Man in Santa Suit Kills 8

[BlackAsCoal]

Read it again.
We don't lead the world in suicides, which is the point I'm making. THe number of suicides has nothing to do with guns, except that suicides will use them if they're available. So if they're available, they're more likely to off themselves with them.

But if they aren't available, the rate of suicide doesn't go down.

And if they aren't available, the rate of gun violence increases instead of decreasing, EXCEPT in cases of DV. But once again, there is no marked reduction in the severity or occurence of DV just because guns aren't available.

Wrong on all counts ...

Guns and Suicide

The Harvard School of Mental Health just published the results of a study that examined the relationship between household firearms ownership and the rate of suicide. According to the study suicide among people 45 years of age and younger suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death in the United States. Among the 50 states in the United States, those with higher rates of household gun ownership had higher rates of suicide among children, women and men.

It is important to understand, according to the study, that the higher rates of suicide among those who own guns has to do with the fact that guns are much more lethal than other methods of attempting suicide. What is troubling about this is that suicide attempts are viewed as a desperate call for help among those who are depressed or mentally ill with a psychotic illness. The rate of successful suicide completions is far less for people who use other methods than using a gun. For example, 75% of all suicide attempts are by the use of drugs. These people are found alive 97% of the time. Those who succeed in using drugs to attempt suicide are successful only 3% of the time. By contrast, more than 90% of all suicide attempts by use of firearms are successful. The bottom line is that anyone using a gun to commit suicide is not likely to have their call for help heard and responded to before its too late.
Guns and Suicide - Suicide, Depression, Anxiety Disorders

At Risk: Availability of Guns Raises Suicide Rates, Study Finds

People who live in communities with a lot of guns are more likely to kill themselves, a new study says.

The findings, the researchers say, add weight to the argument that when people have less access to guns, they are less likely to commit suicide. Earlier research raised the question of whether people intent on suicide would simply switch to another equally lethal method if unable to find a gun.

In the new report, in the current issue of The Journal of Trauma, researchers from the Harvard School of Public Health said they had found evidence that “the ready availability of firearms is likely to have the greatest effect on suicide rates in groups characterized by more impulsive behavior.”

The researchers, led by Dr. Matthew Miller, compared statistics on gun ownership by state with statistics on suicide. They also took into account factors like poverty, mental illness and drug abuse.

When they looked at the 15 states with the highest firearm ownership, the researchers found that twice as many people committed suicide as in the six states with the lowest firearm ownership. The population in each group of states was about the same, the researchers said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/health/17risk.html

I support the right of Americans to splatter their fucking brains all over the walls if they so choose.

 

[editec]

What's the old saying about guns in theater?

Introduce a pistol in the first act, somebody's dead by the third act.

Now, millions and millions of Americans own guns, are they are responsible guns owners, too.

Sadly, a small percentage of those armed Americans are walking time bombs -- armed time bombs.

There's really very little we can do about that EXCEPT demand that every gun owner undergo a rigorous pychological profiling test to establish if they are worthy of owning guns.

And I personally don't put much value in psychology's ability to profile the potential threats.

I mean, come on let's be honest with each other...at least on this board, shall we?

We've got two people on this board who have been expressing their longing for some kind of right wing revolution so they can start killing people whose political views they object to.

We all (board moderators included) pretty much all elected to ignore those posts, didn't we?

Do these punks actually legally own guns?

Probably. They both claim to own guns.

And there's the rub, folks

Childish angry idiots own guns...lots of them.

And even though people probably know these idiots don't have the sense god gave geese there's nothing any of us can do about the fact that they are legally armed.

Sooner or later some very small percentage of these childish angry idiots will start killing people with their cherished guns.

I see no legal solution to this problem.

None.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Not worried about criminals showing up at my house.

... and I don't have to worry about him going off and killing my daughter .. or my wife .. or me.

The force is with me.

 

[roomy]

Nice dog but he needs a hair cut, his fringe is too long.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I grew up mostly in Eastern Oregon, much the same way. A clean kill with as little ruined meat as possible. Until I bought some blackpowder guns, I used the same gun that I earned when I was nineteen, a 250 Savage. My first gun was a 32-40 Marlin, which I sold to help my parents at a time they needed money. Wish I had that old gun. Shot lousy, but it was a classic cowboy lever gun.

Now, I beleive that the second amendment is to be honored, but that we should have far more strictures on the people that own them. Guns are not toys, or just tools. They have only one use, that is to kill. Mine are for the killing of game as a source of meat. But they can be used as defense. That said, they are stored where they cannot easily be gotten at, and there is no way the can be used as stored. Ammo is in an entirely differant location, also. And also hidden. Guns, and there ownership is a serious responsibility, the failure of that responsibility results in the daily headlines we see here in the US.

As much as I wish it were otherwise, the general population of the US has a really poor record concerning responsible gun ownership.

Absolute bullshit, less than a 1000 people a year die to ACCIDENTAL discharges. Remind me again how many people die in Car Accidents? 300000 people over 200000 weapons in private hands and less than a 1000 accidental deaths a year, can you do the math on that for me? Usual ignorant crap.

