"Lone Survivor" a celebration of courage..maybe so

[whitehall]

I read the freaking book "Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell. Luttrell is a symbol of the courage and dedication of the Navy SEAL but the book is a illustration of what is wrong with the modern SEAL concept. First of all the SEAL basic training is logically the evolution of the older UDT (underwater demolition team) concept. SEAL candidates are still rated on their ability to resist hypothermia and to paddle a rubber boat while almost unconscious. Again I am basing my opinion on Luttrell's book. Upon graduation and on patrol in Afghanistan Luttrell makes the observation "what are SEALs doing at 10,000 feet", indeed, what are Navy SEALS doing in the mountains of Afghanistan at 10,000 feet? Luttrell also indicates the elitist attitude of SEALS claiming that they refuse to be housed with any other members of the US Military stating lamely "SEALS might blurt out secrets in their sleep". Did he really believe such crap? Anyway Luttrell's SEAL team found itself trailing a group of Taliband in the Afghan mountains and underestimated the knowledge of their enemy. The SEAL team became surrounded by the Afghans and were killed except for Luttrell. The SEAL team commander at H.Q. apparently disregarded any plan of attack and jumped on a helicopter (SEALS were apparently able to commander helicopters at will) and landed right in front of a Taliband group which sent a RPG right through the helicopter killing the rescue team. Luttrell survived and was taken in by an Afghan village and ultimately rescued by Army Rangers.

 

[whitehall]

If you ever served in the Military you have the right to criticize the modern craziness of the SEAL's and if you never served in the Military you have just as much right to criticize and/or celebrate Military concepts. As a former Marine I feel free to criticize the WW2 Marine Raiders as nothing but a publicity stunt.

 

[deltex1]

They should have eliminated the goat herders..or retreated back to base after being compromised. Let a drone finish the job. Some civilians would have died...but war is hell.

 

[whitehall]

Let's face it, the Afghan mission is so screwed up that it is impossible to figure out why Navy SEALS were on patrol in the mountains. An educated guess is that the SEALS have the Military fat assed generals bluffed into thinking that they are some sort of super agents that they can use for impossible missions. The fact is that SEALS wash out smart skilled leaders because they can't endure the hypothermia training. It's crazy but it's acceptable if the SEAL mission is restricted to scenarios that include hypothermia which they don't. SEALS are as well trained as Marine Recon or Army Rangers and there is no shortage of missions for Rangers or Marines. The point is that the SEALS were engaged in an operation that they weren't trained specifically for. They got lost in the clouds and they were surrounded by the people they were supposed to recon. They underestimated the enemy and they were wiped out. A rescue mission was poorly planned by poor leadership and it was wiped out.

 

[Libertarianman]

I read some of that book....hopefully see the movie, but, yes, I agree. Not enough training and, also, why the fuck are we over there?

 

[whitehall]

I read some of that book....hopefully see the movie, but, yes, I agree. Not enough training and, also, why the fuck are we over there?

The American Military is the best trained fighting force on the planet. The SEALS are the evolution of the old Navy UDT (underwater demolition team) and their mission was (and is) so specialized that they are trained to endure hypothermia and paddling a rubber boat around until they are unconscious and beyond. The fortunate thing for SEALS is that they have plenty of funding and the SEAL operation is so limited that they can wash out qualified valuable personnel. SEALS have special qualifications but they are not especially trained beyond that. The hype pretends that SEALS are super snipers and experts on recon missions but it is just hype. Army Rangers are as well or better trained and Marine Recon people are the best around. The SEAL mission is fine when restricted to underwater recon but they are obviously outclassed by the enemy they underestimate when they are forced into a mission in the mountains.

 

[Libertarianman]

Obviously they need more training or more specific training in combats NS lose the emphasis on water

 

[Libertarianman]

We are in the Middle East...water is not an issue

 

[Godboy]

I read some of that book....hopefully see the movie, but, yes, I agree. Not enough training and, also, why the fuck are we over there?

