Libertarian Republicans Solution to Big Government?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

[youtube]u9rtlL4nq3c[/youtube]

 

[Big Black Dog]

It was an interesting clip to watch. I think it sums up my feelings pretty well. Both parties, the Democrats and the Republicans, have strayed away from their core beliefs. As a result of it all, I feel you have only "Liberal" and "Liberal Lite" for the names we used to call our political parties. Another problem is as the clip stated, unless you label yourself either a Democrat or a Republican, your chances for getting elected are greatly reduced. It's a shame because I have long been a believer that there should be multiple political parties in this country. Sure, there are several political parties outside of the Democrats and the Republicans but none of them have very much clout with the voters in spite of the candidates that they put up for office. I once called myself a Republican and I was very proud to do so but here of late I find myself without a real party that I can identify with because I don't agree with their current beliefs that are made visable by their actions. I would more likely call myself a conservative but there is no "conservative" political party. So, as in the last election, all I had to pick from was an awful candidate and a very poor choice of a candidate. It's a shame to have to vote by picking the best of the two poorest choices. That's why I feel we need more active, viable, political parties in this country.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It was an interesting clip to watch. I think it sums up my feelings pretty well. Both parties, the Democrats and the Republicans, have strayed away from their core beliefs. As a result of it all, I feel you have only "Liberal" and "Liberal Lite" for the names we used to call our political parties. Another problem is as the clip stated, unless you label yourself either a Democrat or a Republican, your chances for getting elected are greatly reduced. It's a shame because I have long been a believer that there should be multiple political parties in this country. Sure, there are several political parties outside of the Democrats and the Republicans but none of them have very much clout with the voters in spite of the candidates that they put up for office. I once called myself a Republican and I was very proud to do so but here of late I find myself without a real party that I can identify with because I don't agree with their current beliefs that are made visable by their actions. I would more likely call myself a conservative but there is no "conservative" political party. So, as in the last election, all I had to pick from was an awful candidate and a very poor choice of a candidate. It's a shame to have to vote by picking the best of the two poorest choices. That's why I feel we need more active, viable, political parties in this country.

Those weren't your only choices, but they were the only two choices that had a chance at winning the election.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

In my opinion, the solution to big government is for people to denounce their party loyalty. Freedom and Liberty is not about political parties and the allegiance thereto. The "salvation of this Republic will not come from the Republican Party. It will come from "We The People."

I am no fan of Abraham Lincoln, but he spoke truth in 1837. "At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

As a whole, the GOP has been about being just a little less crappy than the opposing "team." If the GOP supporters truly were about small government, and not putting up with the expanse of big government nanny state, they would have actually worked to put a stop to such thinking and action. As a whole they haven't.

I refuse to support any political party. I consider them a cancer upon this Republic. They seek their own political power and glory. They are born out of greed, jealousy, and political lust.

It is time "We The People" started putting the Constitution of this Republic first, instead of political party power. If they don't, they have no reason to complain. It is akin to someone running out onto the highway and defying the laws of probability.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

In my opinion, the solution to big government is for people to denounce their party loyalty. Freedom and Liberty is not about political parties and the allegiance thereto. The "salvation of this Republic will not come from the Republican Party. It will come from "We The People."

I am no fan of Abraham Lincoln, but he spoke truth in 1837. "At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

As a whole, the GOP has been about being just a little less crappy than the opposing "team." If the GOP supporters truly were about small government, and not putting up with the expanse of big government nanny state, they would have actually worked to put a stop to such thinking and action. As a whole they haven't.

I refuse to support any political party. I consider them a cancer upon this Republic. They seek their own political power and glory. They are born out of greed, jealousy, and political lust.

It is time "We The People" started putting the Constitution of this Republic first, instead of political party power. If they don't, they have no reason to complain. It is akin to someone running out onto the highway and defying the laws of probability.

That was the point some of the hosts were trying to make, that we need to take the country out of Democratic-Republican control. The problem is that most people look at independents as having no chance and refuse to support them. There's not going to be any mass exodus from the two party system, so it's fine to stand on principle but it's not exactly practical.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

In my opinion, the solution to big government is for people to denounce their party loyalty. Freedom and Liberty is not about political parties and the allegiance thereto. The "salvation of this Republic will not come from the Republican Party. It will come from "We The People."

I am no fan of Abraham Lincoln, but he spoke truth in 1837. "At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

As a whole, the GOP has been about being just a little less crappy than the opposing "team." If the GOP supporters truly were about small government, and not putting up with the expanse of big government nanny state, they would have actually worked to put a stop to such thinking and action. As a whole they haven't.

I refuse to support any political party. I consider them a cancer upon this Republic. They seek their own political power and glory. They are born out of greed, jealousy, and political lust.

It is time "We The People" started putting the Constitution of this Republic first, instead of political party power. If they don't, they have no reason to complain. It is akin to someone running out onto the highway and defying the laws of probability.

