Man Teaches God

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by PoliticalChic, May 19, 2019.

  1. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    The rule against incest wasn't given for 2,500 years later.

    I think it kind of is obvious that incest wasn't a problem at the start.
     
  2. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    wegie.....that may be the longest post of yours I've seen!

    Excellent....well thought out and articulated.

    Keep on!




    I particularly liked this:
    "...developing a sense of tradition and order,..."

    Dennis Prager often conjectures on that very point.


    "The biblical view is that God made order out of chaos. Order is defined by distinctions. One such example is male and female – the only inherent human distinction that matters to God. There are no racial or ethnic distinctions in God’s order, only the human sex distinction. The left loathes this concept of a divine order. That is the primary driver of its current attempt to obliterate the male-female distinction."
    https://www.dennisprager.com/why-the-left-mocks-the-bible/
     
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  3. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    "Genesis is not science."

    Actually, in the larger picture.....it is.


    While much of the Bible is allegory and metaphor, the parallel with the modern view of evolution is truly astounding.



    1. God’s first command in Genesis is “Let there be light.” Nor is this the only introduction of light in the Genesis creation account, but it is the first, it represents the beginning of the formation of our solar system. And that was ‘The Big Bang’…some 13,700 million years ago. Quite an event…it lasted just 10 to the minus 35th seconds, beginning the universe, generating time and space, as well as all the matter and energy that the universe would ever, ever, contain! Big Bang…explosion….energy….light. But no atoms to form the sun for some time. Light…but no sun? So says science. And so says Genesis. Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter two.

    a. For reference, Genesis 1, verses 1-4: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.



    2. Modern science has largely revealed the earth’s history with respect to the land and the seas. Coincidently, the first chapter of the Bible relates a formation, a creation narrative, strangely similar to scientific understanding.


    a. Genesis 1: 6-10…”And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dryland appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.


    b. “The formation of the sea as well as the land is chosen as the second stage in the creation on the Bible’s first page. Modern science reveals that land and sea certainly were in place before the next stage in the scientific account of the history of the universe.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p.54. What a coincidence….or confluence.


    Curious, the author of Genesis lived in a landlocked region; and Moses wandered in the desert, not along the coast. Yet…sea and land appear in this prominent position in Genesis. Must be a coincidence….



    3. The opening page of Genesis asserts that plant life appeared after the seas were formed, and names specifically, grass, herbs and fruit trees. According to the author of Genesis, this is the stage where life actually begins: this is the first mention life of any kind. Plant life. Yet, the simple forms of life that are considered plant life were not discovered until a couple of millennia after Genesis was completed. So…how come Genesis mentions grass, herbs, and fruit trees at precisely this moment on the creation narrative? Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter four.


    a. Genesis 1: 11-12 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


    b. “ From about 400 million years back to 600 million years, all kinds of complex multicellular life would have been confined to the waters of the earth….Our world's ecosystems depend upon photosynthesis to construct the fuel that all life runs on; in an ancient world with conditions similar to today's, you would need plants (as organisms that can make complex "fuel" molecules using simple building blocks and energy available from the environment, plants are known as one type of autotrophs, or "self-feeders") to evolve first, or there would be no bottom link to the food chain.” Biology of Animals & Plants - Origins & History of Life on Earth



    4. Track the events in the creation account of Genesis and it’s amazing how closely the events conform to the current view of modern science. An explosion- the universe – oceans/land - plants- …And next, in verse 20, we find: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.


    Kind of unusual…since the author of Genesis, and, if we are to believe that the first one to speak those words, Moses, didn’t really live in a habitat that one might call ‘sea side.’


    Would have been understandable if this space in the Bible had, instead, have focused on the numbers of land mammals, birds, or insects found in ancient Israel, wouldn’t it? But, instead, marine organisms are specifically named: ‘Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,…’


    Wouldn’t it be interesting if science find lots and lots of marine organisms extant at this point? Imagine if Genesis actually parallels the history of life on earth as expounded by science. Be a heck of a coincidence.

    a. A truly important development took place some 521 million years ago, in the geological period known as the Cambrian. “The most abundant and diverse animals of Cambrian time were the trilobites. Trilobites had long antennae, compound eyes, many jointed legs, and a hard exoskeleton like many of their modern arthropod relatives, such as lobsters, crabs, and insects. The Cambrian is sometimes called the "Age of Trilobites"…” Paleobiology | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History


    b. No earlier fossils were found during Darwin’s lifetime: “If the theory [evolution] be true it is indisputable that before the lowest Cambrian stratum was deposited ... the world swarmed with living creatures. [Yet] to the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these earliest periods. . . I can give no satisfactory answer. The case at present must remain inexplicable.” http://www.paleosoc.org/Oldest_Fossil.pdf

    ....life at this stage, about 500 million years ago, was entirely marine.

    How could the Genesis writer have gotten this right?

    That writer…he’s landlocked, knows little of diversity….what are the odds that ‘chance’ is the answer?


