Marco Rubio: "Turkish forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds

[GWV5903]

If it is true.....Blood is on trump's hands.....THE INCOMPETENT BASTARD....

Actually the blood is on Obama and Biden's hands.

YOU are a DICK.....and Ignored.....racist bastard....

Mr. Keyboard Commando, strong on message board, weak as shit in the real world...

 

[White_MAGA_Man]

If it is true.....Blood is on trump's hands.....THE INCOMPETENT BASTARD....

Actually the blood is on Obama and Biden's hands.

YOU are a DICK.....and Ignored.....racist bastard....

Awe...... I've got you.....

 

[Lakhota]

Tomorrow should be an active news day.

 

[Zorro!]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

Marco can go fuck himself.....little bastard helped arm ISIS.

October 13, 2019
Do We Owe the Kurds a War?
By Tom Trinko
At first glance, we should be protecting the Kurds from the Turks. But after fighting in the Middle East for decades, we need to do a deep dive before committing America to another war there.

We don't know what information Donald Trump based his decision on. If he had intel that Turkey was going in with or without our approval, then removing our troops would be the only way that Trump could ensure we didn't get into a war with Turkey. Once Turkey killed Americans, it would be hard to avoid a conflict, even if, after the conflict had started and Americans were dying, Americans changed their minds.

Even without that intel, the Turkish leader is a would-be dictator and strongman, hence any brinkmanship by Trump could result in a war. Dictators are much fonder of wars that unify their countries than are the leaders of truly democratic countries. The reality is that any pushback against the Turks could have a high probability of getting America into a major conflict with Turkey and possibly Russia.

Given that Turkey is close to Russia both geographically and politically, any U.S. attack on Turkey could end up driving Turkey out of NATO and into an alignment with Russia and Iran. That could lead to a war between the U.S. and Russia, which would be a very bad thing according to the people who ponder such things.

Not to mention that since Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

While the Kurds have been fighting the good fight, does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests. Iraq has shown us that a war that doesn't result in a stable peace, a war that we withdraw from prematurely, is worse than no war at all in most cases.

We know that the U.S. is sharing intel with the Kurds since we warned them of upcoming Turkish attacks. We could also be providing them with the weapons they need to fight off the Turks. Remember the Afghans managed to fight off the Soviet Union, which was much more powerful than Turkey is now, with just intelligence and weapons from the U.S.

Also, we should keep in mind that the Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into. If the net result of Turkey's actions is that the Kurds are restricted to the territory they control in Iraq, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

If Bush's liberation of Iraq taught us anything it's that the people of the Middle East don't think the way we do. We thought we'd be treated as liberators when we overthrew Saddam, yet we ended up being hated by the very people we'd freed. The Kurds would be unlikely to be that ungrateful, but the simple reality is that even if we did fight Turkey and win with little in the way of casualties, the consequences could be long-term and severe.

While the neocons who are condemning Trump for this are consistent — they've been for fighting overseas for ages — most of the people who are criticizing Trump are simply attacking him because they attack anything he does.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

One doesn't have to be an isolationist to argue that America has no obligation to wage a war to defend the Kurds.

While it's true that the Kurds have done a great job fighting ISIS, which has helped America, they fought ISIS not out of charity, but for their own survival. We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

That doesn't mean it's wrong to fight a war for them against the Turks, but it certainly means we're not morally obligated to do so.


While we all feel the desire to protect the Kurds from the Turks, the simple reality is that anything beyond supplying them with intelligence and the weapons they need to defend themselves is simply a bridge too far, given what the American people want.

Without knowing what tools Trump used to try to dissuade the Turks from attacking the Kurds, we can't know for sure if more could have been done without taking a serious risk that a war would occur, so it's impossible to say at this time if Trump could have done more.

But given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/do_we_owe_the_kurds_a_war.html​

Great Article, thanks for linking to it.

If Marco wants a Congressional Declaration of War against Turkey, has he introduced one?

Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

Does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests.

The Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

Democrats control the House, if the want a declaration of War to protect the Kurds, why haven't they passed one?

The folks who are condemning Trump over this aren't calling for the U.S. to start a war against China in order to protect the people of Hong Kong or to liberate the million-plus people China has in concentration camps, many of whom are used for involuntary organ donations.

Given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

 

[TomParks]

Let the animals kill themselves....they try attacking us nuke em

 

[JWBooth]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

Marco can go fuck himself.....little bastard helped arm ISIS.

October 13, 2019
Do We Owe the Kurds a War?
By Tom Trinko
At first glance, we should be protecting the Kurds from the Turks. But after fighting in the Middle East for decades, we need to do a deep dive before committing America to another war there.

We don't know what information Donald Trump based his decision on. If he had intel that Turkey was going in with or without our approval, then removing our troops would be the only way that Trump could ensure we didn't get into a war with Turkey. Once Turkey killed Americans, it would be hard to avoid a conflict, even if, after the conflict had started and Americans were dying, Americans changed their minds.

Even without that intel, the Turkish leader is a would-be dictator and strongman, hence any brinkmanship by Trump could result in a war. Dictators are much fonder of wars that unify their countries than are the leaders of truly democratic countries. The reality is that any pushback against the Turks could have a high probability of getting America into a major conflict with Turkey and possibly Russia.

Given that Turkey is close to Russia both geographically and politically, any U.S. attack on Turkey could end up driving Turkey out of NATO and into an alignment with Russia and Iran. That could lead to a war between the U.S. and Russia, which would be a very bad thing according to the people who ponder such things.

Not to mention that since Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

While the Kurds have been fighting the good fight, does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests. Iraq has shown us that a war that doesn't result in a stable peace, a war that we withdraw from prematurely, is worse than no war at all in most cases.

We know that the U.S. is sharing intel with the Kurds since we warned them of upcoming Turkish attacks. We could also be providing them with the weapons they need to fight off the Turks. Remember the Afghans managed to fight off the Soviet Union, which was much more powerful than Turkey is now, with just intelligence and weapons from the U.S.

Also, we should keep in mind that the Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into. If the net result of Turkey's actions is that the Kurds are restricted to the territory they control in Iraq, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

If Bush's liberation of Iraq taught us anything it's that the people of the Middle East don't think the way we do. We thought we'd be treated as liberators when we overthrew Saddam, yet we ended up being hated by the very people we'd freed. The Kurds would be unlikely to be that ungrateful, but the simple reality is that even if we did fight Turkey and win with little in the way of casualties, the consequences could be long-term and severe.

While the neocons who are condemning Trump for this are consistent — they've been for fighting overseas for ages — most of the people who are criticizing Trump are simply attacking him because they attack anything he does.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

One doesn't have to be an isolationist to argue that America has no obligation to wage a war to defend the Kurds.

While it's true that the Kurds have done a great job fighting ISIS, which has helped America, they fought ISIS not out of charity, but for their own survival. We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

That doesn't mean it's wrong to fight a war for them against the Turks, but it certainly means we're not morally obligated to do so.


While we all feel the desire to protect the Kurds from the Turks, the simple reality is that anything beyond supplying them with intelligence and the weapons they need to defend themselves is simply a bridge too far, given what the American people want.

Without knowing what tools Trump used to try to dissuade the Turks from attacking the Kurds, we can't know for sure if more could have been done without taking a serious risk that a war would occur, so it's impossible to say at this time if Trump could have done more.

But given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/do_we_owe_the_kurds_a_war.html​

Great Article, thanks for linking to it.

If Marco wants a Congressional Declaration of War against Turkey, has he introduced one?

Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

Does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests.

The Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

Democrats control the House, if the want a declaration of War to protect the Kurds, why haven't they passed one?

The folks who are condemning Trump over this aren't calling for the U.S. to start a war against China in order to protect the people of Hong Kong or to liberate the million-plus people China has in concentration camps, many of whom are used for involuntary organ donations.

Given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

Pretty much agree on all points. Well done.

