Life as a poor American is a life of slavery

[editec]

War is as old as prostitution. But not as much fun.

If the first war wasn't over property, it was over pussy.

No. I don't have a link - look around you.
​

No argument here.

STOP! You're both right.

In those days pussy WAS property.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Truthfully,

we all "pay" for it in some way

 

[daveman]

There would be revolution before that happened.

No American would submit to slavery.

Weren't you just condemning the OP for the same sort of ridiculous hyperbole?

Getting paid to do something is not slavery. Why shouldn't public benefits recipients do something to earn their money?

They do

They continue to vote for Democrats

Yes, that's all Democrats expect them to do.

Doesn't do the taxpayers funding it much good, though.

 

[WatertheTree]

Big Picture statistics:

The American economy is skewed - The distribution of wealth in a healthy economy resembles a nice bell curve - ours does not.

How to fix it is THE discussion of our day - but the first step to fixing the problem is to admit we have one. As long as the conservative voice continues to simply ignore the big-picture problem, our national economic debate will be stuck in the mud.

Conservatives also need to admit that "Personal Responsibility" and "lives protected by Corporate Paper" are mutually exclusive ideas.

I think this is a very common problems with politics today. There is ambiguity to everything. No subject has clear facts surrounding it.

I consider this a failure of media. They are not digging finding truth, instead they are presenting us with opinions of political pundits who aim only to influence our opinions. They say they are just giving us what we want, what the market demands, but I dont believe it. I think they are giving us a product that they are producing as cheaply as possible to maximize profits. All what 2 or 3 companies that control all the media?

 

[WatertheTree]

There has been a lot of talk in this country for years about the erosion of the middle class, however when I look at the income distribution in this country today I see that the income of the upper 50% of citizens is 87.3% of all the money earned in the country, and the income of the lower 50% is only 12.7%. There is in fact no middle class in America today; there is only us and them.

There are those who call this country is the land of opportunity, but as I live and breathe today I know without a doubt that this is a lie, it may have been true in the year 1900, but not having lived then I cannot say if it was just as much a lie in those days. The reality is there’s a glass ceiling in this nation at the 50% mark, if one is born above that line, one can have any opportunity under the sun and go as far as ones individual capabilities allow, but if one is born below that line ones only purpose in living so far as American society is concerned, is to work. And furthermore to work always for the benefit and profit of someone born above that 50% line.

Want your kids to go to college? Better be prepared to pay. Contrary to what the upper-class would have you believe federal student aid is of little use, the maximum a person of the lower class may receive is just over 30,000. This may sound like a significant amount to some, however in reality it will not even pay for an education at a state level university, to say nothing of the ivy league. Think your kids smart enough to earn a scholarship? Keep dreaming, the vast majority of scholarships offered are given to children from families who are already above that 50% line. Said scholarships are just given out as free benefits to coax kids with “the right breeding” in, or in some cases to help schools meet their minimum standards under affirmative action. Said scholarships will never go to a child from the lower 50% simply because of the kids own intellect. And as for that federal student aid money you can get, it will just about pay for community college, a degree that will get one nothing except a low level office job at best.

So in what other ways might the lower 50% “pull themselves up by the bootstraps” as republicans like to claim they should?
[snip ....]

Want to start any kind of business? Go give it a shot. While we have all heard the “success stories”, the reality is that such a small percentage of such ventures succeed as to make the real number of success’s insignificant. Of course good luck getting backing from the banks. The reality is if your born to the upper 50% like that idiot James O’Keefe, the banks will extend you a 50,000 dollar line of credit at the drop of a hat no matter how stupid your business model is, just like it did for him. But if you’re born to the lower 50%, good luck with the banks, No matter how good your business model is! Unlike the studios you will get the chance to be laughed out of every bank in town.

In the end it’s all a lie. If you’re born to the lower class, your sole purpose in this society is to work your ass off for the benefit of the upper class. Frankly I’m at the point where I would love nothing more than for a REAL class war to break out, because as far as I’m concerned that upper 50% can just kiss my fucking ass.