That was the point some of the hosts were trying to make, that we need to take the country out of Democratic-Republican control. The problem is that most people look at independents as having no chance and refuse to support them. There's not going to be any mass exodus from the two party system, so it's fine to stand on principle but it's not exactly practical.

If you don't stand on principle, what is left? The founding generation gave their lives for this Republic, as have the subsequent generations. Shall we mock their death in ridicule, by saying that it wasn't practical or convenient to stand on principle? If you put a price tag on selling out freedom and liberty today, what will be the price tomorrow?

I truly wish the people on this Republic would understand that the governance of this Republic is not a political football game. Our freedom and liberty in this Constitutional Republic is at stake.

I am not about abandoning the principles upon which this Republic was formed. I am not about abandoning the sacrifices that my fellow Americans made for this Republic. I would rather die, than barter away my freedom and liberty in the name of fear, complacency, or arrogance. If freedom and liberty isn't about being willing to sacrifice all that we have if need be, what the heck are we doing in this Republic? What is the point of forums like this, if freedom and liberty are nothing more than literary relics?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

In my opinion, the solution to big government is for people to denounce their party loyalty. Freedom and Liberty is not about political parties and the allegiance thereto. The "salvation of this Republic will not come from the Republican Party. It will come from "We The People."

I am no fan of Abraham Lincoln, but he spoke truth in 1837. "At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

As a whole, the GOP has been about being just a little less crappy than the opposing "team." If the GOP supporters truly were about small government, and not putting up with the expanse of big government nanny state, they would have actually worked to put a stop to such thinking and action. As a whole they haven't.

I refuse to support any political party. I consider them a cancer upon this Republic. They seek their own political power and glory. They are born out of greed, jealousy, and political lust.

It is time "We The People" started putting the Constitution of this Republic first, instead of political party power. If they don't, they have no reason to complain. It is akin to someone running out onto the highway and defying the laws of probability.

That was the point some of the hosts were trying to make, that we need to take the country out of Democratic-Republican control. The problem is that most people look at independents as having no chance and refuse to support them. There's not going to be any mass exodus from the two party system, so it's fine to stand on principle but it's not exactly practical.

If you don't stand on principle, what is left? The founding generation gave their lives for this Republic, as have the subsequent generations. Shall we mock their death in ridicule, by saying that it wasn't practical or convenient to stand on principle? If you put a price tag on selling out freedom and liberty today, what will be the price tomorrow?

I truly wish the people on this Republic would understand that the governance of this Republic is not a political football game. Our freedom and liberty in this Constitutional Republic is at stake.

I am not about abandoning the principles upon which this Republic was formed. I am not about abandoning the sacrifices that my fellow Americans made for this Republic. I would rather die, than barter away my freedom and liberty in the name of fear, complacency, or arrogance. If freedom and liberty isn't about being willing to sacrifice all that we have if need be, what the heck are we doing in this Republic? What is the point of forums like this, if freedom and liberty are nothing more than literary relics?

That's why I focus on issues rather than party. However, it's up to the candidates to realize that standing on principle and not running as a Democrat or Republican is ultimately going to get them nowhere. That's why we shouldn't disqualify anyone that runs as a Republican or Democrat.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

That was the point some of the hosts were trying to make, that we need to take the country out of Democratic-Republican control. The problem is that most people look at independents as having no chance and refuse to support them. There's not going to be any mass exodus from the two party system, so it's fine to stand on principle but it's not exactly practical.

If you don't stand on principle, what is left? The founding generation gave their lives for this Republic, as have the subsequent generations. Shall we mock their death in ridicule, by saying that it wasn't practical or convenient to stand on principle? If you put a price tag on selling out freedom and liberty today, what will be the price tomorrow?

I truly wish the people on this Republic would understand that the governance of this Republic is not a political football game. Our freedom and liberty in this Constitutional Republic is at stake.

I am not about abandoning the principles upon which this Republic was formed. I am not about abandoning the sacrifices that my fellow Americans made for this Republic. I would rather die, than barter away my freedom and liberty in the name of fear, complacency, or arrogance. If freedom and liberty isn't about being willing to sacrifice all that we have if need be, what the heck are we doing in this Republic? What is the point of forums like this, if freedom and liberty are nothing more than literary relics?

That's why I focus on issues rather than party. However, it's up to the candidates to realize that standing on principle and not running as a Democrat or Republican is ultimately going to get them nowhere. That's why we shouldn't disqualify anyone that runs as a Republican or Democrat.

I believe in voting for the person and not the party. I don't care what label they wear. If I agree with their beliefs per the Constitution, I will vote for them. They have to earn my vote.

 

[Ringel05]

BasicGreatGuy,
To make my response short and sweet: amen!
Unfortunately As along time student of history/sociology/psychology I have found this to be all to true:

The Lifecycle of Civilizations
by Rob Viglione
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tytler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.”


“A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequences:

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. from dependence back into bondage”

Given the nature of our elections, it’s evident we’re somewhere in complacency/ apathy/dependence stage. Is free healthcare, government run education, welfare, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and perhaps one day soon, a free Soviet-style bread line worth it?