 

[Muhammed]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

Marco can go fuck himself.....little bastard helped arm ISIS.

October 13, 2019
Do We Owe the Kurds a War?
By Tom Trinko
At first glance, we should be protecting the Kurds from the Turks. But after fighting in the Middle East for decades, we need to do a deep dive before committing America to another war there.

We don't know what information Donald Trump based his decision on. If he had intel that Turkey was going in with or without our approval, then removing our troops would be the only way that Trump could ensure we didn't get into a war with Turkey. Once Turkey killed Americans, it would be hard to avoid a conflict, even if, after the conflict had started and Americans were dying, Americans changed their minds.

Even without that intel, the Turkish leader is a would-be dictator and strongman, hence any brinkmanship by Trump could result in a war. Dictators are much fonder of wars that unify their countries than are the leaders of truly democratic countries. The reality is that any pushback against the Turks could have a high probability of getting America into a major conflict with Turkey and possibly Russia.

Given that Turkey is close to Russia both geographically and politically, any U.S. attack on Turkey could end up driving Turkey out of NATO and into an alignment with Russia and Iran. That could lead to a war between the U.S. and Russia, which would be a very bad thing according to the people who ponder such things.

Not to mention that since Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

While the Kurds have been fighting the good fight, does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests. Iraq has shown us that a war that doesn't result in a stable peace, a war that we withdraw from prematurely, is worse than no war at all in most cases.

We know that the U.S. is sharing intel with the Kurds since we warned them of upcoming Turkish attacks. We could also be providing them with the weapons they need to fight off the Turks. Remember the Afghans managed to fight off the Soviet Union, which was much more powerful than Turkey is now, with just intelligence and weapons from the U.S.

Also, we should keep in mind that the Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into. If the net result of Turkey's actions is that the Kurds are restricted to the territory they control in Iraq, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

If Bush's liberation of Iraq taught us anything it's that the people of the Middle East don't think the way we do. We thought we'd be treated as liberators when we overthrew Saddam, yet we ended up being hated by the very people we'd freed. The Kurds would be unlikely to be that ungrateful, but the simple reality is that even if we did fight Turkey and win with little in the way of casualties, the consequences could be long-term and severe.

While the neocons who are condemning Trump for this are consistent — they've been for fighting overseas for ages — most of the people who are criticizing Trump are simply attacking him because they attack anything he does.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

One doesn't have to be an isolationist to argue that America has no obligation to wage a war to defend the Kurds.

While it's true that the Kurds have done a great job fighting ISIS, which has helped America, they fought ISIS not out of charity, but for their own survival. We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

That doesn't mean it's wrong to fight a war for them against the Turks, but it certainly means we're not morally obligated to do so.


While we all feel the desire to protect the Kurds from the Turks, the simple reality is that anything beyond supplying them with intelligence and the weapons they need to defend themselves is simply a bridge too far, given what the American people want.

Without knowing what tools Trump used to try to dissuade the Turks from attacking the Kurds, we can't know for sure if more could have been done without taking a serious risk that a war would occur, so it's impossible to say at this time if Trump could have done more.

But given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/do_we_owe_the_kurds_a_war.html​

Turkey is a NATO member and the US has 2 very strategic air bases in Turkey. With nukes. On the other hand, the PKK has been on the US list of foreign terrorist organizations since 1998.

And let us not forget article 5 of the NATO Charter.

Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .
Article 6 1
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

 

[JWBooth]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

Fuck the little chickenhawk dwarf. All of this faux concern. Wake us when he submits a declaration of war resolution.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

protecting this minority from the persecution from the majority is just as important as protecting Jewish people from the same forces.

Not our job. Daddy Daycare closed shop up.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

If true - this is barbaric. Trump owns this mess. However, I don't consider Rubio a reliable source.

When you hear that the antiWar Left wants to defend a border

Muslim borders not American ones.

 

[22lcidw]

The beheadings are a war crime and Erdogan should be hauled in to face the International War Crimes Tribunal.

