Marijuana: It’s Time for a Conversation

DiamondDave, being a conservative, how do you reconcile that with believing that the government should regulate what you put in your own body?
 
DiamondDave, being a conservative, how do you reconcile that with believing that the government should regulate what you put in your own body?

We regulate that you cannot put other drugs into your system as well... we regulate that it is a crime to stick your dick up a chicken's ass... we have it that you cannot have your personal jollies with a dead body (which also only effects you as the only other live person)... we have it as a crime to actually try and kill yourself.. we have it as a crime even, punishable to smoke in a public place around others, with a product that does not have the level of mind altering effects that pot does...

A main difference between something like pot, which many of you seem to deem harmless, and alcohol is that when you take a drink of scotch, nobody sitting next to you is going to get any sort of direct effect from that... not to mention no positive benefits from marijuana, except (as stated) the rare benefit to the rare case in some medicinal uses which is taken care of with marinol...

Even as a conservative there are reasons to restrict.... for societal benefit, preservation of rights of others besides you, etc... which is a main concept of our style of government... you have personal freedoms but cannot infringe on the freedoms of others, cause the harm of others, cause the harm of society, etc just to exercise your freedom... upholding freedom does not mean an approach of anarchy where anyone can do whatever the hell they want, 'others and society be dammed'... don't confuse conservatism with anarchy or unbridled libertarianism
 
I don't think the argument against regulating what we put in our own bodies is "unbridled libertarianism". That person sitting next to you can simply get up and walk away from your second hand smoke. With your logic why aren't cigs illegal?
 
Pot ... why it's illegal is beyond me, no worse than drunks. Pot is stupid, but just for the same reasons alcohol is, because people behave stupidly while on it. Smoking it in public ... fine, ban that but privately ... hell, as long as they don't drive afterward I don't really give a rats ass what they do to their own braincells.

However, I fear drunks more, people who drink alcohol are too active and I see them driving all the time, while potheads I have known are usually stuck in front of the TV watching some spanish show and not knowing spanish but still laughing at all the jokes.
 
there is no benefit at all to legalizing this illegal drug

How about the practical benefits?

We spend billions fighting weed and drugs with very little success, we also spend umpteenth dollars clogging our prisons with weed smokers, we also have a hard time taxing the revenue the weed sellers get.

Legalize weed and the government doesn't have to spend so much money.

There's also the issue of sin taxes and government being able to impose safety standards.

I really wanna know Diamond, are you in favor of banning cigarettes or not?

They to have second hand smoke.

How about alcohol?

That's also a drug that will impair judgment.
 
1) I am not for legalizing something just for potential tax revenue

Neither are us but it's one of the many excellent reasons.

2) Kids and people need limits in society... there is right and wrong... just as a 'kid' should be punished for DUI, or drunk in public,
All have good reasons for being illegal.

or for huffing glue, or making crystal meth from sudafed, or taking heroin, or whatever... so they should be punished for the use of pot and anything related to it's use and distribution, as it is illegal

WHY SHOULD ADULTS BE PUNISHED FOR DOING THAT? Meth and heroin don't have second hand smoke. Are you really going to argue that just because it's illegal it's immoral?

3) If they do try and criminalize tobacco, shitstorm or not, I would not fight it or scream bloody murder.. do I think it will happen in my lifetime? No... but because it is legal, does not mean that we change the legality of something that has zero positive benefits

Sorry but freedom means you have to allow people to fail, you shouldn't take away the freedoms of everyone just because a few people will get hit by trains or smoke themselves to death.

4) No benefit, other than some very rare uses for medicinal purposes (which are handled by the drug marinol, which is legally prescribed) have been shown whatsoever... not one.. zilch.. nada.. again, I do not support decriminalizing for the sake of a high

Once again you fail to show any sources that weed has no benefit, but shouldn't people be allowed to do something that harms them? Why the hell should the government take away liberties for safety's sake?
 
The money we are spending on fighting them as taxpayers is the only reason I say we legalize it. I am tired of seeing that money go to waste with no effect on it (since the number of potheads keeps increasing). Seriously, if they want to kill braincells let them. Junkies of harder drugs ... screw em, let them OD if they are that stupid to. It's less costly to us.
 
We regulate that you cannot put other drugs into your system as well... we regulate that it is a crime to stick your dick up a chicken's ass... we have it that you cannot have your personal jollies with a dead body (which also only effects you as the only other live person)... we have it as a crime to actually try and kill yourself.. we have it as a crime even, punishable to smoke in a public place around others, with a product that does not have the level of mind altering effects that pot does...

You're under the mistaken impression that all of our laws have good reasons for their existence. You're also arguing a red herring really.

A main difference between something like pot, which many of you seem to deem harmless, and alcohol is that when you take a drink of scotch, nobody sitting next to you is going to get any sort of direct effect from that... not to mention no positive benefits from marijuana, except (as stated) the rare benefit to the rare case in some medicinal uses which is taken care of with marinol...

