Libs: What are your true cultural values?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by MaggieMae, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. MaggieMae
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    MaggieMae Reality bits

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    Be honest about these three conscience-raising values, NOT politically motivated based on ideology or agenda. Here's mine:

    Abortion: First, a confession: I used to be pro-choice for all the politically correct reasons, until the day my niece, an RN who was living with us at the time, came home after her shift and described the unbelievable event that happened following a patient's miscarriage.

    The two-month old fetus, presumed dead, had been placed in a metal bowl as it was expelled, when suddenly a tiny cavity opened (the mouth, although not distinguishable as such) and the fetus took a breath of air. In that instant, the film (not yet skin) covering the baby came alive with visible blood rushing throughout the formed veins of the tiny body, like watching an animated X-ray my niece said. It took less than 30 seconds for this incredible event, and then the child died because its organs were not yet able to sustain its life further. But that struggle for life was clear, even at that early stage.

    My dilemma remains, however, how should society treat all the unwanted children?

    Racial bigotry: Like the crutch that was the holocaust that some Jews continue to use to justify the attitude that the rest of the world owes them something, certain segments of the African-American community need to stop using slavery and other historical examples of oppression as their crutch to justify bad behavior and/or laziness. Nuff said.

    Gays: Most of us who aren't gay don't understand the sexual component of homosexuality. Some, therefore, react with disgust which translates to hatred because of something they don't understand. Others will react with a shrug (me) since what goes on in a bedroom is highly personal anyway and I don't care what other people do.

    I have another niece (I have several!) who is a 40-something Harvard professor, a witty and funny, warm woman who is also a lesbian. She also has absolutely no desire to "marry" anybody. She is simply more comfortable in the presence of women. Yet I also have a male friend who is gay, and finally married his partner of 20 years. They both had been accepted as a "couple" for many years, and no one thought anything of it. However, their "marriage" has lasted only two years, and now they want a divorce. Go figure. It just goes to show that people are people. Shit happens. Bottom line is that both are examples of human personality traits that affect homosexuals exactly the same as straight people.

    Christianity: I find that the basic tenet of Christianity--do unto others--has been dramatically lost in translation over the years. Rather than going into more explanations of my own experiences, this recent proclamation by the Washington DC Catholic Diocese has me seeing red and is a perfect example of the hypocrisies we see so often with respect to the Christian faith (and I don't mean to single out Catholicism):

    Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum on same-sex marriage issue - washingtonpost.com

    A lot on the plate here, and maybe too much for people to explore their own deep thoughts. So if anyone cares to respond (in parts if you wish), please try to do it by expressing your own personal assessment of these three issues and not parrot your friends and relatives or your favorite blogger.
     
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  2. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Abortion: I find it reprehensible, but the cat is out of the bag. We will never eliminate abortion, it is available around the world. I am a realist and know that neither abortion or gun ownership will be outlawed nation wide. Best option is to cut down the need for abortion.....Birth control, sex education, free neonatal care, assistance to single mothers

    Racial bigotry: It is here, but not as bad as it once was. We have made enormous progress. We don't owe people anything other than a fair shake.....some groups still do not get a fair shake.
    I believe most problems blacks face are due to black culture and not white descrimination. 70% of black children born to unwed mothers, limited emphasis on education, black on black crime, gangs, drugs...all are self inflicted and need to be handled within the black community

    Gays: I still wince when I see gays kissing, but am willing to accept it. I think gays have a right to marry, raise children and do everything heterosexuals do. I look at what they do as having no impact on my life so leave them alone

    Christianity: I am an atheist....I have been brought up Christian but just don't buy it as the truth. Most Christians are good people and do good for the community. I have problems with fundamentalists who are intolerant of others while demanding their own doctrine be accepted
     
  3. rdean
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    rdean rddean

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    Abortion - If the "anti" women's rights people put their money where their mouth is and actually came up with ways women who become pregnant for whatever reason could take care of those children, then I suspect that the numbers of abortion would drop dramatically.
    Saying that women use abortion as "birth control" is a flat out lie. Sure, there may be a very few who are irresponsible, but if I hear one more, "I know a woman who has had 15 abortions because it's easier than birth control", I'm going to puke.
    How many children are waiting to be adopted? That kind of tells the story.
    The right flat out lies when they suggest the left has "abortion parties" and "have abortions for fun". No one likes abortion. But we already know for sure that women will have back alley dirty unbent hanger abortions if no other options. It was up until just a few days ago that anyone working for the RNC could get an abortion and the party would pay for it. Wonder how many used that "benefit"?