Perhaps you should re read the 2nd Amendment, you know where it says the right to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

IDIOT .. one headless horseman in Canada does not equal more than 30,000 gun deaths a year in the US.

Compared to over 40000 deaths via car accidents. Ya I see which is more dangerous.

 

[Old Rocks]

compared to who ?

Just about the whole of the civilized world.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What's the old saying about guns in theater?

Introduce a pistol in the first act, somebody's dead by the third act.

Now, millions and millions of Americans own guns, are they are responsible guns owners, too.

Sadly, a small percentage of those armed Americans are walking time bombs -- armed time bombs.

There's really very little we can do about that EXCEPT demand that every gun owner undergo a rigorous pychological profiling test to establish if they are worthy of owning guns.

And I personally don't put much value in psychology's ability to profile the potential threats.

I mean, come on let's be honest with each other...at least on this board, shall we?

We've got two people on this board who have been expressing their longing for some kind of right wing revolution so they can start killing people whose political views they object to.

We all (board moderators included) pretty much all elected to ignore those posts, didn't we?

Do these punks actually legally own guns?

Probably. They both claim to own guns.

And there's the rub, folks

Childish angry idiots own guns...lots of them.

And even though people probably know these idiots don't have the sense god gave geese there's nothing any of us can do about the fact that they are legally armed.

Sooner or later some very small percentage of these childish angry idiots will start killing people with their cherished guns.

I see no legal solution to this problem.

None.

Ahh yes retarded comments by a moron. Tell me you dumb shit, in the 35 years I have owned weapons exactly how many people have I shot? Wait? That would be a big fat zero. But hey you go ahead and make your ignorant claims. Not only have I never shot anyone both of my kids grew up in a house with weapons and neither one of them shot anyone either. Such a horrible risk I am. You are beyond ignorant.

 

[Old Rocks]

Absolute bullshit, less than a 1000 people a year die to ACCIDENTAL discharges. Remind me again how many people die in Car Accidents? 300000 people over 200000 weapons in private hands and less than a 1000 accidental deaths a year, can you do the math on that for me? Usual ignorant crap.

Perhaps you should re read the 2nd Amendment, you know where it says the right to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed?

OK, stupid ass. Of the last 10 accidental gunshot deaths in Oregon that I read about, 7 of the victums were children. Killing themselves, or other children. One was an absolute case of criminal negligence. A group of gun nuts gave a boy a fully automatic weopon, and when he fired it, he lost control of it, and it rolled back and blew his head off.
Boy killed in gun show accident : Corpus Christi National | Caller-Times |

All adults concerned here should be tried for negligent homicide.

So we have about 700 children a year killed because the adults are stupid with how they handle or store guns. That is 700 too many.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ahh yes retarded comments by a moron. Tell me you dumb shit, in the 35 years I have owned weapons exactly how many people have I shot? Wait? That would be a big fat zero. But hey you go ahead and make your ignorant claims. Not only have I never shot anyone both of my kids grew up in a house with weapons and neither one of them shot anyone either. Such a horrible risk I am. You are beyond ignorant.

Well, asshole, 30,000 people a year in this nation do die by people who have no business having a gun at all. The wingnuts at the gunshow that killed that 8 year old boy were incompetant to own a weopon by the results of their actions. Yet at least one of them was a certified instructor. Somehow we have to get a handle on this, and if we do not restrict the guns themselves, then we had better put some restrictions on keeping people with obvious mental problems from owning guns.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Ahh yes retarded comments by a moron. Tell me you dumb shit, in the 35 years I have owned weapons exactly how many people have I shot? Wait? That would be a big fat zero. But hey you go ahead and make your ignorant claims. Not only have I never shot anyone both of my kids grew up in a house with weapons and neither one of them shot anyone either. Such a horrible risk I am. You are beyond ignorant.

Hold up a sec RGS, you are an exception to the rule.

I mean, think about it for a second stupid........you're a Marine, and therefore, based on your chosen career, you are supposed to be an extremely competent rifleman, because that is what Marines do.

Do you REALLY expect all gun owners to have the same kind of discipline that you do? Are you going to tell me that some punk ass kid on the wrong side of the streets who has been gang-banging all their life, is going to have the same respect for their firearms?

If so........I can recommend some really good oceanfront property in Montana.

Cheap.

 

[editec]

Ahh yes retarded comments by a moron. Tell me you dumb shit, in the 35 years I have owned weapons exactly how many people have I shot? Wait? That would be a big fat zero. But hey you go ahead and make your ignorant claims. Not only have I never shot anyone both of my kids grew up in a house with weapons and neither one of them shot anyone either. Such a horrible risk I am. You are beyond ignorant.

You, sport are specifically one of the people who I think should not be allowed to ever again own a gun.

Now don't to umbrage with me for picking on YOU, because I am one of those people, too.

In your case, I expect eventually you'll off yourself in a pique of despair and that will be a loss to all of us.

In my case?

