LIBYA vs. IRAQ

[M14 Shooter]

i loooove the left trying to justify this war, it is like watching a 3 year old try to tell their parents they didn't eat the cookies when they have crumbs on their face.

I don't think the US has declared war on Libya, doofus.

A war, and/or a state of war, can exist w/o a declaration from Congress.

 

[High_Gravity]

Mustafa Gheriani, spokesman for the revolutionary national council in its stronghold of Benghazi, said the appeal was to be made by a delegation meeting the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, and the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, in Paris on Monday, as G8 foreign ministers gathered there to consider whether to back French and British calls for a no-fly zone over Libya.

Libyan Revolutionaries Call for Intervention by Western Powers | REPUBLICAN REDEFINED

Several Iraqi dissident groups namely the Iraqi National Congress asked for our help, so that must mean the Iraqi Invasion was completely legitimate.

This is about Libya not Iraq. Did the UN authorize military action in Iraq after SCR 1441 mission was complete? Did the UN authorize military action in Libya

So the UN authorized Military action? who cares? the UN has no authority to send US Troops into combat, we should have sat this one out.

 

[McDowell's]

Mustafa Gheriani, spokesman for the revolutionary national council in its stronghold of Benghazi, said the appeal was to be made by a delegation meeting the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, and the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, in Paris on Monday, as G8 foreign ministers gathered there to consider whether to back French and British calls for a no-fly zone over Libya.

Libyan Revolutionaries Call for Intervention by Western Powers | REPUBLICAN REDEFINED

Several Iraqi dissident groups namely the Iraqi National Congress asked for our help, so that must mean the Iraqi Invasion was completely legitimate.

This is about Libya not Iraq. Did the UN authorize military action in Iraq after SCR 1441 mission was complete? Did the UN authorize military action in Libya

Yes, but as has been pointed out several times, the President is required to get Congressional approval to participate in UN operations which involve actual combat operations.

United States Code: Title 22,287d. Use of armed forces; limitations | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[B. Kidd]

Pentagon reporting that Libya still killing the opposition. So much for an air power strategy in an urban civil war setting. Duhhhhh!!!

 

[B. Kidd]

Instead of warmongers, what do we call Democrats now.......Kinetic-Military-Actionmongers?

 

[BlindBoo]

Several Iraqi dissident groups namely the Iraqi National Congress asked for our help, so that must mean the Iraqi Invasion was completely legitimate.

This is about Libya not Iraq. Did the UN authorize military action in Iraq after SCR 1441 mission was complete? Did the UN authorize military action in Libya

So the UN authorized Military action? who cares? the UN has no authority to send US Troops into combat, we should have sat this one out.

Nobody said the UN ordered any US troop into action anywhere did they? Really you asked who from Libya asked anyone for help. I gave you an answer and you brought up the Iraq Invasion? Since the UN was created it has been used many times by member nations to confront aggression.

I do not support interventionism.

 

[McDowell's]

I'm still not sure how the UN justifies its involvement. I thought the purpose of the UN was to prevent aggressor nations from starting wars with their neighbors. This is an internal conflict within a single nation. The UN really has no basis for getting involved.

The Purposes of the United Nations are:
1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
3. To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
4. To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

All of those reference international relations. Not intranational. If anything, the UN has thrown its first purpose out the window by abetting an international war in response to an internal conflict.

 

[B. Kidd]

Ooops!
NATO deal reported in jeopardy.
Time to get that worm back into the bag.....

 

[Uncle Kenny]

O.K. we had a decade of Iraqi citizens asking for foreign help expelling SH. The argument that "they didn't want us there" is a flat untruth. We were approached for a decade in regard to removing SH, by majority populations in Iraq, and we weren't poorly recieved either during or immediately after the invasion. On the contrary, until civil unrest began cropping up in mass, we were well recieved, it was months after the invasion that Iraqi sentiment shifted, adn rightly so as we did have an agenda that wasn't favorable to them.

Similarly, we had a Congressional orgy of approval until months into the occupation when there was political advantage in oposition, then supporters used the flimsy justifications they knew were sketchy at the onset as excuse for political gamemanship. Some of the conduct being highly unbecoming and detrimetal of the war effort they supported.

We had a real national security purpose for invading and despite the constant use of the UN as a sanctioning authority, no UN approval was needed to garner a coalition and invade. As Congressional approval was obtained, there was no "illegal" status for the invasion. That is without argument as it is solid historical fact. No law could be proved broken in any of the pre-war actions, so "illegal" is a misnomer and political determination, not a legal one.

Iraq was a very desirable place to fight an ongoing conflict outside the borders of the U.S. The clear advantage being our armed military fighting radicals in a remote location as oposed to our civilian populace facing attacks domesticly. It isn't the most popular or agreeable motive, but it is the most practical and in hindsight sucessful one for the Iraq invasion. Obviously we can't state this as it would be very unpopular internationally, but it worked and the net effect wasn't all negative for Iraq either.

Lybia is a different situation. The President can order bombings overseas without Congressional approval or UN approval for that matter. The fact is we don't have the same poitical or security reasons for an action in Lybia as we did in Iraq and we are following a different protocol in acting. It is in many ways apples to oranges in actual end game and net investment and return. We are not going to gain from this action what we have gained in Iraq and therefore the scale and urgency are different as well.

Either way neither President was in violation of U.S. law or policy and both have acted in accordance with their mandate and circumstances. Once our military is involved, partican crap should be ceased, in my opinion. I didn't appreciate the left using military action for personal gain and I don't appreciate the right doing it either.