    What are the odds?



    5. The sequence of events from the creation of the universe, to the present, begin with great explosion that produces the universe, including the earth. The earth cools enough for oceans to form. The first life is plant life, able to photosynthesize, and add oxygen to the atmosphere. All sorts of simple non-plants fill the seas, most wormlike, with soft bodies. Along come the trilobites, hugely advanced, with hard bodies…and most amazingly, with true eyes! This makes them the primary predators….but, imposes enormous evolutionary pressure on the other organisms. The result is the Cambrian explosion, lots of small organisms with defensive armor and hard exoskeletons, some 521 million years ago. So says modern science.


    a. “…Genesis shows remarkable accuracy when compared to the scientific story of life’s evolutionary journey. Here, the Genesis writer envisioned great creatures evolving from those tiny Cambrian forms, eventually making their way out of the sea….Genesis seems to have picked out all the events of the highest order of importance, and put them in the right order….I don’t know the odds against such a parallel- against making a successful guess at the scientific orthodoxy of three thousand year into the future from a knowledge base of nothing- but they must be extraordinarily long.” Parker, Op. Cit., p.163-164.


    b. An interesting sidelight is the ‘evolution of the Bible’ itself. Christians have incorporated a great deal of science’s process. Early in the 20th century, the Scofield Reference Bible was published. This was a new version of the King James Bible with which added a note to Genesis, suggesting what is called the “gap theory.’ It allows that millions of years could have passed between God’s creation of the heavens and the earth, thereby freeing Genesis from the literal six-day process. “What it left was a series- the same series- of timeless events; and it is these that match the scientific account of life’s history.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p. 160.


    6. Unavoidable is the recognition that, once the restrictions due to the ‘six-day’ view are removed, the order of events established by modern science conform to the sequence in the first chapter of Genesis, written millennia earlier: light from an explosion (the Big Bang), universe/earth formed, the seas from the cooling earth, plants as the first life forms; abundant sea life (the Cambrian explosion), the (evolution) of the flora and fauna we see today. Neat, eh?

    Lucky guess by the author of the creation account of Genesis?


    7. If it is not evidence for the God, then the author of Genesis 1, or Moses, perhaps, must have understood that the universe formed first, then the seas appeared on earth, and that life forms were photosynthetic. Following that, he had to have realized that an eye evolved in an early animal in the geological past, which triggered the evolution of all the major groups of animals that exist today. Still further, he must have felt that all of this occurred in the seas, before animals moved onto land, and only when they did move out of the water did mammals and birds evolve.


    The Old Testament was written, although not compiled, almost three millennia ago. It is extraordinary that the writer of the creation account in Genesis, chapter one, got it right in his exposition of the series of events: his sequence turns out to be scientifically accurate in terms of contemporary knowledge.


    Wow! What an incredibly lucky guess! What a considerable stroke of good fortune!


    The alternative explanation is divine intervention.


    1. “ a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not.” What do scientists think about religion?
     
  4. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    I found this book fascinating.


    [​IMG]



    Parker is a scientist.
     
  5. Moonglow
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    We can see it wasn't but old habits are hard to change.Essentially all humans are related since they all came from the two base pair...We are all committing incest...Oh my...
     
  6. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Not exactly. The law against incest is only with close relatives. Leviticus 18 goes through that. It's not a ban on any distant relationship, which of course is why the marriage of Mary and Joseph, the parents of Jesus, was legal. They were both in the linage of David, and were related, but they were distant relations, not close.
     
  7. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    The Bible is not an Ivy League university text book. It does record every single event and action. It records only what we need to know.

    G-d does not need to tell us every detail. He told us what we needed to know.
     
  8. Moonglow
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    I see he doesn't have time to tell the whole story.
     
  9. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Sure he has time. But he doesn't need to.

    Not knowing some unimportant details, doesn't hinder us from making a decision on whether the Bible is true or not.

    This is like reading some of the stories from 9/11. Do they give every single detail of what happened on that day leading up to the crash? No. They don't. Does that mean I should say "9/11 didn't happen, because the witnesses couldn't tell us what brand of coffee they had going into the building"?

    Of course not. Those details are not important to the primary story.

    You are free to believe or disbelieve as you wish. But saying they didn't give enough detail, when more than enough is given, is an excuse.
     
  10. norwegen
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    norwegen Gold Member

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    "We don't know." "Could have been." "Could just as well."

    Your post is full of conjecture.

    Read the passages carefully - Genesis 4:25-26 and 5:3-5. At 130 years of age, Adam begot Seth. By then, the story of Cain and Abel is over. In 130 years since the creation of "man" i.e., Adam, Cain grew up to be a farmer and then was exiled to a hostile civilization. When Seth is born, Eve laments that her two former offspring were gone, especially Abel. Her two other previous offspring (4:25).

    This is not conjecture. But then, I'm not a futurist who reads the Bible literally. You are, and so you say, "We don't know." Theorize all you wish; that's your prerogative.
     

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