Man Teaches God

[PoliticalChic]

8. Dershowitz believes deeply that the Bible is divinely inspired, but arrives at a view of God considerably different from the usual definition.



“…Dershowitz has written a thoughtful, provocative book about the violence and trickery that run through the Book of Genesis. The basic stories all figure in ''The Genesis of Justice'': Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah and the Flood, Abraham and Isaac, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jacob and Esau, Joseph and his brothers.

Across Genesis, as man's moral sense slowly evolves, Dershowitz continues, God is also learning -- to teach as well as to threaten, and to condemn individual sinners rather than scourging all mankind. The temptations and passions of the patriarchs explain the laws laid down at Sinai: ''The genesis of justice,'' Dershowitz concludes, with a deceptively playful pun, ''is in the narratives of injustice found in the Book of Genesis.''
The Genesis of Justice”





“……God is also learning…..”

Is this a possible addition to our definition of God?????

 

[Third Party]

What if each one of us is a brain cell of God?

 

[PoliticalChic]

What if each one of us is a brain cell of God?

Speaking of brains.....

It is deeply important to understand the two most human gifts, intelligence and free will.

...at the heart of religion....and by religion I mean the Judeo-Christian faith.....

....is free will.

And that free will is animated by the gift of intelligence.


Have you seen the cloak on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel...the cloak behind God?

It is a cerebrum.

The Brain on the sistine Chapel Ceiling


On the other hand, Oscar Wilde put it this way: "There is no sin except stupidity."

 

[Third Party]

What if each one of us is a brain cell of God?

Speaking of brains.....

It is deeply important to understand the two most human gifts, intelligence and free will.

...at the heart of religion....and by religion I mean the Judeo-Christian faith.....

....is free will.

And that free will is animated by the gift of intelligence.


Have you seen the cloak on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel...the cloak behind God?

It is a cerebrum.

The Brain on the sistine Chapel Ceiling


On the other hand, Oscar Wilde put it this way: "There is no sin except stupidity."

On the other hand, Freud said " Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

 

[PoliticalChic]

What if each one of us is a brain cell of God?

Speaking of brains.....

It is deeply important to understand the two most human gifts, intelligence and free will.

...at the heart of religion....and by religion I mean the Judeo-Christian faith.....

....is free will.

And that free will is animated by the gift of intelligence.


Have you seen the cloak on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel...the cloak behind God?

It is a cerebrum.

The Brain on the sistine Chapel Ceiling


On the other hand, Oscar Wilde put it this way: "There is no sin except stupidity."

On the other hand, Freud said " Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

Freud???

If one needs to advance the idea of all powerful, beneficent, omniscient government will take care of all one's wants and needs, the Left's mantra, and that one need no morality nor self-responsibility, well then,....

....turn to Sigmund Freud as your spokesperson.





. Valuable to the collectivists is Freud’s claim that people are not endowed with free will.

Here's what they don't want you to know:

“Freud was a charlatan, …He was a quack who routinely proscribed measuring to patients, then wrote fictional papers bragging about his phenomenal results. In one 1896 lecture, he claimed that by uncovering childhood sexual trauma he had healed some eighteen patients, he later admitted he hadn’t cured anyone.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History,” p. 166



Basing their ideas on science and reason.....is Freud 'science'?
Nope.....
Who says not?
He does.

“Freud's claims skirted falsifiability, the quality of being testable, a bedrock of the scientific method. Resistance to his lurid suggestions, he argued, meant only that he was onto something; heads I win, tails you really do want to fellate your father. He also conspired to excommunicate any analyst from the movement who dared to subject his ideas to critical scrutiny.

As Freud wrote to a close colleague, he was only "fantasizing, interpreting, and guessing" toward "bold but beautiful revelations." He claimed: "I am actually not at all a man of science, not an observer, not an experimenter, not a thinker. I am by temperament nothing but a conquistador."https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ad0011a4f70f




Freud….a pillar of Leftist doctrine.
Like Obama and Mueller.....a fraud.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. So, God may be able to learn from mistakes, and change His mind about certain decisions. And, he accepts arguments from his creations, quite a noble characteristic????

Could be????