What is this OP... a farce? If not a farce you are, with all due respect, full of crap. My own case is a good example of that. I was born into a family which could not be called middle class. Except for managing to own our own home, we fit none of the parameters of the middle class. Neither of my parents went beyond the eighth grade. They raised 6 children during the depression, and all but one of us kids graduated from high school, and none went to college. I was the exception; by being the one who did NOT graduate high school, only getting a GED while in the military.

Getting a job straight out of the USMC in 1964 I declined drawing any unemployment compensation and went seventy miles outside my hometown to find and take a job as a junior engineer for $500 a month. Within seven months I was able to, without benefit of a co-signer, buy a half acre parcel on contract and use it, along with sweat-equity, to then build a brand new home for my fiancé and myself before we were married. It was ready to move into on our wedding day in August, 1965, one year and two weeks after I was discharged from the Marine Corps. I had moved back to the hometown to take a manufacturing job 36 miles from home at $100 more a month.

We were able, on our very small combined salaries (added together they were about $900 a month) to make advanced payments as a savings tool and sell it in four years and build another home four times the value, using the equity from the first one to leverage it the construction and mortgage loan. Three years later we repeated that, doubling the value of our second home with our third new one in a row. I had been helping people build their new homes, using a hammer the first time when I added a carport on my first one. By 72, in partnership with my brother we built his new house, and got a job to build another for one of the guys in my engineering office. (In 1969 I had left the manufacturing job applying to Westinghouse Electric Corporation as a junior industrial engineer) Then together we found a four acre tract for sale by an old land-baron in the area, who liked to sell on contract – if the contract defaulted he would give the defaulter all the principle back, but take the land back too for resale to another buyer - and we developed it into 7 residential lots, on which we built houses for the next couple of years.

In the meantime I left my engineering job as a full engineer to build homes and develop land into residential subdivisions separate from my brother. My next project was a ninety acre tract I developed into 30 estate sized lots suitable for luxury homes. During that time I had a half million dollar line of credit, and to get my business a new bank in our city (Chase) offered to and gave me a signature line of credit for $50K, based solely on my financial statement. This was pre-Fannie and Freddie, in the days of the 80% loan to principle ratio, and for specs and land development 60% loan to principle ratio.

At that time my financial statement showed a net worth of about a half million (assets minus liabilities) but that included my rolling stock, so I expected it would be drawn down as the stock (lots and spec houses) sold off. When my last lot sold the money from that my home, and twenty lots in partnership with my brother were about all we had, but I bought more land sans partner and started the process again, this time liquidating my lots and raw land so as to retire with a large part of my net worth in the bank instead of being drawn down for regular income.

My older brother (unlike me he was a high school graduate) followed about the same path ( after leaving a failed masonry business in Chicago in 1969) but after a few years of seeing how the net worth was spent down he decided he could accrue wealth better by building and renting the units, retaining ownership and retaining ownership of them; all duplexes. He is a multiple-millionaire and has, after selling the first few hundred off as condominiums a few at time, bought, loan free another three-quarter-million of old housing in separate (individual) older homes scattered in the two county area.

My own son, like I didn't go to college, probably because, (again like me) he wasn't college material. But he has a sound business in the HVAC business, and his daughter did get a scholarship to I.U. under the guidance of her high school admin.

I don't want to write a novel; I couldn't. I don't want to be a famous actor, I proved I didn't have talent for acting when I forgot my lines my first time on stage in the Christmas play while in the third grade. As for an inheritance, we six kids each got six thousand from the sale of our parent’s home in 1973 when they both passed away.

I would say that at the time I built up my own family's wealth, that I know of six or seven more of my peers who did about the same thing; some better, some not as well. But the main difference between them and me is that I didn't even graduate from high school, leaving in the middle of my senior year. That has to prove something even if it is only anecdotal.