Along with Trump!!!!!

All we are saying man is....give peace a chance! It would be fitting if Non Progs had Woodstock 2 to counter the Prog lust for war.

 

[Snouter]

Kurds need a homeland. And Kurds need to set up museums and memorials in most US cities. And then take billions a year in US taxpayer money. And then get reparations from anywhere they can. And then have Kurds become school "teachers" in the USA. It all fits a pattern to attack the West. Middle east savages are biologically savages. Get over it.

 

[NoVote]

Just imagine how sad and ashamed U.S. troops must feel who fought alongside the Kurds who are now being slaughtered by Turkey.

Ask me. I was in Viet Nam in it's early years, and watched OUR troops die ever since, in other presidents wars they fought for awhile then left. SO WHAT? You know why we get into these things? To test some new plane or weapon, it's not cause we love those low lifes. Freedom? HAHAHAHA,. anyone who ever fought for someone elses freedom and they didn't, know that the only people who are free are the ones who fought for it themselves. A few non thinkers may feel bad, a few born killers who like the opportunity to kill will SAY they feel bad, but take my word for it, most are breathing a sigh of relief and will vote for Trump with a smile in 2020. Bet on it. LOLOL

 

[mudwhistle]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

If true - this is barbaric. Trump owns this mess. However, I don't consider Rubio a reliable source.

Nope.....sorry bitch....this is the crap that Obama left behind for Trump to deal with......and he's dealing with it the only way he can. Ask yourself how many diplomats have been murdered in their compounds....how many soldiers have been killed.
The reason this is going on is because Obama was arming and training ISIS in Syria. Now Trump is just trying to get us out of there without getting into another war.

 

[mudwhistle]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

Marco can go fuck himself.....little bastard helped arm ISIS.

October 13, 2019
Do We Owe the Kurds a War?
By Tom Trinko
At first glance, we should be protecting the Kurds from the Turks. But after fighting in the Middle East for decades, we need to do a deep dive before committing America to another war there.

We don't know what information Donald Trump based his decision on. If he had intel that Turkey was going in with or without our approval, then removing our troops would be the only way that Trump could ensure we didn't get into a war with Turkey. Once Turkey killed Americans, it would be hard to avoid a conflict, even if, after the conflict had started and Americans were dying, Americans changed their minds.

Even without that intel, the Turkish leader is a would-be dictator and strongman, hence any brinkmanship by Trump could result in a war. Dictators are much fonder of wars that unify their countries than are the leaders of truly democratic countries. The reality is that any pushback against the Turks could have a high probability of getting America into a major conflict with Turkey and possibly Russia.

Given that Turkey is close to Russia both geographically and politically, any U.S. attack on Turkey could end up driving Turkey out of NATO and into an alignment with Russia and Iran. That could lead to a war between the U.S. and Russia, which would be a very bad thing according to the people who ponder such things.

Not to mention that since Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

While the Kurds have been fighting the good fight, does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests. Iraq has shown us that a war that doesn't result in a stable peace, a war that we withdraw from prematurely, is worse than no war at all in most cases.

We know that the U.S. is sharing intel with the Kurds since we warned them of upcoming Turkish attacks. We could also be providing them with the weapons they need to fight off the Turks. Remember the Afghans managed to fight off the Soviet Union, which was much more powerful than Turkey is now, with just intelligence and weapons from the U.S.

Also, we should keep in mind that the Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into. If the net result of Turkey's actions is that the Kurds are restricted to the territory they control in Iraq, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

If Bush's liberation of Iraq taught us anything it's that the people of the Middle East don't think the way we do. We thought we'd be treated as liberators when we overthrew Saddam, yet we ended up being hated by the very people we'd freed. The Kurds would be unlikely to be that ungrateful, but the simple reality is that even if we did fight Turkey and win with little in the way of casualties, the consequences could be long-term and severe.

