Many churches do not qualify to be tax exempt, this is why.

[Ariux]

I would rather see all charities treated the same as every other business.

Let's take your shit-for-brains idea one step further. Let's treat everything as a business. For example, instead of public schools getting tax money, they should be taxed. Instead of Am Track and the Post Office getting tax subsidies, they should be taxed. Instead of the federal courthouse being tax supported, it should be taxed just like any business.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I would rather see all charities treated the same as every other business.

Let's take your shit-for-brains idea one step further. Let's treat everything as a business. For example, instead of public schools getting tax money, they should be taxed. Instead of Am Track and the Post Office getting tax subsidies, they should be taxed. Instead of the federal courthouse being tax supported, it should be taxed just like any business.

That would require them to think their position through to its logical conclusion.

 

[FA_Q2]

You were under the impression that these people want hospitals to pay higher taxes? What the frack gave you that impression when they keep using the word church?

Perhaps because Skull (the one that has been advocating this approach the most) flat out said it...
What the frack mad you think we were talking about excluding anyone....

So called nonprofits also are exempt from sales taxes, property taxes etc.

They should not be.

No business should be tax exempt.

Religions and charities are big business and should be treated as such.

I don't see what's so sacred about nonprofits.

Some of these businesses rake in millions and pay their officers very well. Now if they show no profit then they won't be assessed an income tax but to exempt them from property and sales taxes is wrong.

These businesses and churches benefit from services just like anyone else why should taxpayers be forced to what amounts to donating to these businesses by picking up the tab for their use of services that would be paid for by taxes from which they are exempt?

What is so special about schools that they should not have to pay taxes? How about the fact that you personally have argued that everyone is entitled to an education even if they can't afford it? Now you want to tax schools on top of that? How stupid so you think I am?

Well, that's is asinine to say the least. Want to know what the difference is? Schools are funded by the government ergo taxing them would be simply asinine. No government agency should be taxed - they are getting tax money in the first place. As for private schools, as far as I am aware they do pay taxes. Correct me if I am wrong about that.

The only non profit that should be tax exempt I can think of is the SPCA. They really bend over backwards and do wonders for animals.

I would rather see all charities treated the same as every other business.

United Way in Las Vegas just got a $1,000,000.00 donation that they directly passed on to 2000 families in the form of $500.00 prepaid debit cars, if we treated them exactly like any other business they would have had to pay taxes on that donation, and and then withhold income taxes when they passed out the cards. That seems like a pretty stupid idea to me, but I am sure you can explain why it is better for the government to get that money than the people that actually need that.

Alternatively, I will accept an admission that you were simply wrong.

No, they would not because that donation was used as an expense. 0 profit, 0 income taxes. Some of that might go to property taxes but that should be one hell of a minor expense considering the amount you're talking about here and the fact that they should not require much space.

The point here, and the only reason that I would consider such an idea, is that the government is deciding who and what is going to be tax free. Would that money be better off in the hands of government, likely no. Should the government have the power to strong arm churches and charities by using their tax free status against them, also a hell no. You can't eliminate the latter if you are giving out special exemptions for one particular group or another. I have seen the government threaten a church before in CA by using the tax free status as a weapon.

Why would some of us think about removing tax free status? Simple, that special status is yet another form of government power exercised through special 'status' that can be revoked for little to no reason.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Perhaps because Skull (the one that has been advocating this approach the most) flat out said it...
What the frack mad you think we were talking about excluding anyone....

So called nonprofits also are exempt from sales taxes, property taxes etc.

They should not be.

I also pointed out to Skull specifically why his position is not what he says it is. No one wants to tax schools or hospitals, that would drive up the cost of education and health care.

Well, that's is asinine to say the least. Want to know what the difference is? Schools are funded by the government ergo taxing them would be simply asinine. No government agency should be taxed - they are getting tax money in the first place. As for private schools, as far as I am aware they do pay taxes. Correct me if I am wrong about that.

Private schools are usually set up as non profit corporations, they don't pay taxes. Those private schools also include most of the major universities in the East. As a matter of fact, even public universities are set up as non profits in order to facilitate donations.

I guess that makes you wrong, even if I don't say it.

No, they would not because that donation was used as an expense. 0 profit, 0 income taxes. Some of that might go to property taxes but that should be one hell of a minor expense considering the amount you're talking about here and the fact that they should not require much space.

You don't understand taxes, do you?

This donation would have to be reported as income if United Way operated as a regular business for tax purposes. They would not be able to deduct it as an expense unless the expense was related to them running the business. The only way that would work is if they claimed that all those people were employees, which would involve income taxes.

The point here, and the only reason that I would consider such an idea, is that the government is deciding who and what is going to be tax free. Would that money be better off in the hands of government, likely no. Should the government have the power to strong arm churches and charities by using their tax free status against them, also a hell no. You can't eliminate the latter if you are giving out special exemptions for one particular group or another. I have seen the government threaten a church before in CA by using the tax free status as a weapon.

