Lost jobs under Bush and gained jobs under Obama are both myths

[asterism]

Lost jobs under Bush and gained jobs under Obama are both myths.

During the Bush years net job gain was over 4.4 million.

During the Obama years total net job loss is over 2.8 million.

The data:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2001 164 -166 171 -484 -207 -219 198 -830 605 -454 -154 -191
2002 -346 737 -261 -51 413 -124 -2 292 597 -294 -487 -95
2003 991(1) 65(1) -48 199 -89 246 -316 75 60 375 440 -13
2004 61(1) 70(1) -89 227 172 322 382 17 -86 245 499 -106
2005 120(1) 140(1) 269 600 355 105 312 408 -33 147 -49 253
2006 398(1) 307(1) 284 20 328 264 -151 423 190 499 220 436
2007 63(1) 33(1) 268 -724 291 157 -172 -216 561 -294 647 -312
2008 135(1) -224(1) -40 30 -248 -200 -246 -312 -111 -278 -710 -744
2009 -1123(1) -514(1) -865 -102 -428 -314 -184 -385 -618 -398 197 -630
2010 551(1) 187(1) 254 430 -29 -261 -101 276 111 -294 -175 297
2011 117(1) 250(1) 291 -190 105 -445
1 : Data affected by changes in population controls.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

 

[daveman]

You hush with your damn facts. Obama saved us all from certain doom. Doom, I say!

Right, USMB lefties? Go go Obama recoveryless recovery!!

 

[SFC Ollie]

I thought the facts on this subject were supposed to be a secret?

 

[boedicca]

Well, you know. Those stats don't tell us how many jobs were SAVED.

 

[xsited1]

One question that always comes up is does a President have an affect on job growth before he assumes office? The simple answer is, "yes." The voting record of Presidential candidates is known and Wall Street will respond either positively or negatively depending on who is in the lead. One recent example is how gun sales skyrocketed before Obama took office because his anti-gun voting record was public record.

 

[Warrior102]

I am so confident in Obama - I am going to rush out and spend $87 to fill up my pickup.

 

[daveman]

I am so confident in Obama - I am going to rush out and spend $87 to fill up my pickup.

If you were really confident in him, you'd wait for him to pay for your gas and mortgage.

 

[rdean]

Lost jobs under Bush and gained jobs under Obama are both myths.

During the Bush years net job gain was over 4.4 million.

During the Obama years total net job loss is over 2.8 million.

The data:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2001 164 -166 171 -484 -207 -219 198 -830 605 -454 -154 -191
2002 -346 737 -261 -51 413 -124 -2 292 597 -294 -487 -95
2003 991(1) 65(1) -48 199 -89 246 -316 75 60 375 440 -13
2004 61(1) 70(1) -89 227 172 322 382 17 -86 245 499 -106
2005 120(1) 140(1) 269 600 355 105 312 408 -33 147 -49 253
2006 398(1) 307(1) 284 20 328 264 -151 423 190 499 220 436
2007 63(1) 33(1) 268 -724 291 157 -172 -216 561 -294 647 -312
2008 135(1) -224(1) -40 30 -248 -200 -246 -312 -111 -278 -710 -744
2009 -1123(1) -514(1) -865 -102 -428 -314 -184 -385 -618 -398 197 -630
2010 551(1) 187(1) 254 430 -29 -261 -101 276 111 -294 -175 297
2011 117(1) 250(1) 291 -190 105 -445
1 : Data affected by changes in population controls.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Obama was sworn in on Jan 20th 2009. Better look at your chart. What does "2009 -1123(1)" under the month of January mean?

In fact, starting back in 2005, things for boy George don't look good. We had trillions in tax cuts. If that was only good for two years, why bother? Wasn't the trillions in tax cuts, the hidden and unpaid cost of two wars and the "drugs for votes" bill, all under a Republican congress, the beginning of both the recession and the deficit?

All I have is a very, VERY, large:

Oops!

Facts and Republican history are polar opposites.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

We're saving so many jobs under O's supreme leadership that we're actually driving unemployment up.

 

[expat_panama]

...starting back in 2005, things for boy George don't look good. We had trillions in tax cuts...

Let's all look at jobs in 2005 and before.

There were two sets of tax cuts. The first in '01 stopped the job losses from the Clinton recession. The second on '03 brought employment to an all time high. Some say Obama's anti-employer crusade in '08 did not hurt employment. That's debatable. What's for sure is that Obama taking office in '09 didn't make any new jobs.

 

[asterism]

Lost jobs under Bush and gained jobs under Obama are both myths.

During the Bush years net job gain was over 4.4 million.

During the Obama years total net job loss is over 2.8 million.