While the neocons who are condemning Trump for this are consistent — they've been for fighting overseas for ages — most of the people who are criticizing Trump are simply attacking him because they attack anything he does.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

One doesn't have to be an isolationist to argue that America has no obligation to wage a war to defend the Kurds.

While it's true that the Kurds have done a great job fighting ISIS, which has helped America, they fought ISIS not out of charity, but for their own survival. We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

That doesn't mean it's wrong to fight a war for them against the Turks, but it certainly means we're not morally obligated to do so.


While we all feel the desire to protect the Kurds from the Turks, the simple reality is that anything beyond supplying them with intelligence and the weapons they need to defend themselves is simply a bridge too far, given what the American people want.

Without knowing what tools Trump used to try to dissuade the Turks from attacking the Kurds, we can't know for sure if more could have been done without taking a serious risk that a war would occur, so it's impossible to say at this time if Trump could have done more.

But given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/do_we_owe_the_kurds_a_war.html​

Turkey is a NATO member and the US has 2 very strategic air bases in Turkey. With nukes. On the other hand, the PKK has been on the US list of foreign terrorist organizations since 1998.

And let us not forget article 5 of the NATO Charter.

Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .
Article 6 1
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

So this explains why Nancy Pelosi flew to Brussels earlier this year.
NATO is involved in a conspiracy to help Democrats in the election.

I remember the squalls they were making when Trump pulled their military flights and forced them to have to book commercial. That was classic.
I think when someone commits treason by flying overseas....their passports should be revoked and entry into the US barred. It would be hilarious of Nancy Pelosi had to jump a fence at the border to get back in. But then she would be with the folks that she loves.

 

[mudwhistle]

This is awful..
I thought beheadings were an ISIS thing.

As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds - U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.

Marco Rubio on Twitter
In related news, here's a thread that didn't age well:
Obungles leaves the Kurds out to dry

Marco can go fuck himself.....little bastard helped arm ISIS.

October 13, 2019
Do We Owe the Kurds a War?
By Tom Trinko
At first glance, we should be protecting the Kurds from the Turks. But after fighting in the Middle East for decades, we need to do a deep dive before committing America to another war there.

We don't know what information Donald Trump based his decision on. If he had intel that Turkey was going in with or without our approval, then removing our troops would be the only way that Trump could ensure we didn't get into a war with Turkey. Once Turkey killed Americans, it would be hard to avoid a conflict, even if, after the conflict had started and Americans were dying, Americans changed their minds.

Even without that intel, the Turkish leader is a would-be dictator and strongman, hence any brinkmanship by Trump could result in a war. Dictators are much fonder of wars that unify their countries than are the leaders of truly democratic countries. The reality is that any pushback against the Turks could have a high probability of getting America into a major conflict with Turkey and possibly Russia.

Given that Turkey is close to Russia both geographically and politically, any U.S. attack on Turkey could end up driving Turkey out of NATO and into an alignment with Russia and Iran. That could lead to a war between the U.S. and Russia, which would be a very bad thing according to the people who ponder such things.

Not to mention that since Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

While the Kurds have been fighting the good fight, does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests. Iraq has shown us that a war that doesn't result in a stable peace, a war that we withdraw from prematurely, is worse than no war at all in most cases.

We know that the U.S. is sharing intel with the Kurds since we warned them of upcoming Turkish attacks. We could also be providing them with the weapons they need to fight off the Turks. Remember the Afghans managed to fight off the Soviet Union, which was much more powerful than Turkey is now, with just intelligence and weapons from the U.S.

Also, we should keep in mind that the Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into. If the net result of Turkey's actions is that the Kurds are restricted to the territory they control in Iraq, that wouldn't be the end of the world.

If Bush's liberation of Iraq taught us anything it's that the people of the Middle East don't think the way we do. We thought we'd be treated as liberators when we overthrew Saddam, yet we ended up being hated by the very people we'd freed. The Kurds would be unlikely to be that ungrateful, but the simple reality is that even if we did fight Turkey and win with little in the way of casualties, the consequences could be long-term and severe.

