Live Green, Go Yellow, E85 Ethanol

[007]

i figured that it had something to do with compression and air/fuel mix.

as far as the higher octane output, what will ethanol do for vehicles that run on plain 87 octane, which is pretty much 99% of the vehicles out there? granted, our Caddy takes 91 octane, though you can use a lower grade in a pinch (no other grade available), but the engine will knock a bit.

won't putting a higher-than-recommended octane level in the car potentially damage the engine?

No it won't. What the octane level in gasoline is really is it's resistance to detonation. Lower octane fuels will detonate at lower temperatures than higher octane fuels. How they determine that is, they compress the fuel until the heat of the compression detonates it. The higher the compression and temp it takes, the higher octane rating the fuel has. That knocking sound you hear when you put a lower octane fuel in your caddy is the fuel actually detonating on the outer edges of your combustion chamber first, and then that meeting the burning fuel detonated by your spark plug. They collide in your combustion chamber. This is bad. It can damage the outer edge of your piston, and that can put pressure on your upper compression ring lands, or grooves, which in turn will crack your rings, and then you can have all sorts of fun, expensive things happen to your engine from that. So, it's usually OK to burn a higher octane fuel, but never really good to burn a lower octane.

Unless engine mods to switch the engine over, are fairly inexpensive, I fail to see most of America changing vehicles that quickly.

I would think that the only mods neccessary to a fuel injected auto would be to reflash the ECM with new fuel and ignition maps. Ten minutes. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think by much.

I look at it this way. We were in a similar situation with fuel prices 20 years ago. Manufacturers produced cars to meet fuel efficiency demands of consumers. Then things got better, fuel was cheap again, and people began to drive cars with bigger engines again. It just seems like history is repeating itself, so I plan to just wait it out, adjust my fuel budget as needed, and not panic. Besides, I have seen more just-purchased trucks on the road recently, than I have in the past 3 years. I saw 4 on the way home from work today. People must not be that panicked about fuel prices going up. We just got our '92 Seville in November, complete with a 4.9l v8. Not the greatest in fuel efficiency (avg 22 mpg), but we still get about a week's worth. Plus the price, the mileage, and the fact it is mint condition (spare a few minor dents/scratches) and fully loaded were a big factor.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Ahh, ethanol. The boondoggle that wouldn't die. Want to have fun sometime? Find an ethanol article, no matter how positive, and hit CTRL+F and type in "subsidy". You won't be disappointed.

If ethanol was a superior motor fuel that saved resources, it would be cheaper than gasoline. It's not, even after all the subsidies to the poor farmers at Archer Daniels Midland. I've heard the "not enough land in all of america" argument before, and I've also heard people argue that the farming/distilling process itself uses more gallons of petrol than you get back in alcohol. You've got artificial fertilizers, tractors, etc...all use petroleum.

There's plenty of oil in the tar sands of Canada. Enough to rival the biggest oilfields of Arabia or Russia. They're just somewhat more expensive. Let the market work, and the most efficient solution will be found. But whatever it is, it won't be ethanol, unless there's a big surprise breakthrough. This advertising blitz by GM is for one reason only--public relations.

 

[007]

Ahh, ethanol. The boondoggle that wouldn't die. Want to have fun sometime? Find an ethanol article, no matter how positive, and hit CTRL+F and type in "subsidy". You won't be disappointed.

If ethanol was a superior motor fuel that saved resources, it would be cheaper than gasoline. It's not, even after all the subsidies to the poor farmers at Archer Daniels Midland. I've heard the "not enough land in all of america" argument before, and I've also heard people argue that the farming/distilling process itself uses more gallons of petrol than you get back in alcohol. You've got artificial fertilizers, tractors, etc...all use petroleum.

There's plenty of oil in the tar sands of Canada. Enough to rival the biggest oilfields of Arabia or Russia. They're just somewhat more expensive. Let the market work, and the most efficient solution will be found. But whatever it is, it won't be ethanol, unless there's a big surprise breakthrough. This advertising blitz by GM is for one reason only--public relations.

I was sure you were going to say "money".

Everybody knows GM is in trouble. Maybe they think this will bail the company out.

I'm sure thinking twice about ethanol. Maybe it could take some of the pressure off of our dependence on foriegn oil, but I'm pretty sure it won't be the one and only save our ass resource.

 

[Mr.Conley]

I was sure you were going to say "money".

Everybody knows GM is in trouble. Maybe they think this will bail the company out.

I'm sure thinking twice about ethanol. Maybe it could take some of the pressure off of our dependence on foriegn oil, but I'm pretty sure it won't be the one and only save our ass resource.

I'd bet GM knows ethanol isn't the way, they just want some good publicity.

I don't think this will bail GM out. Several million more people are not going to start buying GM cars because a few models can use E85. I really don't know how they are going to extricate themselves from this mess.

Glad to hear your rethinking ethanol. As far as I can tell, its just politicians pandering for the rural vote. Ultimately, I feel ethanol will be part of the solution, but it will be a small part that includes, nuclear, hydro-power, a lot of coal, rising wind, solar, and hopefully, eventually fusion (In 50 years, mind you).

The only way we're going to really get out of the mess we're in is to conserve and increase energy efficancy. I've convinced my parents to buy a 55MPG Prius instead of a 15MPG SUV, suprisingly, they actually like it better. Its the little things like this that will really make the difference. One of the things that amazes me is that, for a population of 300 million, we have 225 million cars. That almost a 1:1 ratio! I don't think that every man, woman, a child needs their own car. 60% of our oil supply goes to fueling our cars, if everyone realized that a 4 person family doesn't need 5 cars rather 1 or possibly 2, we could seriously reduce our oil dependency.

Another conserving measure is to start using trains more. Trains are so much more effiecent than cars and planes, its almost disgusting. If we moved shipping and intercity transportation onto the rails, we'd consearve a bundle.

 

[dmp]

The amount of air that is inducted during each revolution of the crankshaft is fixed (not exactly, but good enough for this discussion). The amount of fuel that needs to be injected for stoichiometric combustion is 1/14.7th this fixed amount for gasoline and 1/11th this fixed amount for ethanol.

Crankshaft????

you just making up words now??

 

[misterblu]

Crankshaft????

you just making up words now??

Your '8 has a 'crankshaft' as well. You just choose to call it an 'eccentric shaft' because you think it makes you cool. :

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/re101/eshaft.php