Liberals Godless? Not when faced with mortality..

-Cp

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Sep 23, 2004
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Sisters and Brothers Taking the Place of Fathers and Mothers
Wednesday, July 26, 2006
By Susan Estrich

LOS ANGELES — This is not your usual column. This has not been your usual day.

I am sitting in a chair in the hospital, watching my brother struggle to breathe. I meant to be writing a column about Israel and Hezbollah or Hillary’s lunge for the center, but I have been sitting here for five hours now, and I am having a hard time thinking of anything except what time the nurse will come in, what meds he will bring for infections and the latest readings of vital signs.

If you don’t have your health, my mother used to say, what do you have?

I want to call my mother to tell her not to worry, that I am here, sitting with my brother. I want her to tell me what a good girl I am for staying until nearly 2 in the morning — but my mother is gone, passed away last spring. She will never sit with any of us again. So I sit, where a mother would.

Sisters and brothers take the place of mothers and fathers.

This, too, is life. How did we get to be so old?

When did we get to be the grown-ups?

I do not believe in leaving people in hospitals alone. Hospitals are dangerous and scary places — even the best of them — and this is one of the very best. Three years ago, they saved my brother’s life here with emergency heart surgery; I was 6,000 miles away then. This is easy, by comparison. Just kidney stones. Intense pain, but not so dangerous.

Even so, I say. I do not want to take any chances. What if they forget you? What if you can’t reach your buzzer? Who will get the ice chips and the soda and call the nurse and wipe your forehead? I do.

I feel a little useful, at least. I will wait until your fever goes down, I tell my brother. That was four hours ago. I am still here. No one has asked me to leave. I take that as a bad sign. I have spent too much time in hospitals. Not being asked to leave after visiting hours have ended is always a bad sign.

There is a sense of urgency in a hospital that makes you feel, although surrounded by sickness, intensely, frighteningly, alive. And terrified at the same time. Mortality is everywhere. It is unavoidable.

My brother tells me he made many deals with God earlier today. Then he thought he was out of the woods. Then he got sick again. More deals. Who says we liberals are godless? Not when we’re sick.

I sit here and negotiate my own deals. I am in the hospital where all my grandparents died, where my uncles and aunts died; a hospital full of sadness, that’s how good a hospital it is.

Is God listening?

Can I remember to remember that this is what really matters?

Can I remember to remember that true pleasure is nothing more complicated than the absence of pain, that joy is nothing more complicated than not being here, than knowing no one who is here?

If I am extra polite to the nurses, will they take extra good care of my brother when I am gone?

What are we but flesh and blood, numbers and readings, fragile little people struggling to breathe?

I feel silly and useless with my giant briefcase full of important papers that will save no one’s life; my head full of meaningless facts that know nothing of blood pressure and infection.

I try my best to sound respectful to the girl half my age whom I call doctor and to the boy younger still who is the nurse, in whose hands I place my brother’s life; why didn’t I learn something useful when I had the chance?

These are the kids who went in to medicine because they cared, long after the days when it was the way to make money. I want to hug them, I want to embrace them, I want to thank them. Instead, I just smile wearily. This is what they do every day. The Lord’s work. More power to them.

Please God, let my brother get well. Yours, too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205716,00.html
 
That's a very touching article.

I hope that the conservatives on this board can see that 'the liberals' are human too. That they care about their family, their friends, their loved ones. That really we aren't so different afterall.
 
Of course libs believe in God when their lives are in danger.


Just not when they are fighting for abortion rights or gay rights.
 
theHawk said:
Of course libs believe in God when their lives are in danger.


Just not when they are fighting for abortion rights or gay rights.

I've met few liberals who aren't religious. Some are Christian, some are Buddhist or Hindu, some are Jewish and others Muslim. Some are agnostic or atheist, and they are in the minority. Simply becuase one doesn't believe in God the way you do or don't believe in any God at does not render them spiritually or morally inferior.

I would strongly suggest you examine your own faith. Your statement betrays more than a little insecurity and uncertainty in your own faith. Put your own house in order before you start criticizing others.

As for abortion and gay rights...They are non-issues, unless you're a politician looking to pander to religious zealots of all stripes.
 
Heh..."non-issues", thats probably what the Nazis told themselves about gassing women and children.

Coward.
 
Bullypulpit said:
I've met few liberals who aren't religious. Some are Christian, some are Buddhist or Hindu, some are Jewish and others Muslim. Some are agnostic or atheist, and they are in the minority. Simply becuase one doesn't believe in God the way you do or don't believe in any God at does not render them spiritually or morally inferior.

I would strongly suggest you examine your own faith. Your statement betrays more than a little insecurity and uncertainty in your own faith.
Put your own house in order before you start criticizing others.
As for abortion and gay rights...They are non-issues, unless you're a politician looking to pander to religious zealots of all stripes.

Apparently you house is in order, Bully ?
 
theHawk said:
I wasn't the one that said killing innocent people is a "non-issue". :duh3:

Except that a fertilized egg isn't a "person" except in your own religious judgment which, while you're certainly entitled, you have no right to impose that religious belief on others.