Well the outcome could actually be much worse, and since I KNOW that, well...I've elected to give my society a break just in case that black dog that sometimes visits me shows up again.

Now, could I pass a psychologist's muster that proves that I am okay pyschologically to own a gun?

Damned right I could.

First of all because generally I'm not threat to anyone, and secondly because even when I am not entirely harmless, I can out-think most psycological tests ESPECIALLY if I know their intented purpose.

And I am in no way shape or form unique in that sense.

Psychology is a weak science at best.

You enjoy your guns there, sport, I am not advocating that this society take them away from you.

Owning them is damned important to your sense of self, I understand that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You, sport are specifically one of the people who I think should not be allowed to ever again own a gun.

Now don't to umbrage with me for picking on YOU, because I am one of those people, too.

In your case, I expect eventually you'll off yourself in a pique of despair and that will be a loss to all of us.

In my case?

Well the outcome could actually be much worse, and since I KNOW that, well...I've elected to give my society a break just in case that black dog that sometimes visits me shows up again.

Now could I pass a phcologists muster that proves that I am okay pyschologically to own a gun?

Damned right I could.

First of all because generally I'm not threat to anyone, and secondly because even when I am not entirely harmless, I can out-think most psycological tests ESPECIALLY if I know their intented purpose.

And I am in no way shape or form unique in that sense.

Psychology is a weak science at best.

Ahh yes the " I think so so it is" argument. You of course also think the Government should take over the entire health care system including all aspects of it and you believe the Government should create insurance issues to bar law abiding citizens from being able to afford weapons. You are a moron and an idiot. Now tell us all how you are some centerist politically too, we need a good belly laugh.

 

[editec]

Ahh yes the " I think so so it is" argument. You of course also think the Government should take over the entire health care system including all aspects of it and you believe the Government should create insurance issues to bar law abiding citizens from being able to afford weapons. You are a moron and an idiot. Now tell us all how you are some centerist politically too, we need a good belly laugh.

You're not having a good day, are you?

ARe you aware that there are days when you actually make a lot of sense and other days when you are nothing but...well look at the above and ask yourself if anything you just wrote had a point other than to inform me that you're having a hard time coping today.

If you have a PRN medication that you can take to help you calm down and stop having those racing thoughts?

You might want to take it now, amigo.

Have a nice day.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Nice dog but he needs a hair cut, his fringe is too long.

Naw, that's just his show coat.

His working coat is kept much shorter.

 

[Lycurgus]

Not worried about criminals showing up at my house.

... and I don't have to worry about him going off and killing my daughter .. or my wife .. or me.

The force is with me.

Our family dogs are loving family members who I have complete faith in will put down any threat they need to. The loyalty of these special family members is unmatched. They trust us unconditionally and they love us unconditionally. I have and always will learn valuable lessons from each one of them!

 

[WillowTree]

IDIOT .. one headless horseman in Canada does not equal more than 30,000 gun deaths a year in the US.

Bigger IDIOT! the point is if someone wants to kill they don't need a frickin gun to do it. Caphiche?
Did Canada have only one murder? that's truly amazing innit?

 

[Lycurgus]

Bigger IDIOT! the point is if someone wants to kill they don't need a frickin gun to do it. Caphiche?
Did Canada have only one murder? that's truly amazing innit?

I can kill and mame more people without the use of a firearm, than I can with the use of one, at any given time. The problem is not the weapon or responsible owners. The bulk of the problem is the system. The regulations and laws we have in place are not used to their fullest, yet we complain. I am a gun owner and gun deaths bother me as much as anyone else. Stopping these type of crimes does not lay in stopping gun sales, that will not stop the desire or the end result, if one has made up their mind to kill. However, other tools can help.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Our family dogs are loving family members who I have complete faith in will put down any threat they need to. The loyalty of these special family members is unmatched. They trust us unconditionally and they love us unconditionally. I have and always will learn valuable lessons from each one of them!

Because my dog looks different that what most people have ever seen, I get stopped by many everyday from people asking questions about him. Thus, I get to tell others everyday that if you leave this life without ever having a personal relationship with a dog, you'll leave this life missing one of its great wonders.There is no relationship between humans and any other creatures like that of humans and dogs.

Of course, I also then get to tell them of how my dog saved my life by getting me help when I dropped dead on my kitchen floor. Had I not had my dog, you and I would not be having this conversation .. and I would still be dead.

One other thing I discovered in all my years with dogs ... dog people are some of the best people in the world. Just reading you speak of your dogs identifies you as good people my brother.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Hold up a sec RGS, you are an exception to the rule.

I mean, think about it for a second stupid........you're a Marine, and therefore, based on your chosen career, you are supposed to be an extremely competent rifleman, because that is what Marines do.

Do you REALLY expect all gun owners to have the same kind of discipline that you do? Are you going to tell me that some punk ass kid on the wrong side of the streets who has been gang-banging all their life, is going to have the same respect for their firearms?

If so........I can recommend some really good oceanfront property in Montana.

Cheap.

I want to publicly apologize for anything I've said to you in anger.