Everything is cyclic.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

BasicGreatGuy,
To make my response short and sweet: amen!
Unfortunately As along time student of history/sociology/psychology I have found this to be all to true:

The Lifecycle of Civilizations
by Rob Viglione
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tytler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.”


“A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequences:

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

3. from courage to liberty;

4. from liberty to abundance;

5. from abundance to complacency;

6. from complacency to apathy;

7. from apathy to dependence;

8. from dependence back into bondage”

Given the nature of our elections, it’s evident we’re somewhere in complacency/ apathy/dependence stage. Is free healthcare, government run education, welfare, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and perhaps one day soon, a free Soviet-style bread line worth it?

Everything is cyclic.

Good post Ringel and thank you for the compliment.

I agree that what we are seeing today, is cyclical. We are going down the same path as Rome did. It bothers me that so many can't or won't see the ugly truth before them. Just the same, I am resolved to keep pressing forward. I will unite in cause and action with people I agree with, doing all that I can for this Republic. We cannot let up or give up.

Most people would never marry someone they didn't know or love. Most people would not put up with being mentally and physically abused day after day. That is no way to live. And yet, a lot of the employers of this Republic live that way. They allow themselves to be abused day after day. They elect and support people who they don't truly know or believe in, in hopes that that union will blossom into some kind of meaningful relationship, praying that the 1,000 time of doing the same thing will somehow produce good results. It is a recipe for disaster and heartache.

The governance of this Republic is not about perfection. We are all imperfect beings. What the governance of this Republic should be about, is demanding the very best from ourselves and our employees. If we aren't willing to walk the walk, we can't and shouldn't expect such of the employees.

I will check out that article more Ringel.

 

[Ringel05]

The problem I hope I am never faced with in my life time is the fact that at one time in my life I swore an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foriegn and domestic. While I may no longer be umployed by Uncle Sam I still considermyself bound by that oath.
The question is when the time comes we have three choices: Accept and give in, leave and denounce our citizenship or take up arms and fight. In my case for obvious reasons the first two are out. I'm left with the last choice which I hope I can continue to fight figuratively as opposed to literaly.


I agree that what we are seeing today, is cyclical. We are going down the same path as Rome did. It bothers me that so many can't or won't see the ugly truth before them. Just the same, I am resolved to keep pressing forward. I will unite in cause and action with people I agree with, doing all that I can for this Republic. We cannot let up or give up.

Most people would never marry someone they didn't know or love. Most people would not put up with being mentally and physically abused day after day. That is no way to live. And yet, a lot of the employers of this Republic live that way. They allow themselves to be abused day after day. They elect and support people who they don't truly know or believe in, in hopes that that union will blossom into some kind of meaningful relationship, praying that the 1,000 time of doing the same thing will somehow produce good results. It is a recipe for disaster and heartache.

The governance of this Republic is not about perfection. We are all imperfect beings. What the governance of this Republic should be about, is demanding the very best from ourselves and our employees. If we aren't willing to walk the walk, we can't and shouldn't expect such of the employees.

I will check out that article more Ringel.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Ringel,
I pray we never live to see option 3. But if that day comes in my lifetime, I will go down fighting.

I don't know about you, but I don't like being told I can't achieve a goal. Hearing that from naysayers makes me work even harder.

Education tempered with action is the key, in my opinion.

 

[Fatality]

In my opinion, the solution to big government is for people to denounce their party loyalty. Freedom and Liberty is not about political parties and the allegiance thereto. The "salvation of this Republic will not come from the Republican Party. It will come from "We The People."

just curious, but if I say to you that "I am a Republican" do you automaticaly assume I am talking about membership in a political party?

 

[elvis]

In my opinion, the solution to big government is for people to denounce their party loyalty. Freedom and Liberty is not about political parties and the allegiance thereto. The "salvation of this Republic will not come from the Republican Party. It will come from "We The People."

just curious, but if I say to you that "I am a Republican" do you automaticaly assume I am talking about membership in a political party?

I think about that a lot. What does it mean to be a democrat or republican? your beliefs? your voting record?

 

[Fatality]

In my opinion, the solution to big government is for people to denounce their party loyalty. Freedom and Liberty is not about political parties and the allegiance thereto. The "salvation of this Republic will not come from the Republican Party. It will come from "We The People."

just curious, but if I say to you that "I am a Republican" do you automaticaly assume I am talking about membership in a political party?

I think about that a lot. What does it mean to be a democrat or republican? your beliefs? your voting record?

Republicanism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[editec]

The only solution to bad government is better government.

Easy to explain but difficult to achieve.

Because once government goes bad, once they're tools for an elect class, they typically control that government and enough of the society's resources to prevent any meaningful reform of that government.

Pretty much where we're at today, far as I can tell.

 

[Ringel05]

Ringel,
I pray we never live to see option 3. But if that day comes in my lifetime, I will go down fighting.

I don't know about you, but I don't like being told I can't achieve a goal. Hearing that from naysayers makes me work even harder.

Education tempered with action is the key, in my opinion.

I know exactly what you mean