The American Military is the best trained fighting force on the planet. The SEALS are the evolution of the old Navy UDT (underwater demolition team) and their mission was (and is) so specialized that they are trained to endure hypothermia and paddling a rubber boat around until they are unconscious and beyond. The fortunate thing for SEALS is that they have plenty of funding and the SEAL operation is so limited that they can wash out qualified valuable personnel. SEALS have special qualifications but they are not especially trained beyond that. The hype pretends that SEALS are super snipers and experts on recon missions but it is just hype. Army Rangers are as well or better trained and Marine Recon people are the best around. The SEAL mission is fine when restricted to underwater recon but they are obviously outclassed by the enemy they underestimate when they are forced into a mission in the mountains.

Are you fucking high? Neither one of those groups comes anywhere close to the level of training of a Navy SEAL, and they sure as fuck don't have the same equipment. Stop talking now.

 

[Politico]

A royal screw up is no reason for celebration.

 

[whitehall]

I read some of that book....hopefully see the movie, but, yes, I agree. Not enough training and, also, why the fuck are we over there?

The American Military is the best trained fighting force on the planet. The SEALS are the evolution of the old Navy UDT (underwater demolition team) and their mission was (and is) so specialized that they are trained to endure hypothermia and paddling a rubber boat around until they are unconscious and beyond. The fortunate thing for SEALS is that they have plenty of funding and the SEAL operation is so limited that they can wash out qualified valuable personnel. SEALS have special qualifications but they are not especially trained beyond that. The hype pretends that SEALS are super snipers and experts on recon missions but it is just hype. Army Rangers are as well or better trained and Marine Recon people are the best around. The SEAL mission is fine when restricted to underwater recon but they are obviously outclassed by the enemy they underestimate when they are forced into a mission in the mountains.

Are you fucking high? Neither one of those groups comes anywhere close to the level of training of a Navy SEAL, and they sure as fuck don't have the same equipment. Stop talking now.

Did you read the book? The SEAL mission is centered around enduring hypothermia and learning to paddle a rubber boat while unconscious. They wash out qualified smart experienced people because the basic training is specific to combat in cold water. As a matter of fact the SEAL program has less qualified people than Army Rangers or Marine Recon because they have to train people who can't do much more than endure hypothermia. They make due and train the personnel they have and they showed how far out of their element they were when they got lost in the mountain screwed up the mission that the made the movie about.

 

[Politico]

Are you trying to start a pissing match?

 

[whitehall]

Are you trying to start a pissing match?

Piss if you want to but you would be better off arguing your point. In 1954 Tx. A&M coach Paul "Bear" Bryant decided to toughen up his football team with a 10 day ordeal. He washed out good players and hurt the rest. He was rewarded with a single win the next season. SEALS wash out otherwise qualified people and hurt the rest in a brutal basic training. It's possible that Luttrell even endured brain damage when he passed out and was revived. At any rate the SEALS are stuck with a couple of survivors who can endure training while unconscious and are able to withstand dangerous levels of hypothermia and then they must train these people. Army Rangers have more realistic training as do Marine Recon and there is no reason in the world that SEALS should be on patrol in the mountains at 10,000 feet.

 

[Caroljo]

They should have eliminated the goat herders..or retreated back to base after being compromised. Let a drone finish the job. Some civilians would have died...but war is hell.

I think it was Luttrell that made a comment at the time they came across the herders....something about how the "liberal" media would respond to them killing them. Pretty sad that they feel they have to worry about what the liberals would say of them for making sure of their safety.

 

[Caroljo]

The American Military is the best trained fighting force on the planet. The SEALS are the evolution of the old Navy UDT (underwater demolition team) and their mission was (and is) so specialized that they are trained to endure hypothermia and paddling a rubber boat around until they are unconscious and beyond. The fortunate thing for SEALS is that they have plenty of funding and the SEAL operation is so limited that they can wash out qualified valuable personnel. SEALS have special qualifications but they are not especially trained beyond that. The hype pretends that SEALS are super snipers and experts on recon missions but it is just hype. Army Rangers are as well or better trained and Marine Recon people are the best around. The SEAL mission is fine when restricted to underwater recon but they are obviously outclassed by the enemy they underestimate when they are forced into a mission in the mountains.

Are you fucking high? Neither one of those groups comes anywhere close to the level of training of a Navy SEAL, and they sure as fuck don't have the same equipment. Stop talking now.

