robbery, rape, homelessness, aids, abandoned children, school violence, public school failings, etc. It is their hope that by repairing the foundation, the house will be solidified.

But what is the cause of that erosion of moral character?

You cannot legislate morality or enforce it at the point of a gun. Morality is a personal choice, and that is what it all boils down to...Our freedom to make choices.

Life is about choices and the consequences of those choices, but we are not providing our children with the knowledge they need to make intelligent and responsible choices. We are a culture of instant gratification, too many of us are unable to comprehend the consequences of our choices beyond those of immediate self-gratification. Too many of us fail to look beyond that moment.

This is the root of the moral erosion you speak of. It is the failure to stop and ask, " Will what I am about to do bring harm to myself?...To another?...To both? If so, its yield is suffering, its fruit is anguish." It is not whether or not two people of the same gender are engaged in a loving and deep relationship. It is not whether two people of the same, of different gender choose to cohabitate. It is the failure to recognise the consequences of our actions.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I'm sure this particular organization may define 'family' to include gays/lesbian partnerships because they live under the same roof. I do not. Would you consider college roommates 'family?' How about a fraternity? They are in the same social group, and live under the same roof.

Families can be, and often are, matters of choice.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
But what is the cause of that erosion of moral character?

The cause of the erosion is the lack of responsibility that is expected of people in this country. Less is expected of people in terms of working for their own existence, consequences have become so frivolous you can't even use the word consequence and there is an entitlement mentality in this country that's beyond absurd.

Originally posted by Bullypulpit

You cannot legislate morality or enforce it at the point of a gun. Morality is a personal choice, and that is what it all boils down to...Our freedom to make choices.

The fact of the matter is that all laws are about morality and the picking and choosing of whose morals rule.

 

[Bern80]

I hate to reiterate this again, but it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about the marriage rights of gays and lesbians.

Marriage is defined as being b/t a man and women according to good ol' webster. It does mention marriage between members of the same sex, but modifies the term to same-sex marriage. Forget rewritting the the constitution, you'd need to start w/ the dictionary.

Not to mention the christian definition, which recognizes marriage of two people for the purpose of producing offspring.

Again, i have nothing against same-sex marriages/unions or the rights that go with it. it just can't be called marriage

 

[acludem]

Gay and lesbian couples should be able to enter into a legally binding contract of union. If you want to call it Civil Union than so be it. If you want to define "marriage" as between one man and one woman and "civil union" as between two individuals of the same sex, then so be it. Gays and lesbians who wish to have legal recognition of their unions are not asking for "special rights" they are asking for equal rights. They are asking to be afforded the same rights and responsibilities that heterosexual couples have. Some of these are life and death problems, such as health decisions (I have a close friend who went through this, but his partner gave him durable power of attorney to keep his entranged kids from interfering, but that is not always possible.)

The last time we attempted to Constitutionalize a personal moral issue was the Prohibition of alcohol and that was a disaster. President Bush and the homophobic religious right are reacting to decisions made in state courts whereby the Supreme Courts of some states have interpreted state law to mean that marriage is not defined as male-female only. Clearly, the so-called Defense of Marriage Act defines this on a federal level, therefore negating the need for an amendment unless it is challanged in court.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
The fact of the matter is that all laws are about morality and the picking and choosing of whose morals rule.

But what if the premises are wrong?

 

[Johnney]

that is bullshit!

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Johnney
that is bullshit!

You should know...

 

[Johnney]

that a "civil union" is a bad thing? so your telling me that they should get the rights of a married couple and my fiance' and myself cant get shit?
yeah that i know

 

[jimnyc]

I say give them MORE rights than us. Give them the right to own their own gigantic island. Give them the right to live there forever. Give them free airfare and boat fare to get there. Then give them the right to never return.

 

[Jeff]

Very good Jim... ooo & lets give them one more thing ... A bomb for there island ( in the form of a nuke)
Jeff

 

[Bullypulpit]

...We got yer racists AND homophobes here. One group is usually inclusive of the other.

You just don't get it...do ya?

It's not about special rights for anyone, its about equal protection under the law. I challenge you, any of you, to show why gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be able to marry without once falling back on arguments of religion, tradition and/or propagation of the species.

There is NO rational reason for such discrimination.

 

[jimnyc]

Because it's disgusting and most Americans don't want any part of it. Majority usually rules, and I hope it does in this case. As far as I'm concerned they have the right to stay in the closet where they belong.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
...We got yer racists AND homophobes here. One group is usually inclusive of the other.

You just don't get it...do ya?

It's not about special rights for anyone, its about equal protection under the law. I challenge you, any of you, to show why gay and lesbian couples shouldn't be able to marry without once falling back on arguments of religion, tradition and/or propagation of the species.

There is NO rational reason for such discrimination.

There actually doesn't need to be a reason satisfactory to you. The fact of the matter is that marriage is not a right. Negation of marriage does not relinquish rights. Therefore, no constitutional challenge should ever be made of rules surrounding marriage. The treatment in this country of every whim being a right guaranteed by the constitution is one of the reasons that this country is going to go to hell in a hand basket.

Why do gays and lesbians actually care if they are "married"? If they aren't the ones who care about the religious nature of the marriage nor the tradition behind it, I don't see why they don't just shut up and live together.

 

[Jeff]

I agree with Jim majority should rule......but to be honest bully boy I feel the way I do & that is all I need to know....if you want to have homo weddings & let them live as a family thats fine it is your choice ...but do me a favor keep it on your land cause I sure dont want it....
what about Aids bully boy... ya dont think maybe this is a sign saying it is wrong to be a homo?... I know other life styles also are at high risk...such as dopers ( by the way dopers ought to be on the island also) & yes I know innocent ppl get aids also...but it is spread by these scumbags....
So open your eyes & see the truth!!!
Jeff

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Because it's disgusting...

Homophobia arises from a basic insecurity in ones own sexuality just as racism arises from a basic insecurity in one's own self-worth.

What are feeling insecure about today?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Jeff & Laura
...what about Aids bully boy... ya dont think maybe this is a sign saying it is wrong to be a homo?... I know other life styles also are at high risk...such as dopers ( by the way dopers ought to be on the island also) & yes I know innocent ppl get aids also...but it is spread by these scumbags....
So open your eyes & see the truth!!!
Jeff

AIDS is the result of a promiscuous sexual life, and straights as well as gays are at risk. It isn't, and never was a "gay" disease. Unless you listen to that woolly brained old fart, Pat Robertson, or his pinhead pal Jerry Falwell...THen it's a punishment from God. Which begs the question of, "Which one?"

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Homophobia arises from a basic insecurity in ones own sexuality just as racism arises from a basic insecurity in one's own self-worth.

What are feeling insecure about today?

My sexuality is QUITE fine!

My self worth couldn't be at a higher level.

Gay marriages still aren't allowed.

They can keep their filth in their closets.

Deal with it.