And not having to do with your post, just as an observation with regard to this thread, haven't any of you yet figured out that the whole construct of liberals being "godless" is a fallacy?

Or is it that y'all like the propaganda so much that you enjoy spreading it around? :halo:
 
jillian said:
Except that a fertilized egg isn't a "person" except in your own religious judgment which, while you're certainly entitled, you have no right to impose that religious belief on others.

And not having to do with your post, just as an observation with regard to this thread, haven't any of you yet figured out that the whole construct of liberals being "godless" is a fallacy?

Or is it that y'all like the propaganda so much that you enjoy spreading it around? :halo:

Since when was thinking a fertilized egg is a person a religious belief?
 
dilloduck said:
Since when was thinking a fertilized egg is a person a religious belief?

The determination as to when life begins is always a religious one in this context.

You know anyone who is non-Christian (not all sects, btw) or non-orthodox Jew who would suggest taking away the reproductive choice of the rest of us?
 
jillian said:
The determination as to when life begins is always a religious one in this context.

It certainly is not. Life begins with a fertilized egg. That's simple biology.

You know anyone who is non-Christian (not all sects, btw) or non-orthodox Jew who would suggest taking away the reproductive choice of the rest of us?

Unjustly taking a human life is murder. plain and simple. In our society, it's murder to both the religious and non-religious. The only issue here is attempting to call murder anything and everything but what it is.
 
GunnyL said:
Unjustly taking a human life is murder. plain and simple. In our society, it's murder to both the religious and non-religious. The only issue here is attempting to call murder anything and everything but what it is.

We agree that the taking of life is murder. When life begins is where we disagree. Murder has very specific statutory definitions which do not include in its terms a fertilized egg.
 
jillian said:
We agree that the taking of life is murder. When life begins is where we disagree. Murder has very specific statutory definitions which do not include in its terms a fertilized egg.

But biology DOES include a fertilized egg as the beginning of life.

Not to mention, if you harm a woman's unborn child that causes its death you are charged with murder, so in that regard, the law DOES consider an unborn child a person.

Abortion and all its twisted definitions is just a means of escaping the responsibility of one's actions.
 
Embryonic Stem-Cell(ESC) Research can be viewed as a pre-emptive attack on disease. Living things will die, but those deaths will be much less than the lives that are saved by ESC research.

Many people supported dropping the atom bomb, defending it by saying that ground and sea battles would have cost more lives that the bomb took. Well, ESC research can save more lives than it destroys. And those lives that are saved are living people with thoughts, emotions, and families.
 
GunnyL said:
But biology DOES include a fertilized egg as the beginning of life.

Not to mention, if you harm a woman's unborn child that causes its death you are charged with murder, so in that regard, the law DOES consider an unborn child a person.

Abortion and all its twisted definitions is just a means of escaping the responsibility of one's actions.


You're trying to make an argument from science and from legal precedent, but unfortunately neither support you in this case.

Biological speaking, life does not necessarily begin with a fertilized egg. What bout those species who reproduce asexually? Mitosis? Hmm? The definition of life is very broad... Moreover, the difference between human life and animal life is one that is very thin and narrow. Let me ask you... What makes a human different from an animal?

Legally, there are a few cases where an unborn fetus is considered a person. A few states have passed laws regarding murdering a fetus (when the parent is killed) and can tack on charges thereafter. There is no legal precedent that automatically assumes that a fetus is a person and therefore entitled to legal rights (or else we would not be having this debate).
 
PsuedoGhost said:
You're trying to make an argument from science and from legal precedent, but unfortunately neither support you in this case.

Biological speaking, life does not necessarily begin with a fertilized egg. What bout those species who reproduce asexually? Mitosis? Hmm? The definition of life is very broad... Moreover, the difference between human life and animal life is one that is very thin and narrow. Let me ask you... What makes a human different from an animal?

Legally, there are a few cases where an unborn fetus is considered a person. A few states have passed laws regarding murdering a fetus (when the parent is killed) and can tack on charges thereafter. There is no legal precedent that automatically assumes that a fetus is a person and therefore entitled to legal rights (or else we would not be having this debate).

So to you and liberal jill, you're both purporting that a fertilized egg inside a woman's womb... "is NOT ALIVE"?

Because if it's not, it's DEAD, and we all know that's not the case.
 
theHawk said:
Heh..."non-issues", thats probably what the Nazis told themselves about gassing women and children.

Coward.

Regardless of how hard one might try to equivocate, the medical termination of a first rimester pregnancy is not the equivalent, moral or otherwise, of genocide. That you would even attempt to do so reveals a certain level of moral bankruptcy on your part.
 
dilloduck said:
Apparently you house is in order, Bully ?

More or less...I've had the benefit of meeting, and learning from, some wonderful people of many faiths who walked their faith as they talked it. And I'm sure I'll meet more. It's a continuous learning experience.
 

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