The data:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2001 164 -166 171 -484 -207 -219 198 -830 605 -454 -154 -191
2002 -346 737 -261 -51 413 -124 -2 292 597 -294 -487 -95
2003 991(1) 65(1) -48 199 -89 246 -316 75 60 375 440 -13
2004 61(1) 70(1) -89 227 172 322 382 17 -86 245 499 -106
2005 120(1) 140(1) 269 600 355 105 312 408 -33 147 -49 253
2006 398(1) 307(1) 284 20 328 264 -151 423 190 499 220 436
2007 63(1) 33(1) 268 -724 291 157 -172 -216 561 -294 647 -312
2008 135(1) -224(1) -40 30 -248 -200 -246 -312 -111 -278 -710 -744
2009 -1123(1) -514(1) -865 -102 -428 -314 -184 -385 -618 -398 197 -630
2010 551(1) 187(1) 254 430 -29 -261 -101 276 111 -294 -175 297
2011 117(1) 250(1) 291 -190 105 -445
1 : Data affected by changes in population controls.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Obama was sworn in on Jan 20th 2009. Better look at your chart. What does "2009 -1123(1)" under the month of January mean?

It means in the last month of Bush over 1 million jobs were lost. I included that in the total for Bush.

In fact, starting back in 2005, things for boy George don't look good.

If 2005 is your standard then Obama's term has been disastrous. 2.8 Million jobs LOST!

We had trillions in tax cuts. If that was only good for two years, why bother? Wasn't the trillions in tax cuts, the hidden and unpaid cost of two wars and the "drugs for votes" bill, all under a Republican congress, the beginning of both the recession and the deficit?

Actually, the recession began in January 2007. But notice how you are blaming Bush. He didn't lose jobs. Obama has.

All I have is a very, VERY, large:

Oops!

Facts and Republican history are polar opposites.

The facts are right there. 4.4 million jobs added vs. 2.8 million jobs lost.

 

[asterism]

...starting back in 2005, things for boy George don't look good. We had trillions in tax cuts...

Let's all look at jobs in 2005 and before.

There were two sets of tax cuts. The first in '01 stopped the job losses from the Clinton recession. The second on '03 brought employment to an all time high. Some say Obama's anti-employer crusade in '08 did not hurt employment. That's debatable. What's for sure is that Obama taking office in '09 didn't make any new jobs.

You'll note that the recession started as soon as the big government plans the Democrats ran on in 2006 became a real consideration.

 

[expat_panama]

...the recession started as soon as the big government plans the Democrats ran on in 2006 became a real consideration.

Politicians like to tell everyone that they control the entire economy, but they don't. What we do know is that Democrat control of the House did not continue the job growth that had been going on for half a decade, and that Democrat control of the White house failed to keep even the same level of employment.

 

[asterism]

...the recession started as soon as the big government plans the Democrats ran on in 2006 became a real consideration.

Politicians like to tell everyone that they control the entire economy, but they don't. What we do know is that Democrat control of the House did not continue the job growth that had been going on for half a decade, and that Democrat control of the White house failed to keep even the same level of employment.

I agree. I certainly don't think the Republicans can fix this with another government program or some mucking with the tax code (unless we're talking about the FairTax). However, they can stop the slide and might foster a growth environment if they get out of the way enough.

 

[expat_panama]

...they can stop the slide and might foster a growth environment if they get out of the way enough.

People are good and what people do is they create governments and markets. People screw up when they confuse the two by say, selling out the government or by letting governments do the buying and selling.

You and I know this but, explaining this to confused, people-hating leftists is difficult.

 

[pinqy]

Lost jobs under Bush and gained jobs under Obama are both myths.

During the Bush years net job gain was over 4.4 million.

During the Obama years total net job loss is over 2.8 million.

The data:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2001 164 -166 171 -484 -207 -219 198 -830 605 -454 -154 -191
2002 -346 737 -261 -51 413 -124 -2 292 597 -294 -487 -95
2003 991(1) 65(1) -48 199 -89 246 -316 75 60 375 440 -13
2004 61(1) 70(1) -89 227 172 322 382 17 -86 245 499 -106
2005 120(1) 140(1) 269 600 355 105 312 408 -33 147 -49 253
2006 398(1) 307(1) 284 20 328 264 -151 423 190 499 220 436
2007 63(1) 33(1) 268 -724 291 157 -172 -216 561 -294 647 -312
2008 135(1) -224(1) -40 30 -248 -200 -246 -312 -111 -278 -710 -744
2009 -1123(1) -514(1) -865 -102 -428 -314 -184 -385 -618 -398 197 -630
2010 551(1) 187(1) 254 430 -29 -261 -101 276 111 -294 -175 297
2011 117(1) 250(1) 291 -190 105 -445
1 : Data affected by changes in population controls.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

