Man standing in his own back yard shot 20 times by police. He was armed with a cell phone.

[Taz]

What the hell was a black guy trying to do in his own backyard that looked so suspicious? Was he trying to break into his own house?

 

[harmonica]

maybe it has been posted, but did they find out if he was the carbreaker??

 

[emilynghiem]

So he was vandalizing properties and breaking into cars it was dark and he was running from the cops

All this was his own fault. If he wasn't being a piece of shit who was breaking windows and trying to steal cars he'd be alive and well

Life lesson

Don't commit crimes and you won't get dead

Well then he was a criminal, and must bear some of the blame. So now the penalty for breaking into cars and running from the police , is death on the spot! No judge , no jury.

No pity.

Dear Skull Pilot and Mickiel
I think you hit the issues dead on target.
Yes, if he was breaking into cars and evading arrest he is partly responsible for the circumstances.
But Mickiel is right, there is something called Due Process and getting convicted before being
deprived of life and liberty.

Trouble is, neither was Stephon Clark respecting "due process of law" before
depriving people of property if that's indeed what he was doing.

Both sides are to blame for violating lawful due process.
One side had guns and used them to stop the guy by killing him.

This could be prevented by teaching people and forming agreements
with each district to respect the laws and due process. Currently we
don't even teach people their rights until after a crime is committed and it's legally required to read them their rights.

Any teacher in school will tell you that the first step in getting students
assimilated in the classroom is to go over the rules AND the procedure in case of infractions.
All the students have to agree to follow these in order to participate in class.
We need to do the same with residents agreeing to live in a district,
and have signed agreements after training with police on what are the laws and procedures.

This would reduce infractions by teaching those who do have intent to comply with laws and authority,
while screening out the people with disorders addiction or other disability preventing them from
complying or rendering them legally or mentally incompetent, so they can receive assistance or supervision
in severe cases of threat to health or safety.

What if it had been other suspects who were guilty of the breakins?
Then if an innocent person got shot for their crimes, those people
should also be held responsible for felony murder, if someone dies during
the commission of a crime.

There is still an issue of black men getting profiled or getting shot instead of getting due process.
But we can't trust the media to tell us how often this happens or which cases are worse.
The case where a "white woman" got shot by police didn't get protested to the same degree.
I met the family of Travis Allen, a white teenager shot to death by police while lying in handcuffs
on the floor, because they thought he was reaching for something in his pocket.
That case didn't get national publicity either.

What we can do is treat all cases that occur with the same intent of addressing all causes
of what went wrong. If young men are committing crimes, whether breaking into cars
as Stephon Clark was suspected or being addicted to illegal drugs as Travis Allen was suspected,
these do not merit the death penalty, and certainly without due process to decide life or death.

Although the punishment was disproportional, the tragedy can be prevented by
addressing the causes of crime and addiction in advance, and not waiting for confrontation with police
to argue for "due process."

These tragedies do not know color, and can be prevented by addressing the
root causes that have affected people of all ages, races and colors.

Police may be caught profiling and discriminating, but that still doesn't address the root cause.
If we resolve those issues, then the same corrections will also change the attitudes
causing profiling and discrimination as well, but not vice versa. Only focusing on the
external problems after the fact will not solve the internal issues; but focusing on the
internal issues of the causes of crime and abuse and mutual respect for due process
will solve both internal and external problems on both sides.