People have stopped using alcohol for medical use for a long time. I said before that it's possible to smoke weed and not harm others or do you prefer not listening to counter arguments?


Even as a conservative there are reasons to restrict.... for societal benefit, preservation of rights of others besides you, etc... which is a main concept of our style of government... you have personal freedoms but cannot infringe on the freedoms of others, cause the harm of others, cause the harm of society, etc just to exercise your freedom... upholding freedom does not mean an approach of anarchy where anyone can do whatever the hell they want, 'others and society be dammed'... don't confuse conservatism with anarchy or unbridled libertarianism

But it's possible to smoke weed and do drugs WITHOUT harming others, which should be legal. Tell me what rights am I infringing on by smoking weed alone?
 
If an adult wants to take any drug for whatever reason, I don't have a problem with it. If they put anyone in danger, like driving a vehicle while under the influence, the punishment should be so severe that they don't dare do it.
 
If an adult wants to take any drug for whatever reason, I don't have a problem with it. If they put anyone in danger, like driving a vehicle while under the influence, the punishment should be so severe that they don't dare do it.

That's the problem, people just don't seem to care about the consequences anymore, drunk drivers get a fucking slap on the wrist for killing someone, they should be tried as murderers for it really.
 
Let's make hang gliding, sky diving, bungee jumping and snowboarding illegal, they're all dangerous activities that have no positive benefits other than an 'adrenaline high' (and possibly exercise for snowboarding, but that can be achieved with other lass dangerous activities).

Let's pretend for a moment that there are no health benefits to masturbation. Or even better that we found all the same benefits in exercise. Would you want to ban masturbation, after all kids need limits and we'd all be disgusted if someone jerked off in public so let's make it illegal to jerk off in private as well. Not to mention second hand stickiness (or 3rd hand if you prefer using both hands).

Yeah it will be impossible to enforce, it will waste a lot of money, clog our prisons, encroach our liberties and make the idea that we live in a free country even more of a joke but let's ignore all that and focus on the fact masturbation had no positive benefits other than ones you can get elsewhere.

We can continue using that logic and ban fatty foods if you wish (and maybe even guns).
 
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That's the problem, people just don't seem to care about the consequences anymore, drunk drivers get a fucking slap on the wrist for killing someone, they should be tried as murderers for it really.

Typically a manslaughter charge is brought up.

If they aren't convicted of that when they clearly killed someone while driving drunk, then I think the lawyers are more to blame than whatever the laws might be.
 
That's the problem, people just don't seem to care about the consequences anymore, drunk drivers get a fucking slap on the wrist for killing someone, they should be tried as murderers for it really.

I've known people in AA and went to a few meetings with them. I got to listen to alcoholics talk about their lives and eat stale cookies. One guy talked about killing a guy in a head-on collision that he caused, and didn't get any jail time even though his blood-alcohol level was well above the legal limit. He didn't brag and was truly sorry, but I wanted to punch him after the meeting.
 
1) I am not for legalizing something just for potential tax revenue
2) Kids and people need limits in society... there is right and wrong... just as a 'kid' should be punished for DUI, or drunk in public, or for huffing glue, or making crystal meth from sudafed, or taking heroin, or whatever... so they should be punished for the use of pot and anything related to it's use and distribution, as it is illegal
3) If they do try and criminalize tobacco, shitstorm or not, I would not fight it or scream bloody murder.. do I think it will happen in my lifetime? No... but because it is legal, does not mean that we change the legality of something that has zero positive benefits
4) No benefit, other than some very rare uses for medicinal purposes (which are handled by the drug marinol, which is legally prescribed) have been shown whatsoever... not one.. zilch.. nada.. again, I do not support decriminalizing for the sake of a high

Your argument here is that smoking Marijuana is a Malum in se crime. That is that it is immoral (not RIGHT) to smoke pot.

I would argue that it is not immoral to smoke pot, but it is instead a Malum prohibitum crime. That is a crime because the legislature has pronounced it a crime.

Qualitatively, I see no difference in smoking one weed or another. If you smoke tobacco, you get a "high" of a sort from the nicotine. If you smoke marijuana, you get a different kind of high. The difference is that the legislature said smoking pot is illegal.

If you think there is no benefit in society for self-administered methods of "taking the edge off," you're nuts. We'd have nation of people wound tight and ready to explode people. Not good. Having relatively harmless methods for people to check out or check down for a couple hours, is a good idea and has a great societal benefit.
 
You Pot Heads need to worry about things that matter, the economy, the war,corrupt politicians (or the government in general)...preferably while you are not stoned.
 
You Pot Heads need to worry about things that matter, the economy, the war,corrupt politicians (or the government in general)...preferably while you are not stoned.

Please refrain from the use of red herrings as they are really annoying.
 
You Pot Heads need to worry about things that matter, the economy, the war,corrupt politicians (or the government in general)...preferably while you are not stoned.

Advocating that the government does not have the right to dictate what anyone puts in their own body is part of worrying about government in general.
 

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