Living Wage???

Discussion in 'Economy' started by PoliticalChic, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,927
    Thanks Received:
    15,700
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +25,063
    Politicians with the usual desire to look as though they know what they are doing, are eager to impress entry-level workers...even if the bill would be counterproductive in terms of creating jobs....

    1. After weeks of sniping between labor advocates and business leaders, a City Council committee will hold a hearing Tuesday on a controversial bill to boost salaries for workers.

    2. The “living wage” bill, as it is called, would force businesses that get tax breaks from the city to pay workers $10 an hour, plus benefits — up from the federal minimum hourly wage of $7.25.

    3. The measure has strong support from labor, but has been denounced by business leaders and Mayor Bloomberg, who branded it a “job killer
    City Council to hold hearing on controversial living wage bill - NY Daily News

    But, this from the NYObserver:

    4. The Bloomberg administration fears that the plan would slow development in the city, but backers are pointing to cities where they say the experiment has succeeded: San Francisco and Los Angeles.

    5. Ken Jacobs, the chair of the University of California at Berkeley Labor Center recently conducted a study about San Francisco’s experience with living wage, and he found that:


    The verdict is clear: labor standards policies of the kind San Francisco put in place improve workers’ income, productivity and health, reduce turnover and decrease job vacancies; they have not reduced the number of jobs.
    San Francisco Pushes New York City Council on Living Wage | The New York Observer


    Then, again:
    "Using government data from January 1979 to December 2004, the effect of minimum wage increases on retail and small business employment is estimated. Specifically, a 10 percent increase in the minimum wage is associated with a 0.9 to 1.1 percent decline in retail employment and a 0.8 to 1.2 percent reduction in small business employment.

    These employment effects grow even larger for the low-skilled employees most affected by minimum wage increases. A 10 percent increase in the minimum wage is associated with a 2.7 to 4.3 percent decline in teen employment in the retail sector, a 5 percent decline in average retail hours worked by all teenagers, and a 2.8 percent decline in retail hours worked by teenagers who remain employed in retail jobs.

    These results increase in magnitude when focusing on the effect on small businesses. A 10 percent increase in the minimum wage is associated with a 4.6 to 9.0 percent decline in teenage employment in small businesses and a 4.8 to 8.8 percent reduction in hours worked by teens in the retail sector."
    The Effect of Minimum Wage Increases on Retail and Small Business Employment | EPI Study

    Think it might be political rather than economic?

    But, isn't everything....
     
  2. martybegan
    Offline

    martybegan Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    29,495
    Thanks Received:
    4,017
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +11,046
    Shouldn't this only apply to future tax breaks? Wouldn't implementing this now and enforcing to deals already made count as ex post facto law?

    What happens when the companies look at the balance sheet and decide either to forgo the tax breaks, (thus only helping the cities bottom line, not the workers) or leave the area entirely? (thus removing the jobs, AND any tax income, both corporate and sales). Companies could just move the store to Jersey, Westchester, or the Island, and still be in the area.
     
  3. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,927
    Thanks Received:
    15,700
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +25,063
    "leave the area entirely? (thus removing the jobs...."
    Only leaving the area removes jobs?

    So....does this imply that you care not to hazard a guess as to whether or not mandating higher wages for entry level jobs is a positive or negative factor in job creation?
     
  4. Brutus
    Offline

    Brutus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,432
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +64



    It seems so obvious doesn't it!! The higher the wage or price the more expensive it is, and so the less of it people can afford. This is why for example a Ford sells more than a Rolls Royce or why the higher the wage the fewer people employers can afford to employ.

    A liberal will lack the IQ to understand even that so conservatives are always in the role of kindergarten teacher

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  5. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
    Advocates of increasing minimum wage or 'living wages" tend to pretend that there are numerous people out in the world trying to support a family on the minimum wage.

    In reality, slightly more than 2% of employed people work at minimum wage. Many are teenagers working for fun money. Most are not people trying to raise a family.

    It's a feel-good tactic to pretend that somehow the government is helping the working poor, when it really has no effect on adults with a family, other than to increase their costs of goods and services.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  6. martybegan
    Offline

    martybegan Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    29,495
    Thanks Received:
    4,017
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +11,046
    If the company chooses to remain, it would probably have an effect on how many people they employ. The increase in cost of buisness has to come from somewhere, and the choices are overall salaries, material costs, increased prices, lower profit.
     
  7. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
    Offline

    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    17,416
    Thanks Received:
    2,855
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    America's Home Town
    Ratings:
    +2,863
    While emotionally a $10.00 minimum "living" wage requirement sounds and feels like the right thing to do for people, intellectually it is the wrong thing to do for people as it has been proven to reduce the total jobs in the job market.

    Its not some theory or some "political" position to hold. There are actual numbers to back up the statement that a mandatory raise of 10% (which is less than a dollar right now) will cause ~1% decrease in the total available jobs in the retail and service industries.

    Links? Look at the first post I quoted people the links are there ;)
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,927
    Thanks Received:
    15,700
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +25,063
    Your post, and the two above yours, make the point which seems pellucidly intuitive.

    But, what does our agreement say about the 'studies' that academics do to prove all sorts of Left-wing talking points?
     
  9. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
    That P.T. Barnum was right?

    I'm not entirely sure when it happened, I just know that it did happen.
    At some point in the not too distant past a large portion of the public decided that it was easier to delegate personal choice to 536 people, rather than be adult enough to care for themselves and their fellow community.
    536 people.
    435 representatives.
    100 senators.
    1 president.

    But wait, there are 9 people that will supposedly protect us from the 536 that may make a bad decision.
    9 supreme court justices.

    The 545 have failed to fulfill their oaths to the constitution and to us.
    They do not have the authority to determine what one man must pay another for services rendered.
     
  10. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,927
    Thanks Received:
    15,700
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +25,063
    Actually...the essence of the Constitution is that each branch is responsible to try the constitutionality of laws.
    That is why the courts give weight to the assumption that a law is constitutional unless there is a an unconstitutional element on which they can hang a decison. The President should make such a determination as well when he signs a bill.

    The problem is that government is made of men, with the human foibles that veers toward corruption.
    They have all ignored the checks and balances to do what benefits them.
    Careers over country.


    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."
    Alexander Tyler 1787
    {There is some question as to the authenticity of the attribution. But not the premise}



    Mounty....are we being too serious today, ...what with everyone else so loggy from turkey-overdose?
     

Share This Page