The point here, and the reason you are wrong, is the government is not decideing that. They set up broad categories where people can choose to do public service work that allows them to be exempt from taxation. The Supreme Court specifically ruled that this creates only a minimum and remote involvement between church and state in Walz. They aslo said that the power to tax is the power to destroy, which is why liberals used to oppose taxes, and why they want to tax rich people now.

The government is not using the non profit status of churches against them they are threatening to use the power of taxation against them if they do not cooperate with the government's views. The solution to this is not to give the government the power to tax non profits, it is to make sure the government cannot tax them.

Why would some of us think about removing tax free status? Simple, that special status is yet another form of government power exercised through special 'status' that can be revoked for little to no reason.

Wrong.

In fact, it is so wrong it is backward.

 

[Too Tall]

Our diocese has more or less declared war on this administration - Religious Liberty | Diocese of Arlington

And it's a wonderful thing.

It will be a wonderful thing when a) their tax exempt status is taken away, and b) their declaration of war is shown to be totally ineffectual.

Our tax exempt status will remain. And, we will fight anyone - including this government - who tries to take away our First Amendment Right. That's the American way.

God bless the many Catholic charities and this comes from a Methodist.

We only have 135 members in our old wooden church but manage to give out 140 or more bags of groceries every other week at our food pantry. We sell a bunch of pumpkins at Halloween and have a yard sale now and then to stock the shelves.

Several grocery stores donate bread, cookies and pastry that is not quite out of date,and we get discounts for many items.

And, this is all done with volunteer labor. Can you imagine what it would cost if a government department tried to do this?

I might add that the folks that get this food come in all shapes, sizes, and colors and are just nice people that are down on their luck.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't see what's so sacred about nonprofits.

Some of these businesses rake in millions and pay their officers very well. Now if they show no profit then they won't be assessed an income tax but to exempt them from property and sales taxes is wrong.

These businesses and churches benefit from services just like anyone else why should taxpayers be forced to what amounts to donating to these businesses by picking up the tab for their use of services that would be paid for by taxes from which they are exempt?

What is so special about schools that they should not have to pay taxes? How about the fact that you personally have argued that everyone is entitled to an education even if they can't afford it? Now you want to tax schools on top of that? How stupid so you think I am?

Where did I ever say everyone was entitled to an education? In fact I have said that one can be better educated at a library than in a public school.

And as far as I know government owned institutions do not pay taxes. Private schools are just like any other business so they should be held to the same standards as any business.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The only non profit that should be tax exempt I can think of is the SPCA. They really bend over backwards and do wonders for animals.

I would rather see all charities treated the same as every other business.

United Way in Las Vegas just got a $1,000,000.00 donation that they directly passed on to 2000 families in the form of $500.00 prepaid debit cars, if we treated them exactly like any other business they would have had to pay taxes on that donation, and and then withhold income taxes when they passed out the cards. That seems like a pretty stupid idea to me, but I am sure you can explain why it is better for the government to get that money than the people that actually need that.

Alternatively, I will accept an admission that you were simply wrong.

If they don't show a profit they will not pay taxes. But they should not be exempt from sales and property taxes as that puts a burden of what amounts to a forced contribution to the charity by the people who live in the town, city or state in which the charitable business is located by forcing them to pick up the tab for services used by the charity.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't see what's so sacred about nonprofits.

Some of these businesses rake in millions and pay their officers very well. Now if they show no profit then they won't be assessed an income tax but to exempt them from property and sales taxes is wrong.

These businesses and churches benefit from services just like anyone else why should taxpayers be forced to what amounts to donating to these businesses by picking up the tab for their use of services that would be paid for by taxes from which they are exempt?

What is so special about schools that they should not have to pay taxes? How about the fact that you personally have argued that everyone is entitled to an education even if they can't afford it? Now you want to tax schools on top of that? How stupid so you think I am?

Where did I ever say everyone was entitled to an education? In fact I have said that one can be better educated at a library than in a public school.

And as far as I know government owned institutions do not pay taxes. Private schools are just like any other business so they should be held to the same standards as any business.

Do you support taxing libraries?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I would rather see all charities treated the same as every other business.

United Way in Las Vegas just got a $1,000,000.00 donation that they directly passed on to 2000 families in the form of $500.00 prepaid debit cars, if we treated them exactly like any other business they would have had to pay taxes on that donation, and and then withhold income taxes when they passed out the cards. That seems like a pretty stupid idea to me, but I am sure you can explain why it is better for the government to get that money than the people that actually need that.

Alternatively, I will accept an admission that you were simply wrong.