 

[Liberty]

i loooove the left trying to justify this war, it is like watching a 3 year old try to tell their parents they didn't eat the cookies when they have crumbs on their face.

I don't think the US has declared war on Libya, doofus.

yeah because dropping bombs is not an act of war, right? Wake up.

 

[NYcarbineer]

LIBYA vs. IRAQ
They spoke loud and clear with their protesting.
Iraqis did not ask for our help. Bush's mission in Iraq was not to stop Saddam from killing his people but about WMDs which he did not have. Otherwise he did not give a damn about the people of Iraq. Saddam had been killing his people for decades. What did Bush do about the genocide in Africa?
Our mission in Iraq changed with the tide. WMDs, genocide, connection with Al Qaeda, Take your pick.
Whether he is in the US, Libya or Brazil, Obama can lead. His visit to Brazil was more important then Libya. He took care of Libya before he left for Brazil.


Our mission in Iraq has mutatedBy IVAN GOLDMAN
GUEST COLUMNIST

One of the oddest features of our strange, strange war in Iraq is that we're still trying to figure out the mission. Oil? Religious zealotry? Revenge? Glory? What?

Some critics say President Bush has failed to define just what it is we're trying to do there, but he and his handlers have defined it over and over. The trouble is, just about everyone understands by now that they've been lying all along. So media questioners twist themselves into pretzels trying to figure out some polite way of asking them to tell the truth, just once.

Our mission in Iraq has mutated


Defense Secretary: US Expects to Hand Over the Lead of Libya Mission in 'Days' Sunday, March 20, 2011
By Lolita C. Baldor, Associated Press

Onboard a US Military Aircraft (AP) – U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday that the U.S. expects to turn control of the Libya military mission over to a coalition – probably headed either by the French and British or by NATO – "in a matter of days."
Defense Secretary: US Expects to Hand Over the Lead of Libya Mission in 'Days' | CNSnews.com

Not true. The Iraqis did ask for our help, in fact it was Iraqi interests concocting tales of WMD's that helped build that lie; that was done by Iraqis to help convince us to overthrow Saddam for them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Several Iraqi dissident groups namely the Iraqi National Congress asked for our help, so that must mean the Iraqi Invasion was completely legitimate.

This is about Libya not Iraq. Did the UN authorize military action in Iraq after SCR 1441 mission was complete? Did the UN authorize military action in Libya

So the UN authorized Military action? who cares? the UN has no authority to send US Troops into combat, we should have sat this one out.

All we had to do was abstain like the Chinese, Brazilians, et al did, and let the midget Sarkozy do his thing.

 

[NYcarbineer]

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”
Bishop Desmond Tutu quotes

How many South African troops helped us in Iraq?? lol

 

[Eric Cartman]

I respect the anti-war left and libertarian conservatives who don't support this action but anyone that supported the Iraq war (if consistent ) should support this action.

If you take all of the justifications for Iraq there seems to be a stronger reasons/justifications in the case of Libya.

 

[B. Kidd]

Ooops!
NATO deal reported in jeopardy.
Time to get that worm back into the bag.....

So this is what Obama calls a 'seamless transfer'.
What a bag o' worms......

 

[Uncle Kenny]

I respect the anti-war left and libertarian conservatives who don't support this action but anyone that supported the Iraq war (if consistent ) should support this action.

If you take all of the justifications for Iraq there seems to be a stronger reasons/justifications in the case of Libya.

I wouldn't call them stronger, but reasonable, especially given that insurgency isn't nearly as likely now after Iraq than it might have been prior to Iraq. Please read my earlier post for clarification of the point I am making. Thanks.

Oh, and pre-war support for invasion in Iraq was well above 80% of Americans, a massive majority so I agree some slack should be given here as the pacifists and isolationists are obviously a small minority in the U.S.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

LIBYA vs. IRAQ
They spoke loud and clear with their protesting.
Iraqis did not ask for our help. Bush's mission in Iraq was not to stop Saddam from killing his people but about WMDs which he did not have. Otherwise he did not give a damn about the people of Iraq. Saddam had been killing his people for decades. What did Bush do about the genocide in Africa?
Our mission in Iraq changed with the tide. WMDs, genocide, connection with Al Qaeda, Take your pick.
Whether he is in the US, Libya or Brazil, Obama can lead. His visit to Brazil was more important then Libya. He took care of Libya before he left for Brazil.


Our mission in Iraq has mutatedBy IVAN GOLDMAN
GUEST COLUMNIST

One of the oddest features of our strange, strange war in Iraq is that we're still trying to figure out the mission. Oil? Religious zealotry? Revenge? Glory? What?

Some critics say President Bush has failed to define just what it is we're trying to do there, but he and his handlers have defined it over and over. The trouble is, just about everyone understands by now that they've been lying all along. So media questioners twist themselves into pretzels trying to figure out some polite way of asking them to tell the truth, just once.

Our mission in Iraq has mutated


Defense Secretary: US Expects to Hand Over the Lead of Libya Mission in 'Days' Sunday, March 20, 2011
By Lolita C. Baldor, Associated Press

Onboard a US Military Aircraft (AP) – U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday that the U.S. expects to turn control of the Libya military mission over to a coalition – probably headed either by the French and British or by NATO – "in a matter of days."
Defense Secretary: US Expects to Hand Over the Lead of Libya Mission in 'Days' | CNSnews.com

Is there an alternate universe where Lefties on this board live? I find it hard to believe that so many people share the exact same delusion as a result of mental illness.