Literary Allusion

[tigerbob]

Oh bugger.

The British Poet Laureate, Andrew Motion, recently contended that students of English Literature are struggling because so many do not understand biblical references that would have been common knowledge 50 years ago.

The BBC is testing this hypothesis with 10 questions. I thought I woud be pretty good at this becausae I really love a lot of what are regarded as great books. However, I got only 5 out of 10, and more than one of those was an educated guess.

Don't cheat to make yourself look smarter (nor even to make me look dumber...)

BBC - Today

 

[RetiredGySgt]

6 of 10. Which surprises me because I have never read the whole Bible just parts and pieces. I use the extensive research material in the back of my Bible to find things I need.

 

[jillian]

I only got 6 of 10

 

[del]

6 of 10 with 2 semi-educated guesses.

 

[tigerbob]

There's a pattern emerging...

 

[Anguille]

4-7: By the skin of your teeth

I think the problem lies with the literary texts being classics as well. Not many Biblical references made in contemporary writing.

 

[Anguille]

There's a pattern emerging...

Are you saying they copied over each other's shoulders?

 

[tigerbob]

There's a pattern emerging...

Are you saying they copied over each other's shoulders?

No. Saying everyone got more than me.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There's a pattern emerging...

Are you saying they copied over each other's shoulders?

No. Saying everyone got more than me.

Only one more.

 

[catzmeow]

8 out of 10 for me, but I'm surprised I didn't do better, frankly, after being a Sunday School teacher and English major.

This is a quandary for me. I've not taught my kids about the bible because I think it is full of barbarism and atrocities, but it is liberally referenced in many great literary works. Is an understanding of these archaic Biblical stories NECESSARY in today's society? Or, is it simply another phase of intellectual evolution? For instance, the founding fathers referenced classic greek and roman scholars as much or more than they referenced the Bible. Which is more important? Knowing mundane details about the Old Testament, or having read Aristotle's "Rhetoric"?

 

[tigerbob]

Are you saying they copied over each other's shoulders?

No. Saying everyone got more than me.

Only one more.

I know, I'm just kidding.

I have never really 'read' the bible. Listen to it being read in church every now and again. So I shouldn't really be surprised that I got as many wrong as right. My Catholic wife got the same as me though, which pleases me no end!

 

[tigerbob]

8 out of 10 for me, but I'm surprised I didn't do better, frankly, after being a Sunday School teacher and English major.

This is a quandary for me. I've not taught my kids about the bible because I think it is full of barbarism and atrocities, but it is liberally referenced in many great literary works. Is an understanding of these archaic Biblical stories NECESSARY in today's society? Or, is it simply another phase of intellectual evolution? For instance, the founding fathers referenced classic greek and roman scholars as much or more than they referenced the Bible. Which is more important? Knowing mundane details about the Old Testament, or having read Aristotle's "Rhetoric"?

I would say that in both the case of the Bible and ancient Greek / Roman philosophy, it is important only if one has a desire to have a thorough understanding of the meaning that is sometimes hiding behind the written word. People writing 200 years ago had different influences and mores, so a deeper understanding of where those differences emanate from provides greater context for understanding their views.

Really interesting point, Catz.

 

[editec]

Oh bugger.

The British Poet Laureate, Andrew Motion, recently contended that students of English Literature are struggling because so many do not understand biblical references that would have been common knowledge 50 years ago.

The BBC is testing this hypothesis with 10 questions. I thought I woud be pretty good at this becausae I really love a lot of what are regarded as great books. However, I got only 5 out of 10, and more than one of those was an educated guess.

Don't cheat to make yourself look smarter (nor even to make me look dumber...)

BBC - Today

He is absolutely 100% spot on correct about that.

What's more they don't know their shakespeare, don't know fairy tales or mother goose, don't recognize references to adages which previous generations knew, too.

TV is, I think at the root of this problem.

As TV got better reading became an option for people who might have, pre-TV, read a whole lot more.

Then as my generation became more TV oriented and read less, our children were exposed to a whole lot less of what were once commonly understood literary and folk wisdom references.

NOW, that I've spouted off, I'll take this test to see how deficient I am, too.

FYI update...I failed.

While I recognized each reference as Biblical I could not identify which book they came from.

Oh, and I really did think that Adam and Eve moved to the land East of Eden, too.

 

[catzmeow]

He is absolutely 100% spot on correct about that.

What's more they don't know their shakespeare, don't know fairy tales or mother goose, don't recognize references to adages which previous generations knew, too.

TV is, I think at the root of this problem.

As TV got better reading became an option for people who might have, pre-TV read a whole lot more.

Then as my generation became more TV oriented and read less, our children were exposed to a whole lot less of what were once commonly understood literary and folk wisdom references.

NOW, that I've spouted off, I'll take this test to see how deficient I am, too.

Sadly, if I hadn't been an English major in college, I'd have done better with Biblical allusions than Shakespearean ones. Although, I think literacy rates are higher now than at any time in our history as a nation.

It is tempting, though, to play the "hell in a handbasket" game. However, having grown up with the pernicious virus of fundamentalism in my family, I think I prefer television to being steeped in archaic nonsense.

 

[editec]

My family was basically non-religious.

I was actually the most religious in my family, to be honest.

The church ladies lured me into their Jesus cult with a piping hot full menu breakfast every Sunday.

Since I was up Sunday mornings anyway, and since nobody was up to feed me, and since the Church I attended was only a few doors from my house, I religiously went to Sunday school (and later church) because they fed me, and because they played BACH on a screaming honest to GOD massive pipe organ.

It was the 1950s.

There was nothing good on TV, anyway.

 

[catzmeow]

True. Lost in Space didn't come on until the 60s, did it?

 

[del]

"davey, if god loves us, why don't we have any knees?"

this was the only thing on tv that was remotely watchable on sunday mornings when i was a kid. by remotely watchable, i mean animated.​

 

[catzmeow]

this was the only thing on tv that was remotely watchable on sunday mornings when i was a kid. by remotely watchable, i mean animated.[/CENTER]

Star Trek was a huge favorite at our house since it aired at 5 p.m., right before my mom served dinner.

 

[del]

this was the only thing on tv that was remotely watchable on sunday mornings when i was a kid. by remotely watchable, i mean animated.[/CENTER]

Star Trek was a huge favorite at our house since it aired at 5 p.m., right before my mom served dinner.

i was in jr high when star trek debuted on network tv.

 

[Anguille]

We weren't allowed much tv. We actually read the Bible out of curiosity. My dad used to listen to sermons on the radio for laughs so we wanted to get the jokes.