In his book “The Right Side Of History,”p.25, Ben Shapiro relates an argument between rabbis, and God’s voice enters the debate on the side of one rabbi. The other rabbi says to God, you gave us the Torah on Sinai, and it supports our side of the question, so we don’t have to listen to you.


Later, when another rabbi asked, “What did the Holy One say when this happened?”

He said, ‘my children have triumphed over me.’”




Debate, the use of our intellect, is encouraged in the Judeo-Christian faith….no wonder Democrats eschew the faith. It fits neatly with Dershowitz’s treatise, which claims that the Hebrew Bible is the basis for our understanding of law: in need be explained, not just imposed. When God imposed his first law, death for apple-eating, upon consideration, he changed the penalty: it hadn’t been explained clearly enough.


“…that need for explanation is why jewish law has always been charac terized by its argumentative quality adam and eve arguing with god sarah arguing with the angel and abraham debating with the lord almost everybody arguing with just about everybody else the midrash has people arguing with angels angels arguing with god and everybody arguing with each other 221 that is why virtually all of the substantive and procedural rules that are decreed in the subsequent law books of the pentateuch flow from the stories of genesis…” https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi....com/&httpsredir=1&article=3560&context=byusq


Shapiro further proves the point: “It’s woven into the name of Israel itself- Yisrael, in Hebrew, means “struggle with God.” God wants man to use his mind, to explore ideas, not to submit without question.

This is the basis of, and what has made Western Civilization great.




Quite a different picture of God that Dershowitz paints, but one that is…..comfortable.

 

[alang1216]

9. So, God may be able to learn from mistakes, and change His mind about certain decisions. And, he accepts arguments from his creations, quite a noble characteristic????

Could be????

setting aside the fact that there is no evidence outside the Bible that God is Omnipotence, Omniscience, or Omnipresence, he can't be omniscient if he could either learn or change his mind. If God could change his mind or learn a major paradox would exist.

Does he know he is going to change his mind ahead of time? Not really a change of mind then. He must have known he'd drown everyone in a flood and then promise not to do it again.

Does he know what he will learn and when he'll learn it? If so he must already know it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. So, God may be able to learn from mistakes, and change His mind about certain decisions. And, he accepts arguments from his creations, quite a noble characteristic????

Could be????

setting aside the fact that there is no evidence outside the Bible that God is Omnipotence, Omniscience, or Omnipresence, he can't be omniscient if he could either learn or change his mind. If God could change his mind or learn a major paradox would exist.

Does he know he is going to change his mind ahead of time? Not really a change of mind then. He must have known he'd drown everyone in a flood and then promise not to do it again.

Does he know what he will learn and when he'll learn it? If so he must already know it.

Reading isn't your strong suit, huh?


Else, why would you simply parrot what I said?



My earlier post:


7. Seems we must re-evaluate that “Omniscience means all-knowing. God is all all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past, present, and future. Nothing takes him by surprise. His knowledge is total. He knows all that there is to know and all that can be known.”

He changed his mind about the particularly drastic punishment He had promised.




“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31

Not so fast….Genesis is filled with all kinds of problems due to those rascally human beings!!

Wouldn’t an omniscient God be prepared for this???





Later, God repents the creation of man, in effect conceding that this particular creation was not so good.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.” Genesis 6:6




Cleaver guy, that Dershowitz….proposes so many questions.

God….with several characteristically human foibles????

 

[alang1216]

9. So, God may be able to learn from mistakes, and change His mind about certain decisions. And, he accepts arguments from his creations, quite a noble characteristic????

Could be????

setting aside the fact that there is no evidence outside the Bible that God is Omnipotence, Omniscience, or Omnipresence, he can't be omniscient if he could either learn or change his mind. If God could change his mind or learn a major paradox would exist.

Does he know he is going to change his mind ahead of time? Not really a change of mind then. He must have known he'd drown everyone in a flood and then promise not to do it again.

Does he know what he will learn and when he'll learn it? If so he must already know it.

Reading isn't your strong suit, huh?


Else, why would you simply parrot what I said?



My earlier post:


7. Seems we must re-evaluate that “Omniscience means all-knowing. God is all all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past, present, and future. Nothing takes him by surprise. His knowledge is total. He knows all that there is to know and all that can be known.”

He changed his mind about the particularly drastic punishment He had promised.