If they don't show a profit they will not pay taxes. But they should not be exempt from sales and property taxes as that puts a burden of what amounts to a forced contribution to the charity by the people who live in the town, city or state in which the charitable business is located by forcing them to pick up the tab for services used by the charity.

They make a profit, otherwise they would go out of business, just like anyone else.

 

[Skull Pilot]

United Way in Las Vegas just got a $1,000,000.00 donation that they directly passed on to 2000 families in the form of $500.00 prepaid debit cars, if we treated them exactly like any other business they would have had to pay taxes on that donation, and and then withhold income taxes when they passed out the cards. That seems like a pretty stupid idea to me, but I am sure you can explain why it is better for the government to get that money than the people that actually need that.

Alternatively, I will accept an admission that you were simply wrong.

If they don't show a profit they will not pay taxes. But they should not be exempt from sales and property taxes as that puts a burden of what amounts to a forced contribution to the charity by the people who live in the town, city or state in which the charitable business is located by forcing them to pick up the tab for services used by the charity.

They make a profit, otherwise they would go out of business, just like anyone else.

Excuse me but nonprofit businesses do not make a profit hence the term nonprofit.

They have to make enough to cover their expenses and that's it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What is so special about schools that they should not have to pay taxes? How about the fact that you personally have argued that everyone is entitled to an education even if they can't afford it? Now you want to tax schools on top of that? How stupid so you think I am?

Where did I ever say everyone was entitled to an education? In fact I have said that one can be better educated at a library than in a public school.

And as far as I know government owned institutions do not pay taxes. Private schools are just like any other business so they should be held to the same standards as any business.

Do you support taxing libraries?

What good does it do to tax a public institution?

If the library was privately owned and charged for membership then yes it should be treated just like any other business

 

[Skull Pilot]

I would rather see all charities treated the same as every other business.

Let's take your shit-for-brains idea one step further. Let's treat everything as a business. For example, instead of public schools getting tax money, they should be taxed. Instead of Am Track and the Post Office getting tax subsidies, they should be taxed. Instead of the federal courthouse being tax supported, it should be taxed just like any business.

When did I say anything about getting rid of all publicly funded entities?

The only one with shit between their ears here is you.

Am Trak is a private business and should not get subsidies; no private business should get subsidies and no private business should be exempt from taxes.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I would rather see all charities treated the same as every other business.

United Way in Las Vegas just got a $1,000,000.00 donation that they directly passed on to 2000 families in the form of $500.00 prepaid debit cars, if we treated them exactly like any other business they would have had to pay taxes on that donation, and and then withhold income taxes when they passed out the cards. That seems like a pretty stupid idea to me, but I am sure you can explain why it is better for the government to get that money than the people that actually need that.

Alternatively, I will accept an admission that you were simply wrong.

If they don't show a profit they will not pay taxes. But they should not be exempt from sales and property taxes as that puts a burden of what amounts to a forced contribution to the charity...

You oppose the forced contributuion to charity?

 

[Skull Pilot]

United Way in Las Vegas just got a $1,000,000.00 donation that they directly passed on to 2000 families in the form of $500.00 prepaid debit cars, if we treated them exactly like any other business they would have had to pay taxes on that donation, and and then withhold income taxes when they passed out the cards. That seems like a pretty stupid idea to me, but I am sure you can explain why it is better for the government to get that money than the people that actually need that.

Alternatively, I will accept an admission that you were simply wrong.

If they don't show a profit they will not pay taxes. But they should not be exempt from sales and property taxes as that puts a burden of what amounts to a forced contribution to the charity...

You oppose the forced contributuion to charity?

Imagine that.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If they don't show a profit they will not pay taxes. But they should not be exempt from sales and property taxes as that puts a burden of what amounts to a forced contribution to the charity...

You oppose the forced contributuion to charity?

Imagine that.

Do you then similarly oppose government welfare/entitlement progams?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Of course.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If they don't show a profit they will not pay taxes. But they should not be exempt from sales and property taxes as that puts a burden of what amounts to a forced contribution to the charity by the people who live in the town, city or state in which the charitable business is located by forcing them to pick up the tab for services used by the charity.

They make a profit, otherwise they would go out of business, just like anyone else.

Excuse me but nonprofit businesses do not make a profit hence the term nonprofit.

They have to make enough to cover their expenses and that's it.

Why do people assume non profit means they do not make a profit. The IRS defines a non profit as business where none of the profits are paid to the investors/owners of the business. The SPCA does not build all those shelters out of their losses every year.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Where did I ever say everyone was entitled to an education? In fact I have said that one can be better educated at a library than in a public school.

And as far as I know government owned institutions do not pay taxes. Private schools are just like any other business so they should be held to the same standards as any business.

Do you support taxing libraries?

What good does it do to tax a public institution?

If the library was privately owned and charged for membership then yes it should be treated just like any other business

What makes you think that all libraries are public institutions?