Coming out of the depression my daddy had a more constructive view of banks and lending. He was loaned $500 by his sister to build a home for his family, sold and bought on land contract, and at 14 years he introduced me to financing through local merchants the things I wanted but didn’t have enough of my own funds for ready purchase. There is utility in borrowing money one doesn’t have if it can put it to use earning a return on investment. I have and always have had the top credit rating. I accomplished what I did by never giving up, and working as many hours as it took to get the job done, even though at times I felt that I couldn’t make it – like in the bad years of 79 and 80.

While you have a interesting story it is a typical description of the world we live in. People under 30 have a very different reality then people over 30. Most doors of opportunity are now closed, or are clearly closing fast.

 

[WatertheTree]

How can someone come here from another country, with no education, can't speak the language, no money, doesn't even know anyone and be successful? So successful, they can and SHOULD tell lazy good for nothing Americans to kiss their fucking asses.

Friend of mine arrived here in 1957 as an immigrant from Hungary. He couldn't speak a word of english, but managed to get along, got work on pipeline surveys in North Carolina (he was a surveyor in Hungary), and by 1970 he had established himself in our county in Indiana as a land surveyor. Ran for and was elected as the county surveyor. He ran a successful business doing land surveys and subdivision plats, and eventually expanded his business into aerial surveys (hiring planes to fly-over) for pipeline mapping anywhere in the US.

Before he passed away from a stroke about four years back he was successful enough to visit Hungary annually, and to own a stable of race horses, and these were high priced animals.

He managed to live the good life with all the constraints you mention. His favorite saying was "Too late smart, too soon old" which he spun into an ethnic Hungarian humor piece. His English was never anywhere near fluent midwest, but he mostly mastered the grammar and even the native midwest idiom.

1957 being the time frame here. The world we live in today is very different then the reality of yesterday.

 

[spectrumc01]

The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty.

A completely false premise (of course).

slective reading obviously. let me help you :

And that is the main issue behind everything. The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty. Except the Democrats help the poor for alterior motives, they use them to hopefully keep the political power and wealth for themselves. They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything. This suits them just fine because they want to give the poor just enough to keep them on their side (votes). In reality the Democrats and Republicans in power right now don't want to share their pie with anyone.

At least quote everything.

 

[spectrumc01]

Explain to me how the poor influenced the "free trade" agreements over the last decade or more? Explain to me how Accounting practices that created ENRON were the poors fault. Explain to me how Bernie Madoff was going to blame his theft on the poor? Explain to me how government corruption is the poors fault? When you can do this I'll admit that all of our problems belong on the poors shoulders. The Poor and the Wealthy have created this mess. Voting Republican and Democrat will ensure that it continues. The real blame for our problems fall squarely on the voting public. We do not demand better. Prove me wrong.

Explain to me how the definition of "poor" got to be big screen tvs(plural), x-boxes, cell phones, 7 kids from 5 daddies, and asses as wide as a truck.

Well, you didn't answer the question, therefore you have not proved me wrong.

I will however answer yours. Fraud is a crime. If you know of people claiming poverty that are scamming the system it is your responsibility to turn them in instead of bitching online. There is a difference between criminals and poor people. You obviously have confused the two.

 

[Full-Auto]

The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty.

A completely false premise (of course).

slective reading obviously. let me help you :

And that is the main issue behind everything. The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty. Except the Democrats help the poor for alterior motives, they use them to hopefully keep the political power and wealth for themselves. They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything. This suits them just fine because they want to give the poor just enough to keep them on their side (votes). In reality the Democrats and Republicans in power right now don't want to share their pie with anyone.

At least quote everything.

They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything.

You are a nut case...............

 

[The T]

Can't say it can't be done, but I hope not - A return to slavery would take a generation so destitute that they volunteer servitude in exchange for food and shelter.




How do y'all feel about welfare recipients picking up trash along the roads?

There would be revolution before that happened.

No American would submit to slavery.

Weren't you just condemning the OP for the same sort of ridiculous hyperbole?