“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31

Not so fast….Genesis is filled with all kinds of problems due to those rascally human beings!!

Wouldn’t an omniscient God be prepared for this???





Later, God repents the creation of man, in effect conceding that this particular creation was not so good.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.” Genesis 6:6




Cleaver guy, that Dershowitz….proposes so many questions.

God….with several characteristically human foibles????

You always parrot what you've already said so I thought you'd thank me for succinctly rephrasing. I'll take your parroting of your earlier post as a thank you.

If we agree that God is not omniscient, can we agree there is no reason to believe he is omnipresent or omnipotent either? We don't really even know if he is eternal, singular, or even good.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. So, God may be able to learn from mistakes, and change His mind about certain decisions. And, he accepts arguments from his creations, quite a noble characteristic????

Could be????

setting aside the fact that there is no evidence outside the Bible that God is Omnipotence, Omniscience, or Omnipresence, he can't be omniscient if he could either learn or change his mind. If God could change his mind or learn a major paradox would exist.

Does he know he is going to change his mind ahead of time? Not really a change of mind then. He must have known he'd drown everyone in a flood and then promise not to do it again.

Does he know what he will learn and when he'll learn it? If so he must already know it.

Reading isn't your strong suit, huh?


Else, why would you simply parrot what I said?



My earlier post:


7. Seems we must re-evaluate that “Omniscience means all-knowing. God is all all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past, present, and future. Nothing takes him by surprise. His knowledge is total. He knows all that there is to know and all that can be known.”

He changed his mind about the particularly drastic punishment He had promised.




“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis 1:31

Not so fast….Genesis is filled with all kinds of problems due to those rascally human beings!!

Wouldn’t an omniscient God be prepared for this???





Later, God repents the creation of man, in effect conceding that this particular creation was not so good.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.” Genesis 6:6




Cleaver guy, that Dershowitz….proposes so many questions.

God….with several characteristically human foibles????

You always parrot what you've already said so I thought you'd thank me for succinctly rephrasing. I'll take your parroting of your earlier post as a thank you.

If we agree that God is not omniscient, can we agree there is no reason to believe he is omnipresent or omnipotent either? We don't really even know if he is eternal, singular, or even good.

Comprehensions isn't your strong suit either.

I never agreed "that God is not omniscient".....Dershowitz made that argument.

Try to stick to what you believe.

 

[alang1216]

Comprehensions isn't your strong suit either.

I never agreed "that God is not omniscient".....Dershowitz made that argument.

Try to stick to what you believe.

I believe I agree with Dershowitz that God is not omniscient. It would create the paradox I previously mentioned if God learned, laughed, or changed his mind.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Comprehensions isn't your strong suit either.

I never agreed "that God is not omniscient".....Dershowitz made that argument.

Try to stick to what you believe.

I believe I agree with Dershowitz that God is not omniscient. It would create the paradox I previously mentioned if God learned, laughed, or changed his mind.

Now.....if you ever get around to reading.....

 

[Andylusion]

How about those other humans that existed when Adam and Eve with their children were supposed to be the only humans on the planet..These people are the ones that Cain was exiled to be with after killing his brother.

Genesis 5
"After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters."

You know Moonbat..... I have no problem with people who just simply don't believe the Bible. I can respect that Moonbat.....

But... if you are actually going to try and confront the Bible with supposed errors..... you need to actually read it first. Genesis 5, is only 4 pages into the Bible. Not even difficult pages, either.

So you want to try and critique the Bible, without even reading 4 pages in?

Just say you don't believe. That's fine with me. But don't make up crap, because you haven't even read the book, and have no idea what it says.

 

[Moonglow]

How about those other humans that existed when Adam and Eve with their children were supposed to be the only humans on the planet..These people are the ones that Cain was exiled to be with after killing his brother.

Genesis 5
"After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters."

You know Moonbat..... I have no problem with people who just simply don't believe the Bible. I can respect that Moonbat.....

But... if you are actually going to try and confront the Bible with supposed errors..... you need to actually read it first. Genesis 5, is only 4 pages into the Bible. Not even difficult pages, either.

So you want to try and critique the Bible, without even reading 4 pages in?

Just say you don't believe. That's fine with me. But don't make up crap, because you haven't even read the book, and have no idea what it says.