Did you read the book? The SEAL mission is centered around enduring hypothermia and learning to paddle a rubber boat while unconscious. They wash out qualified smart experienced people because the basic training is specific to combat in cold water. As a matter of fact the SEAL program has less qualified people than Army Rangers or Marine Recon because they have to train people who can't do much more than endure hypothermia. They make due and train the personnel they have and they showed how far out of their element they were when they got lost in the mountain screwed up the mission that the made the movie about.

I read the book too, my son gave it to me. And I was in awe of the training they had to go through! But yes, they were trained most of the time in water. They did things that no normal human could endure. I also wondered why they were sent on a mission in the mountains of Afghanistan. I loved the movie...although the book was much better.

My son is right now in the mountains of Afghanistan...he's in Army Psy Ops. Right now he can't go on any missions for a while because he put a drill bit through his thumb the other day building something at their camp......oh darn

 

[whitehall]

I don't intend to undermine Luttrell's courage and endurance but it's fair to consider the SEAL mission. Luttrell was rescued by Army Rangers. That should tell you something. At one point in his book he admits the elitist mentality of the SEALS. He claims that SEALS refuse to be billeted with other branches of the Military because they might inadvertently give away secrets in their sleep. The fact that Luttrell really believed this crap is indicative of the dangerously elitist hype that can destroy a Military unit. It's quite logical that Luttrell's unit critically underestimated the enemy they were following and they were surprised when they were driven into a defensive position and wiped out. It's possible that the elitist mentality of the leadership failed to understand the skill of the enemy and the rescue attempt was wiped out before they had a chance. The other concept is unique to SEALS where their mission was secret and other branches of the Military were apparently not aware of their patrols. All in all, the book that the movie is based on is an account of a disaster that happened because of Military elitism and hype and the overall mess of the Afghanistan mission. It's also an account of one SEAL's personal courage and endurance.

 

[whitehall]

I watched the movie "Captain Phillips" the other night and if it is accurate (and I have no reason to think it isn't) it is the epitome of the SEAL mission and it was executed perfectly. The SEALS were in their element and the leadership was exactly right. Navy SEALS working within the Navy mission parameters is the way the system was supposed to work. When SEAL elitism tangles with Army missions at 10,000 feet in the mountains of Afghanistan and when SEAL leadership forgets the mission and runs it's own rescue without a plan, it is a recipe for disaster and apparently a great plot for a movie.

 

[smith77]

SEALs have training beyond BUDs. So this argument that they are only trained for a water enviornment disregards the training beyond BUDs. And I guess no other branch of the military had a mission failure. Except for that Black Hawk Down thing the Army had.

 

[Godboy]

I read some of that book....hopefully see the movie, but, yes, I agree. Not enough training and, also, why the fuck are we over there?

The American Military is the best trained fighting force on the planet. The SEALS are the evolution of the old Navy UDT (underwater demolition team) and their mission was (and is) so specialized that they are trained to endure hypothermia and paddling a rubber boat around until they are unconscious and beyond. The fortunate thing for SEALS is that they have plenty of funding and the SEAL operation is so limited that they can wash out qualified valuable personnel. SEALS have special qualifications but they are not especially trained beyond that. The hype pretends that SEALS are super snipers and experts on recon missions but it is just hype. Army Rangers are as well or better trained and Marine Recon people are the best around. The SEAL mission is fine when restricted to underwater recon but they are obviously outclassed by the enemy they underestimate when they are forced into a mission in the mountains.

Are you fucking high? Neither one of those groups comes anywhere close to the level of training of a Navy SEAL, and they sure as fuck don't have the same equipment. Stop talking now.

Did you read the book? The SEAL mission is centered around enduring hypothermia and learning to paddle a rubber boat while unconscious. They wash out qualified smart experienced people because the basic training is specific to combat in cold water. As a matter of fact the SEAL program has less qualified people than Army Rangers or Marine Recon because they have to train people who can't do much more than endure hypothermia. They make due and train the personnel they have and they showed how far out of their element they were when they got lost in the mountain screwed up the mission that the made the movie about.

^ Dumbest shit I've ever heard.