Do you not think root causes of things have not been addressed before confrontation? Do you think that these things are always caused by crime and addiction? What crime did Tamir Rice commit. Was Trayvon Martin strung out on skittles? Was Amadou Diallo committing a crime by pulling out keys to unlock his apartment? Was Alton Sterling committing a crime when he got 6 bullets put in him point blank? What crime as Authur McDuffie committing when he was beat to death by cops? How about 61 year old Kenneth Chamberlain, killed by police because he accidently hit his life line? How about the 93 year old black woman gunned down by police in Atlanta during a mistaken drug bust? People like you work real hard to help obstruct from people working to get others to see the true root causes of these problems. You cannot ignore he fact that there are countless studies and cases that tell us there is a serious problem with racism in the criminal justice system. That a black man is 3 times more likely to get shot than a white one. What the media doesn't show is irrelevant. What the statistics show is. You want to deny statistics and doing that does more harm than good. I'm a back man and I'll be damned if a stupid ass black woman is going to jeopardize my life because she thinks she can appeal to the morals of people who are willfully immoral by validating their beliefs..

I didn't say ALL cases are the same, NONE of them are the same.

However IM2 if you want to relate what I said about spiritual healing curing the causes of ills in mind body and relationships, and how this applies to ALL communities and incidents that go wrong, I can explain that, too:

In addition to spiritual healing that cures the cause of many criminal abuses, addictions and even physical diseases as well, this process HELPS HEAL WHOLE COMMUNITIES.

So IM2 if an entire community goes through spiritual healing,
that ALSO REDUCES the risk of innocent people getting shot in cases that DIDN'T invovle anyone committing any crimes or had any abusive or addictive issues.

What you are missing is that this spiritual healing affects the police as well.
Those who are not abusive or fear-driven and stressed themselves
are less likely to abuse excess force; and/or if police are mentally unfit
they would get screened out by the spiritual healing process that identifies issues with police as well.

Now back to the case at hand This particular case with Stephon Clark.
Do you agree that either he was or someone else was breaking into cars
which triggered the whole incident? What put him in danger in the first place
was someone, whether he or others, refused to comply with law and authorities.

That may not be the case in ALL cases, but it is with THIS case.

so IM2 given your choice between individualistic or collectivism approaches,
which do you want to address here in this case:
1. the individual internal issue with the suspect(s) behind the violations
2. or collectively the healing of relations between police and community residents
that created this adversity and cost lives due to unresolved fears

I am happy to address either level.

The problem with your opinion is that you need to address those who created the root cause of the problem and demand spiritual healing from them. That would be the white community. In this case we don't know if Clarke was breaking into cars and still breaking into cars is not a crime that is punishable by death. Even if it were, that punishment must be determined by a court of law, not 2 police who decided to kill somebody then make excuses to justify the killing. The problem with you is that when you remove accountability from the killers to talk about how the black victim made it happen, you enable the white racists to discount EVERY killing of this nature. And because you do this, you empower them to dismiss every act of racism we face or the damage inflicted upon us because of it.. Those like you help police decide that black men are more violent and validate the fears they have that led to this killing.

Agree IM2
That's why I support the speaker at the rally who called for changes on all sides.

The whole Community agrees to participate in spiritual healing and forgiveness therapy, so ALL people can get screened out of any problems that would otherwise result in conflicts and possibly escalate. All these can be prevented.

Totally agree

So the deal that all sides need to agree to:
both the criminal abusers among the civilian population
and the abusive "bad cops" among the law enforcement
should be reported for complaints of abuse and get the counseling therapy.
This protects the GOOD citizens and cops from suffering from the
crimes of the BAD ones who are refusing to comply or unable to due to disability.

the spiritual healing uncovers the cause of the lack of compliance
so that can be resolved. Nobody gets hurt, Everyone gets help,
the citizens and taxpayers quit wasting money sending people through
courts and jails, and get to invest their tax savings into schools,
health care, elderly care, daycare and jobs for teachers and police,
doctors and nurses to serve their district and keep everyone safe and healthy.

Make it a mutual benefit where everyone agrees to report abuses for correction,
and then everyone works together instead of hiding these problems or denying them.

 

[IM2]

Well then he was a criminal, and must bear some of the blame. So now the penalty for breaking into cars and running from the police , is death on the spot! No judge , no jury.

No pity.