That is not even the part were was discussing..Carry on..

 

[Andylusion]

How about those other humans that existed when Adam and Eve with their children were supposed to be the only humans on the planet..These people are the ones that Cain was exiled to be with after killing his brother.

Genesis 5
"After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters."

You know Moonbat..... I have no problem with people who just simply don't believe the Bible. I can respect that Moonbat.....

But... if you are actually going to try and confront the Bible with supposed errors..... you need to actually read it first. Genesis 5, is only 4 pages into the Bible. Not even difficult pages, either.

So you want to try and critique the Bible, without even reading 4 pages in?

Just say you don't believe. That's fine with me. But don't make up crap, because you haven't even read the book, and have no idea what it says.

That is not even the part were was discussing..Carry on..

You brought up that Cain, and how there were other people, and said how can that be when there was only Adam and Eve to start with.

...... Adam and Eve lived 800 years, and had other sons and daughters.

That's where the other people came from.

What part of this is confusing to you?

 

[Moonglow]

How about those other humans that existed when Adam and Eve with their children were supposed to be the only humans on the planet..These people are the ones that Cain was exiled to be with after killing his brother.

Genesis 5
"After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters."

You know Moonbat..... I have no problem with people who just simply don't believe the Bible. I can respect that Moonbat.....

But... if you are actually going to try and confront the Bible with supposed errors..... you need to actually read it first. Genesis 5, is only 4 pages into the Bible. Not even difficult pages, either.

So you want to try and critique the Bible, without even reading 4 pages in?

Just say you don't believe. That's fine with me. But don't make up crap, because you haven't even read the book, and have no idea what it says.

That is not even the part were was discussing..Carry on..

You brought up that Cain, and how there were other people, and said how can that be when there was only Adam and Eve to start with.

...... Adam and Eve lived 800 years, and had other sons and daughters.

That's where the other people came from.

What part of this is confusing to you?

Yet that is not how the Bible describes them. Nor does the Bible state they are descendants of Adam nor do they recognize the age that Adam was when he had Cain..To much left unanswered..

 

[norwegen]

3. In the Bible, God sets out to create mankind, and, one would assume based on the above, that He knew exactly what he was doing, what the result would be, and all the outcomes of his creation. The God that Dershowitz presents would be bored under such a view, sort of like reading books where you knew the last chapters in advance.



4. And, since God infused his human creations with both intelligence, and with free will….anything could have occurred.

Easy enough to document those attributes assigned to human beings: No knowledge before the fateful apple-eating?? Wrong. After all, God addressed the folks in the Garden of Eden, and how could He do so if they didn’t have the wherewithal to comprehend His instructions?





5. God basically put up a no-trespassing sign, Genesis 2:17 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Herein is proof that Adam had the ability to understand, and the free will to behave….or to trespass. If He hadn’t given free will, why suggest they might do something having been told not to.





6. Law Professor Dershowitz looked at the penalty announced, death, and the actual sentence the folks got from God…..which was not death!

“My favorite interpretation of God’s failure to carry out His first threat is that God himself was still learning about justice and injustice. The text of Genesis supports the view of an imperfect, learning God.”
Dershowitz, “The Genesis Of Justice,” p. 40.



More of Dershowitz’s astute argument ….next.

True, we get a sense that in Genesis, law and government were not yet hard and fast. Throughout the Old Testament, the Israelites seemed to be developing a sense of tradition and order, maybe not so much because God lacked surefootedness but because the people did.

All the drama of a people groping their way forward without God (severed from Him in the Garden) - the violence, the drunkenness, the idolatry and sorcery, and all the rest - was a behavior that continuously frustrated God.

I take issue with Dershowitz’s idea of death in the Garden, though. Death in the Bible was condemnation. It was to worship idols, or to borrow from the more powerful verbiage of the prophet, to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is a knowledge of everything, even things apart from God, rather than to eat of the tree of life, which is from God.

Of course to the Hebrew writers, death was a biological phenomenon, but it was also spiritual. In fact, life in the Spirit seemed more meaningful to the ancients than life in the flesh did. Fellowship with God was their raison d'être, their purpose for life in the flesh. “It is the Spirit who gives life,” Jesus said. “The flesh is no help at all.” (Jn 6:63).