While the neocons who are condemning Trump for this are consistent — they've been for fighting overseas for ages — most of the people who are criticizing Trump are simply attacking him because they attack anything he does.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

One doesn't have to be an isolationist to argue that America has no obligation to wage a war to defend the Kurds.

While it's true that the Kurds have done a great job fighting ISIS, which has helped America, they fought ISIS not out of charity, but for their own survival. We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

That doesn't mean it's wrong to fight a war for them against the Turks, but it certainly means we're not morally obligated to do so.


While we all feel the desire to protect the Kurds from the Turks, the simple reality is that anything beyond supplying them with intelligence and the weapons they need to defend themselves is simply a bridge too far, given what the American people want.

Without knowing what tools Trump used to try to dissuade the Turks from attacking the Kurds, we can't know for sure if more could have been done without taking a serious risk that a war would occur, so it's impossible to say at this time if Trump could have done more.

But given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/do_we_owe_the_kurds_a_war.html​

Great Article, thanks for linking to it.

If Marco wants a Congressional Declaration of War against Turkey, has he introduced one?

Turkey is currently part of NATO, it's conceivable that Europe would side, at least diplomatically, with Turkey to avoid Turkey unleashing millions of refugees on Europe.

Does anyone outside the Beltway think the American people would support hundreds if not thousands of Americans dying and spending trillions of dollars to protect the Kurds against the Turks?

If the American people don't think the Kurds are worth dying for, then a president who got us into a war to protect the Kurds would be going against America's interests.

The Kurds aren't confined to the parts of Syria Turkey might be moving into.

The same leftists who are saying Trump is a monster for letting down the Kurds applauded Obama running away from Iraq even though it set the stage for the rise of ISIS. Similarly, when Obama overthrew the government of Libya and then left the country to descend into chaos and terrorism, the voices of the Left found no reason to critique him.

We don't owe the Kurds anything, given that without U.S. support, the Kurds would still be fighting Saddam.

Democrats control the House, if the want a declaration of War to protect the Kurds, why haven't they passed one?

The folks who are condemning Trump over this aren't calling for the U.S. to start a war against China in order to protect the people of Hong Kong or to liberate the million-plus people China has in concentration camps, many of whom are used for involuntary organ donations.

Given the attitude of the American people about wars that don't directly protect them, it's hard to say Trump is being a bad president by not risking another endless war in the Middle East.

Pretty much agree on all points. Well done.

 

[JimH52]

The beheadings are a war crime and Erdogan should be hauled in to face the International War Crimes Tribunal.

Along with his enabler....trump....

 

[JimH52]

The beheadings are a war crime and Erdogan should be hauled in to face the International War Crimes Tribunal.

Amazingly, the whiners are more interested in stopping Trump from MAGA than averting what they claim is so horrific

Can you please understand that trump is an Incompetent serial liar? He is not qualified to be dog catcher.....

 

[pyetro]

Kurds need a homeland. And Kurds need to set up museums and memorials in most US cities. And then take billions a year in US taxpayer money. And then get reparations from anywhere they can. And then have Kurds become school "teachers" in the USA. It all fits a pattern to attack the West. Middle east savages are biologically savages. Get over it.

Were you criticizing the Kurds when Obama was President?

 

[pyetro]

Just imagine how sad and ashamed U.S. troops must feel who fought alongside the Kurds who are now being slaughtered by Turkey.

Ask me. I was in Viet Nam in it's early years, and watched OUR troops die ever since, in other presidents wars they fought for awhile then left. SO WHAT? You know why we get into these things? To test some new plane or weapon, it's not cause we love those low lifes. Freedom? HAHAHAHA,. anyone who ever fought for someone elses freedom and they didn't, know that the only people who are free are the ones who fought for it themselves. A few non thinkers may feel bad, a few born killers who like the opportunity to kill will SAY they feel bad, but take my word for it, most are breathing a sigh of relief and will vote for Trump with a smile in 2020. Bet on it. LOLOL

Republicans bitch about wars but they gave us Iraq and Afghanistan.