    Racial bigotry? Living in Chicago, I know lots of black people. I work with black people. As far as I know, none belong to gangs. When I was in the military, I worked with lots of black people, none belonged to gangs. If you go to "white" ghettos, you will find lots of gang members, none of them black. The real problem here is poverty. An inner city black with that ignorant slang is looked askance just as much as that dumb hillbilly twang or that white south side Chicago drawl. Poverty and language skills. The two largest causes of bigotry. It call all be traced back to those.

    Gays - Doesn't bother me seeing anyone kiss, unless it's like those young couples sitting in the park, or at the beach, or in a restaurant, swapping spit and rotating their heads while their mouths are pressed together wide open. Of course, I have never seen gays do that.
    There are probably way more "swingers" than gays considering there are "swingers clubs" in every state in the union. And a 50% divorce rate.
    When you look at gay contributions to society in science, literature, art, dance, music, architecture and so many other fields and look at the small and meager contributions of evangelicals, I would much rather have more gays. Who wouldn't?

    Religion - it's just so stupid. Mysticism, ghosts, supernatural, occult, angels, devils, demons, sprites, deities, it's just stupid. It's like believing in Marvel Comics. And there is exactly the same amount of evidence. Exactly. Just wanting something to be real, doesn't make it real.
     
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  4. MaggieMae
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    MaggieMae Reality bits

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    You think basically as I do.
     
  5. amrchaos
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    amrchaos Pentheus torn apart

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    Abortion--it can be eliminated, but the method of doing so is extremely costly and to be honest, I know that conservative values against Big Government and high taxes will keep it present. By the way--my views on abortion and parents rights actually are some what tied together. You see, I think the mother has the right to eliminate her kids at any point between abortion until the child leaves to fend for him/herself. I do not call this women rights--I call this parents rights(this includes how to raise the child, punishments befitting the child and so on. Only time Social welfare can be called in is when the parents give up on the child and refuse to remove them from this realm.)

    Racial Bigotry. Is it a problem--depends on who you talk to. In general, it is nothing like the church burning, Gas chamber tosing, Trail of Tears marching, Irish starving bigotry of old. In fact, compare today with the past, and this look like a very tolerant and highly acceptive nation. On the other, prejudices are able to arise such as in the cases of tension that is brewing with muslims and non-mulims and the events in the middle(or here). If I were to assign a grade to our handling of it I would say somewhere between B+ and A, yet the target is still A++. Political correctness--that is just a method to hide peoples misconceptions about a group or individual and does not help in healing rifts. It should go.

    Gays--I am a Homophobe when it concerns gay males. Yet I still think that gays should live life the way they please. Just, please, do not tell me to much. (With lesbians, I find that I am still a pervert. I know, I will not get any. But who knows, she maybe willing to try once!!)

    Religion--Antoher Atheists here. I generally do not consider religion a bad thing for you. If it keep you functional and sane and bring your life great enrichment and joy, then I would argue you practicing the perfect faith. The concept of perfect being subjective here.

    On the issue of the Catholic church--they are only doing what religions set out to do--influence man to behave in their ideal concept of man. Personally, I already posted what I think DC should do. But even I have to recognize that that the religious are going is to do what the religion told them to do.

    Come to think about it. There is actually nothing seriously wrong in the Catholic church attempts in my opinion. It is just a bit brash and nothing more.
     
  6. MaggieMae
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    MaggieMae Reality bits

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    Good point about controlling abortiion on demand. I think Planned Parenthood tries to give advice, but unfortunately because of the nature of that organization, the advice is usually too late. There needs to be a group that becomes a household name whose sole goal is to provide counseling BEFORE a woman becomes pregnant, and those voices need to be forceful.
     
  7. alan1
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    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Abortion.....
    I used to be against abortion no matter what. I've changed. The determining factor for the end of life is absence of brain waves. Let that same standard be the determining factor for the beginning of life as well. If brainwaves exist, don't abort.
     
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  8. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    The title and post are well connected, like conservatives, it depends on who you are talking to.

    For me the abortion issue is: if there is a need for it (justifiable and legitimate) only. As a quick fix birth control, no. Each case has to be taken on it's own.
     
  9. xotoxi
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    xotoxi Platinum Member

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    ABORTION: I don't like it, but I am pro choice. However, I think that more should go into preventing unwanted pregnancies rather than terminating them. Why are people so friggin' horny???

    RACIAL BIGOTRY: It exists. It is often used as an excuse. And it goes both ways.

    GAYS: They can do what they want behind closed doors. Mild PDA are acceptable to me, just as mild hetero PDAs are acceptable. (I don't like seeing a man and a woman going at it in public.) Regarding marriage...marriage should not be recognized by the government and any two consenting adults can be given a Civil Union. Marriage is a relgious institution for which the government should have absolutely no authority to authorize or recognize.

    RELIGION: For the weak-minded.
     
  10. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Good post. This "liberal" agrees with you.
     

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