Death was condemnation, or separation from God. The Hebrews considered idolatry their great sin. It separated them from the living God. Idolatry was death, as the Scriptures allude to frequently. While death in the minds of the Israelites was condemnation, belief led to life. “The soul who sins shall die.” (Ez 18:20) This is precisely what Paul says to the Roman Christians, that “as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.” (5:18) Christ’s obedience restored life to humankind.

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (Jn 20:31)​

The people whom John is addressing are already alive physically; dead people don’t read manuscripts. They’re just not alive spiritually. It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all.

 

[norwegen]

How about those other humans that existed when Adam and Eve with their children were supposed to be the only humans on the planet..These people are the ones that Cain was exiled to be with after killing his brother.

Genesis 5
"After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters."

You know Moonbat..... I have no problem with people who just simply don't believe the Bible. I can respect that Moonbat.....

But... if you are actually going to try and confront the Bible with supposed errors..... you need to actually read it first. Genesis 5, is only 4 pages into the Bible. Not even difficult pages, either.

So you want to try and critique the Bible, without even reading 4 pages in?

Just say you don't believe. That's fine with me. But don't make up crap, because you haven't even read the book, and have no idea what it says.

That is not even the part were was discussing..Carry on..

You brought up that Cain, and how there were other people, and said how can that be when there was only Adam and Eve to start with.

...... Adam and Eve lived 800 years, and had other sons and daughters.

That's where the other people came from.

What part of this is confusing to you?

That's not where the people came from whom Cain feared might kill him. Adam lived another 800 years after Seth, who came after Cain. It was before this additional 800 years - before Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters - that Cain encountered other people. These people of Nod were wanderers; they never knew God.

Note also that one of Cain's more immediate descendants - Tubal-cain - fashioned implements of bronze and iron (Gn 4:17-22). People were populating the earth long before the Bronzed Age or the Iron Age.

Genesis is not science.

 

[Andylusion]

How about those other humans that existed when Adam and Eve with their children were supposed to be the only humans on the planet..These people are the ones that Cain was exiled to be with after killing his brother.

Genesis 5
"After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters."

You know Moonbat..... I have no problem with people who just simply don't believe the Bible. I can respect that Moonbat.....

But... if you are actually going to try and confront the Bible with supposed errors..... you need to actually read it first. Genesis 5, is only 4 pages into the Bible. Not even difficult pages, either.

So you want to try and critique the Bible, without even reading 4 pages in?

Just say you don't believe. That's fine with me. But don't make up crap, because you haven't even read the book, and have no idea what it says.

That is not even the part were was discussing..Carry on..

You brought up that Cain, and how there were other people, and said how can that be when there was only Adam and Eve to start with.

...... Adam and Eve lived 800 years, and had other sons and daughters.

That's where the other people came from.

What part of this is confusing to you?

That's not where the people came from whom Cain feared might kill him. Adam lived another 800 years after Seth, who came after Cain. It was before this additional 800 years - before Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters - that Cain encountered other people. These people of Nod were wanderers; they never knew God.

Note also that one of Cain's more immediate descendants - Tubal-cain - fashioned implements of bronze and iron (Gn 4:17-22). People were populating the earth long before the Bronzed Age or the Iron Age.

Genesis is not science.

Regardless, I would argue that those are exactly the people Cain was afraid of.

First we don't know how long it was between when Cain Killed Abel, and when G-d drove him away.

Second, the statement "The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters.", could be read as implying that he had other sons and daughters AFTER he had Seth. Or it could just as easily mean, Adam lived another 800 years after having Seth, AND he had other sons and daughters.

We don't know.

Third, Cain could have been approaching 130 years old, when he killed Abel. There is nothing to suggest that both were not already married to women, and had son's and daughter's, who also had kids.

Cain could just as well be worried about future relatives, such as the son's of Seth who had not been born yet, finding and killing him, as existing relatives of Abel. We don't know. Abel may have had children already, and Cain was worried about revenge.

So there is nothing in the text suggesting that there were other people besides the people spawned from Adam and Eve.

The bronze age and iron age, are not science. Go look it up. It was based on really bad opinion, that turned into 'science mythology'. It's made up.

 

[Moonglow]

Now let us reveiw the incestous relations of the siblings of Adam and Eve..