Getting paid to do something is not slavery. Why shouldn't public benefits recipients do something to earn their money?

Fairness don't ya know?

 

[Neotrotsky]

The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty.

A completely false premise (of course).

slective reading obviously. let me help you :

And that is the main issue behind everything. The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty. Except the Democrats help the poor for alterior motives, they use them to hopefully keep the political power and wealth for themselves. They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything. This suits them just fine because they want to give the poor just enough to keep them on their side (votes). In reality the Democrats and Republicans in power right now don't want to share their pie with anyone.

At least quote everything.

Again

the Democrats want to keep the poor exactly where they are
as long as they keep voting for them

The Left has no real interest in improving their situation with things of
real value that will make them less dependent
It is nothing more than the modern day left version of "panem et circenses"

Again, nothing more than "sugar coated" slavery

However, if you take any man give him a job and make him pay taxes
He is more likely to vote for Republicans


When it comes to keeping the people in the poverty cycle,
the left has more at stake and more to lose than the right

The wealthy has no vested interest in keeping people poor
Unless you assume that wealth is fixed and finite- poor education no doubt

 

[candycorn]

There has been a lot of talk in this country for years about the erosion of the middle class, however when I look at the income distribution in this country today I see that the income of the upper 50% of citizens is 87.3% of all the money earned in the country, and the income of the lower 50% is only 12.7%. There is in fact no middle class in America today; there is only us and them.

There are those who call this country is the land of opportunity, but as I live and breathe today I know without a doubt that this is a lie, it may have been true in the year 1900, but not having lived then I cannot say if it was just as much a lie in those days. The reality is there’s a glass ceiling in this nation at the 50% mark, if one is born above that line, one can have any opportunity under the sun and go as far as ones individual capabilities allow, but if one is born below that line ones only purpose in living so far as American society is concerned, is to work. And furthermore to work always for the benefit and profit of someone born above that 50% line.

Want your kids to go to college? Better be prepared to pay. Contrary to what the upper-class would have you believe federal student aid is of little use, the maximum a person of the lower class may receive is just over 30,000. This may sound like a significant amount to some, however in reality it will not even pay for an education at a state level university, to say nothing of the ivy league. Think your kids smart enough to earn a scholarship? Keep dreaming, the vast majority of scholarships offered are given to children from families who are already above that 50% line. Said scholarships are just given out as free benefits to coax kids with “the right breeding” in, or in some cases to help schools meet their minimum standards under affirmative action. Said scholarships will never go to a child from the lower 50% simply because of the kids own intellect. And as for that federal student aid money you can get, it will just about pay for community college, a degree that will get one nothing except a low level office job at best.

So in what other ways might the lower 50% “pull themselves up by the bootstraps” as republicans like to claim they should?

Want to be a movie star? Better be prepared to pay. The only way to get ones foot “in the door” of Hollywood is to pay an agent, an incredible expense that a performer just entering the field can’t hope to pay unless they are already members of the upper class, already born to that upper 50%. Without an agent, you won’t get laughed out of every studio in town, because you’ll never set foot in one.

Want to write a great movie? Same thing, better get an agent, and don’t think you can afford one unless you make over 100 grand a year already. Without an agent you will never sell a script in Hollywood, but take it from me, if your movies good enough you will darn well get it plagiarized in Hollywood, in fact you can get that in no time flat.

Want to write the great American novel? Better pay out the nose for an agent because without one no legitimate publisher in the country will look at your manuscript, unless it’s to allow an established writer from the upper 50% plagiarize you. Think you’re going to self-publish it? Dream on. The volume of material available for sale on amazon, kindle, and similar sites and services dictates that unless you pay out the nose for advertising, you will have zero sales.