Dear Skull Pilot and Mickiel
I think you hit the issues dead on target.
Yes, if he was breaking into cars and evading arrest he is partly responsible for the circumstances.
But Mickiel is right, there is something called Due Process and getting convicted before being
deprived of life and liberty.

Trouble is, neither was Stephon Clark respecting "due process of law" before
depriving people of property if that's indeed what he was doing.

Both sides are to blame for violating lawful due process.
One side had guns and used them to stop the guy by killing him.

This could be prevented by teaching people and forming agreements
with each district to respect the laws and due process. Currently we
don't even teach people their rights until after a crime is committed and it's legally required to read them their rights.

Any teacher in school will tell you that the first step in getting students
assimilated in the classroom is to go over the rules AND the procedure in case of infractions.
All the students have to agree to follow these in order to participate in class.
We need to do the same with residents agreeing to live in a district,
and have signed agreements after training with police on what are the laws and procedures.

This would reduce infractions by teaching those who do have intent to comply with laws and authority,
while screening out the people with disorders addiction or other disability preventing them from
complying or rendering them legally or mentally incompetent, so they can receive assistance or supervision
in severe cases of threat to health or safety.

What if it had been other suspects who were guilty of the breakins?
Then if an innocent person got shot for their crimes, those people
should also be held responsible for felony murder, if someone dies during
the commission of a crime.

There is still an issue of black men getting profiled or getting shot instead of getting due process.
But we can't trust the media to tell us how often this happens or which cases are worse.
The case where a "white woman" got shot by police didn't get protested to the same degree.
I met the family of Travis Allen, a white teenager shot to death by police while lying in handcuffs
on the floor, because they thought he was reaching for something in his pocket.
That case didn't get national publicity either.

What we can do is treat all cases that occur with the same intent of addressing all causes
of what went wrong. If young men are committing crimes, whether breaking into cars
as Stephon Clark was suspected or being addicted to illegal drugs as Travis Allen was suspected,
these do not merit the death penalty, and certainly without due process to decide life or death.

Although the punishment was disproportional, the tragedy can be prevented by
addressing the causes of crime and addiction in advance, and not waiting for confrontation with police
to argue for "due process."

These tragedies do not know color, and can be prevented by addressing the
root causes that have affected people of all ages, races and colors.

Police may be caught profiling and discriminating, but that still doesn't address the root cause.
If we resolve those issues, then the same corrections will also change the attitudes
causing profiling and discrimination as well, but not vice versa. Only focusing on the
external problems after the fact will not solve the internal issues; but focusing on the
internal issues of the causes of crime and abuse and mutual respect for due process
will solve both internal and external problems on both sides.

Do you not think root causes of things have not been addressed before confrontation? Do you think that these things are always caused by crime and addiction? What crime did Tamir Rice commit. Was Trayvon Martin strung out on skittles? Was Amadou Diallo committing a crime by pulling out keys to unlock his apartment? Was Alton Sterling committing a crime when he got 6 bullets put in him point blank? What crime as Authur McDuffie committing when he was beat to death by cops? How about 61 year old Kenneth Chamberlain, killed by police because he accidently hit his life line? How about the 93 year old black woman gunned down by police in Atlanta during a mistaken drug bust? People like you work real hard to help obstruct from people working to get others to see the true root causes of these problems. You cannot ignore he fact that there are countless studies and cases that tell us there is a serious problem with racism in the criminal justice system. That a black man is 3 times more likely to get shot than a white one. What the media doesn't show is irrelevant. What the statistics show is. You want to deny statistics and doing that does more harm than good. I'm a back man and I'll be damned if a stupid ass black woman is going to jeopardize my life because she thinks she can appeal to the morals of people who are willfully immoral by validating their beliefs..

I didn't say ALL cases are the same, NONE of them are the same.

However IM2 if you want to relate what I said about spiritual healing curing the causes of ills in mind body and relationships, and how this applies to ALL communities and incidents that go wrong, I can explain that, too:

In addition to spiritual healing that cures the cause of many criminal abuses, addictions and even physical diseases as well, this process HELPS HEAL WHOLE COMMUNITIES.