To nitpick, those are employment changes, not jobs. The official numbers for net jobs change comes from the Current Employment Statistics Survey (CES). It is a monthly sample of about 440,000 establishments who contribute to Unemployment Insurance. Because of this, it does not count agriculture, the self employed, people who work in others' houses, or unpaid family workers and it counts jobs, not people, so that if a person holds 3 jobs, they're counted 3 times. Those changes are
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2001 -16 61 -30 -281 -44 -128 -125 -160 -244 -325 -292 -178
2002 -132 -147 -24 -85 -7 45 -97 -16 -55 126 8 -156
2003 83 -158 -212 -49 -6 -2 25 -42 103 203 18 124
2004 150 43 338 250 310 81 47 121 160 351 64 132
2005 136 240 142 360 169 246 369 195 63 84 334 158
2006 281 317 287 182 11 80 202 185 156 -8 205 180
2007 203 88 218 79 141 67 -49 -26 69 91 127 84
2008 13 -83 -72 -185 -233 -178 -231 -267 -434 -509 -802 -619
2009 -820 -726 -796 -660 -386 -502 -300 -231 -236 -221 -55 -130
2010 -39 -35 192 277 458 -192 -49 -59 -29 171 93 152
2011 68 235 194 217 25(P) 18(P)
P : preliminary

What you posted are the Employment changes, from the Current Population Survey. It measures total employment, including agriculture, the self employed etc. The downside is the sample is only 60,000 households a month. So more details, but a little less precision.

So while your numbers are perfectly correct, you're comparing it to claims of "jobs created/jobs lost" which is a completely different survey with different methodology. They're not comparable.

 

[asterism]

Lost jobs under Bush and gained jobs under Obama are both myths.

During the Bush years net job gain was over 4.4 million.

During the Obama years total net job loss is over 2.8 million.

The data:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2001 164 -166 171 -484 -207 -219 198 -830 605 -454 -154 -191
2002 -346 737 -261 -51 413 -124 -2 292 597 -294 -487 -95
2003 991(1) 65(1) -48 199 -89 246 -316 75 60 375 440 -13
2004 61(1) 70(1) -89 227 172 322 382 17 -86 245 499 -106
2005 120(1) 140(1) 269 600 355 105 312 408 -33 147 -49 253
2006 398(1) 307(1) 284 20 328 264 -151 423 190 499 220 436
2007 63(1) 33(1) 268 -724 291 157 -172 -216 561 -294 647 -312
2008 135(1) -224(1) -40 30 -248 -200 -246 -312 -111 -278 -710 -744
2009 -1123(1) -514(1) -865 -102 -428 -314 -184 -385 -618 -398 197 -630
2010 551(1) 187(1) 254 430 -29 -261 -101 276 111 -294 -175 297
2011 117(1) 250(1) 291 -190 105 -445
1 : Data affected by changes in population controls.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

To nitpick, those are employment changes, not jobs.

I welcome the nitpicking. These are month by month changes in total employment. Therefore it shows the net gain or loss over a period of time. It is from the Current Population Survey.

The official numbers for net jobs change comes from the Current Employment Statistics Survey (CES). It is a monthly sample of about 440,000 establishments who contribute to Unemployment Insurance. Because of this, it does not count agriculture, the self employed, people who work in others' houses, or unpaid family workers and it counts jobs, not people, so that if a person holds 3 jobs, they're counted 3 times.

True. That's why I don't think the CES is accurate. The Population Survey is a much better indicator in my opinion.

Those changes are
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
2001 -16 61 -30 -281 -44 -128 -125 -160 -244 -325 -292 -178
2002 -132 -147 -24 -85 -7 45 -97 -16 -55 126 8 -156
2003 83 -158 -212 -49 -6 -2 25 -42 103 203 18 124
2004 150 43 338 250 310 81 47 121 160 351 64 132
2005 136 240 142 360 169 246 369 195 63 84 334 158
2006 281 317 287 182 11 80 202 185 156 -8 205 180
2007 203 88 218 79 141 67 -49 -26 69 91 127 84
2008 13 -83 -72 -185 -233 -178 -231 -267 -434 -509 -802 -619
2009 -820 -726 -796 -660 -386 -502 -300 -231 -236 -221 -55 -130
2010 -39 -35 192 277 458 -192 -49 -59 -29 171 93 152
2011 68 235 194 217 25(P) 18(P)
P : preliminary

What you posted are the Employment changes, from the Current Population Survey. It measures total employment, including agriculture, the self employed etc. The downside is the sample is only 60,000 households a month. So more details, but a little less precision.

I disagree. More skewed data does not make it any more precise.

So while your numbers are perfectly correct, you're comparing it to claims of "jobs created/jobs lost" which is a completely different survey with different methodology. They're not comparable.

Comparing Population Survey job changes month by month for each President is valid. However if you prefer to use the Establishment Survey (which as you said leaves out agriculture and self-employed but also double counts part time workers) then the difference is even more stark:

Bush: net gain of just under 1.1 Million jobs.
Obama: net loss of over 2.5 Million jobs.