Want to start any kind of business? Go give it a shot. While we have all heard the “success stories”, the reality is that such a small percentage of such ventures succeed as to make the real number of success’s insignificant. Of course good luck getting backing from the banks. The reality is if your born to the upper 50% like that idiot James O’Keefe, the banks will extend you a 50,000 dollar line of credit at the drop of a hat no matter how stupid your business model is, just like it did for him. But if you’re born to the lower 50%, good luck with the banks, No matter how good your business model is! Unlike the studios you will get the chance to be laughed out of every bank in town.

In the end it’s all a lie. If you’re born to the lower class, your sole purpose in this society is to work your ass off for the benefit of the upper class. Frankly I’m at the point where I would love nothing more than for a REAL class war to break out, because as far as I’m concerned that upper 50% can just kiss my fucking ass.

Someone needs a history lesson; bad.

 

[daveman]

There would be revolution before that happened.

No American would submit to slavery.

Weren't you just condemning the OP for the same sort of ridiculous hyperbole?

Getting paid to do something is not slavery. Why shouldn't public benefits recipients do something to earn their money?

Fairness don't ya know?

Ahhh, the ol' standby for justifying covetousness.

 

[spectrumc01]

A completely false premise (of course).

slective reading obviously. let me help you :

And that is the main issue behind everything. The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty. Except the Democrats help the poor for alterior motives, they use them to hopefully keep the political power and wealth for themselves. They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything. This suits them just fine because they want to give the poor just enough to keep them on their side (votes). In reality the Democrats and Republicans in power right now don't want to share their pie with anyone.

At least quote everything.

They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything.

You are a nut case...............

WOW....If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. You obviously are not only part of the problem but are actively working to make it worse. You won't be happy until the people of this country tear it apart. Are you even American? What happened to the betterment of the country? Can you explain how keeping a large portion of the country in poverty is beneficial? The poor are not going away any time soon, you probably have "The final solution" don't you?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Too funny

Godwin's law

 

[daveman]

slective reading obviously. let me help you :

And that is the main issue behind everything. The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty. Except the Democrats help the poor for alterior motives, they use them to hopefully keep the political power and wealth for themselves. They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything. This suits them just fine because they want to give the poor just enough to keep them on their side (votes). In reality the Democrats and Republicans in power right now don't want to share their pie with anyone.

At least quote everything.

They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything.

You are a nut case...............

WOW....If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. You obviously are not only part of the problem but are actively working to make it worse. You won't be happy until the people of this country tear it apart. Are you even American? What happened to the betterment of the country? Can you explain how keeping a large portion of the country in poverty is beneficial? The poor are not going away any time soon, you probably have "The final solution" don't you?

You are an emotional little thing, aren't you?

 

[The T]

Weren't you just condemning the OP for the same sort of ridiculous hyperbole?

Getting paid to do something is not slavery. Why shouldn't public benefits recipients do something to earn their money?

Fairness don't ya know?

Ahhh, the ol' standby for justifying covetousness.

But hey? They are Secular so it doesn't apply.

 

[spectrumc01]

Perhaps we all need clarification.

Do conservatives consider criminals the "poor"?

I consider criminals exactly what they are criminals. Those committing welfare fraud are criminals just like those that run Pozi schemes, also ,medicade and medicare fraud are committed by criminals as well.

 

[Unkotare]

The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty.

A completely false premise (of course).

slective reading obviously. let me help you :

And that is the main issue behind everything. The wealthy (Republicans) don't want the poor to get anything, keeping the indentured servitude going. They are at odds with those (Democrats) that want to help the poor out of poverty. .

Let me help YOU: That is a false premise and anything based upon it is meaningless.

 

[spectrumc01]

They know that the Republicans will fight until their last breath to keep the poor from getting anything.

You are a nut case...............

WOW....If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. You obviously are not only part of the problem but are actively working to make it worse. You won't be happy until the people of this country tear it apart. Are you even American? What happened to the betterment of the country? Can you explain how keeping a large portion of the country in poverty is beneficial? The poor are not going away any time soon, you probably have "The final solution" don't you?

You are an emotional little thing, aren't you?

you get emotional response from a video screen?