So IM2 if an entire community goes through spiritual healing,
that ALSO REDUCES the risk of innocent people getting shot in cases that DIDN'T invovle anyone committing any crimes or had any abusive or addictive issues.

What you are missing is that this spiritual healing affects the police as well.
Those who are not abusive or fear-driven and stressed themselves
are less likely to abuse excess force; and/or if police are mentally unfit
they would get screened out by the spiritual healing process that identifies issues with police as well.

Now back to the case at hand This particular case with Stephon Clark.
Do you agree that either he was or someone else was breaking into cars
which triggered the whole incident? What put him in danger in the first place
was someone, whether he or others, refused to comply with law and authorities.

That may not be the case in ALL cases, but it is with THIS case.

so IM2 given your choice between individualistic or collectivism approaches,
which do you want to address here in this case:
1. the individual internal issue with the suspect(s) behind the violations
2. or collectively the healing of relations between police and community residents
that created this adversity and cost lives due to unresolved fears

I am happy to address either level.

The problem with your opinion is that you need to address those who created the root cause of the problem and demand spiritual healing from them. That would be the white community. In this case we don't know if Clarke was breaking into cars and still breaking into cars is not a crime that is punishable by death. Even if it were, that punishment must be determined by a court of law, not 2 police who decided to kill somebody then make excuses to justify the killing. The problem with you is that when you remove accountability from the killers to talk about how the black victim made it happen, you enable the white racists to discount EVERY killing of this nature. And because you do this, you empower them to dismiss every act of racism we face or the damage inflicted upon us because of it.. Those like you help police decide that black men are more violent and validate the fears they have that led to this killing.

Agree IM2
That's why I support the speaker at the rally who called for changes on all sides.

The whole Community agrees to participate in spiritual healing and forgiveness therapy, so ALL people can get screened out of any problems that would otherwise result in conflicts and possibly escalate. All these can be prevented.

Totally agree

So the deal that all sides need to agree to:
both the criminal abusers among the civilian population
and the abusive "bad cops" among the law enforcement
should be reported for complaints of abuse and get the counseling therapy.
This protects the GOOD citizens and cops from suffering from the
crimes of the BAD ones who are refusing to comply or unable to due to disability.

the spiritual healing uncovers the cause of the lack of compliance
so that can be resolved. Nobody gets hurt, Everyone gets help,
the citizens and taxpayers quit wasting money sending people through
courts and jails, and get to invest their tax savings into schools,
health care, elderly care, daycare and jobs for teachers and police,
doctors and nurses to serve their district and keep everyone safe and healthy.

Make it a mutual benefit where everyone agrees to report abuses for correction,
and then everyone works together instead of hiding these problems or denying them.

We have to drop this both sides thing. Both sides are not killing unarmed people Emily. Both sides do not believe that black men are so dangerous that the only way to deal with them is shoot hem until they are dead. That both sides stuff has black cops shooting up unarmed blacks so the white cop believes he won't protect his "brothers". This is stuff created by the white community. They refuse to hear anything different..They always have excuses for it. They always want to point fingers at us for being racists just for mentioning an act of racism by whites. They tell us blacks owned slaves first like black bought slaves over here which is not true. They want tp tell us about Africans selling each other or how there is still slavery in Africa instead of looking to themselves to repent for what they have done and keep doing HERE in America. This is what we are up against.. Both sides are not doing this Emily and only on side must repent for the racism they put on people of color in this nation. That's the spiritual healing that cures the nation. Not this both sides stuff. And that is what we must demand..

 

[harmonica]

anytime a criminal is shot DEAD, it's good for the community

 

[Slimdugger99]

anytime a criminal is shot DEAD, it's good for the community

I guess shooting criminals dead isn’t overly aggressive in moderator speak.


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