Liberals for wealth redistribution

You are BEYOND stupid. People that make money do not always pay taxes. Or rather due to the tax laws they get all their INCOME TAX payments back. Depends on how much they make, how many dependents they have and what tax programs they qualify for.

It is so amusing to watch you're peckerwood tough-guy Napolean complex ass calling people "Moron" and "Stupid" while spewing blatantly false hyperbole.

Listen to me carefully. Let this sink in.

Everyone pays FICA at 7.65% of wages, which is matched by the employer, on the first $106,800 they earn in wages. Everyone. You don't get this money back via tax returns.

YOU are beyond stupid. YOU are setting off the "Moron alert." YOU have nothing to contribute. You think you're so smart and ahead of the curve, but the nonsense that keeps coming out of your mouth is disruptive. That said, I'd like you to go away now. Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

I employ and never "match" any of my employees FICA. No business ever matches a dam thing.
That is the bull shit con game the government plays with naive Americans that know nothing of economics and business.
When I determine the wage for someone I consider ALL OF the expenses to hire that person.
If I allocate 50K as the total dollar figure for any employee then I have to allocate 8K for their,not MY, health package and another $3200 for their, NOT MY, FICA then the wage for that job is $38,800. Out of that $38,800 they have to pay another $3200 out of their checkfrom the $38,800 yearly salary.
The employee PAYS IT, the entire amount out of their total wage allocated. ALWAYS
That is the real world, not this crazy bull shit the government has you believe.

Gadawg, I am an employer too. The employee has withheld from their check 7.65% in FICA (Medicare and Social Security). With the exception of employees hired this year under the HIRE act (I have one), the employer has to report and pay that 7.65%, and match it with another 7.65%, for the first $106,800.00 of wages.

OK I just re-read and I think I'm beginning to understand what you're saying; You're not questioning the factual basis of what I said, you're just remarking that you have X amount earmarked for that person's employment and, although you match the FICA, it's de facto in lieu of additional wages. Yes I agree. It's really not the basis of the argument I'm having with the Retarded Gynocologist, but yes nothing is for free. It's all in lieu of additional wages.

The point is that every wage earner pays 7.65% of their wages to FICA, which has nothing to do with one's tax return... In fact by your logic, which I happen to agree with, it's about 15%, because the boss could afford to pay that person 7.65% more if not for this requirement. That's the core of my argument; FICA contributions, which are significant, are ignored in the argument that "X amount of people pay no taxes!"
 
We are NOT discussing taxation

the debate is wealth distruibution

that wealth can be taxation, and HOW it's ditributed

that means our governance will most likely have the riens

that said, what is liberal, or socialist about the middle class getting a larger slice of the pie Sarge?

in fact, i've noted over and over in this forum the revulsion of our governance doing just that, granting the larger % of the populace the larger % of any given governmental accolade available

yet the very same sorts seem to have no problem with all that American Pie being dished out for 3rd world sh*tholes, most of which don't seem to either appreciate it, or care at all of our presence

as such, i say save America for Americans first and foremost, and by that i mean the general populace, not wall street CEO's , corporatism , or anything else that has zero allegiance to the USA

One can't save the world if one can't save ones self

~S~
 
It is so amusing to watch you're peckerwood tough-guy Napolean complex ass calling people "Moron" and "Stupid" while spewing blatantly false hyperbole.

Listen to me carefully. Let this sink in.

Everyone pays FICA at 7.65% of wages, which is matched by the employer, on the first $106,800 they earn in wages. Everyone. You don't get this money back via tax returns.

YOU are beyond stupid. YOU are setting off the "Moron alert." YOU have nothing to contribute. You think you're so smart and ahead of the curve, but the nonsense that keeps coming out of your mouth is disruptive. That said, I'd like you to go away now. Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

I employ and never "match" any of my employees FICA. No business ever matches a dam thing.
That is the bull shit con game the government plays with naive Americans that know nothing of economics and business.
When I determine the wage for someone I consider ALL OF the expenses to hire that person.
If I allocate 50K as the total dollar figure for any employee then I have to allocate 8K for their,not MY, health package and another $3200 for their, NOT MY, FICA then the wage for that job is $38,800. Out of that $38,800 they have to pay another $3200 out of their checkfrom the $38,800 yearly salary.
The employee PAYS IT, the entire amount out of their total wage allocated. ALWAYS
That is the real world, not this crazy bull shit the government has you believe.

Gadawg, I am an employer too. The employee has withheld from their check 7.65% in FICA (Medicare and Social Security). With the exception of employees hired this year under the HIRE act (I have one), the employer has to report and pay that 7.65%, and match it with another 7.65%, for the first $106,800.00 of wages.

OK I just re-read and I think I'm beginning to understand what you're saying; You're not questioning the factual basis of what I said, you're just remarking that you have X amount earmarked for that person's employment and, although you match the FICA, it's de facto in lieu of additional wages. Yes I agree. It's really not the basis of the argument I'm having with the Retarded Gynocologist, but yes nothing is for free. It's all in lieu of additional wages.

The point is that every wage earner pays 7.65% of their wages to FICA, which has nothing to do with one's tax return... In fact by your logic, which I happen to agree with, it's about 15%, because the boss could afford to pay that person 7.65% more if not for this requirement. That's the core of my argument; FICA contributions, which are significant, are ignored in the argument that "X amount of people pay no taxes!"

I see your point.
 
We are NOT discussing taxation

the debate is wealth distruibution

that wealth can be taxation, and HOW it's ditributed

that means our governance will most likely have the riens

that said, what is liberal, or socialist about the middle class getting a larger slice of the pie Sarge?

in fact, i've noted over and over in this forum the revulsion of our governance doing just that, granting the larger % of the populace the larger % of any given governmental accolade available

yet the very same sorts seem to have no problem with all that American Pie being dished out for 3rd world sh*tholes, most of which don't seem to either appreciate it, or care at all of our presence

as such, i say save America for Americans first and foremost, and by that i mean the general populace, not wall street CEO's , corporatism , or anything else that has zero allegiance to the USA

One can't save the world if one can't save ones self

~S~

How about passing laws that make the pie BIGGER?
If you want a larger slice of the existing pie, which has been shrunk by government being too large, then work harder to get it.
Why should it be my responsibility to get my family their "fair",whatever the hell fair is, share and also work to give someone else their supposed "fair" share.
Lower government expenses and the pie gets bigger for everyone. Called economic GROWTH.
 
Meister, are you gonna call me an idiot again and agree with RetGySys? In addition to the top 10% having 97% of the tax burden, do you believe that people get their FICA back on their tax returns?

I'm not calling you an idiot, and I did answer your question yesterday. Now there is a thing called Earned Income Credit, which you haven't responded to. hmmmmm?
 
Meister, are you gonna call me an idiot again and agree with RetGySys? In addition to the top 10% having 97% of the tax burden, do you believe that people get their FICA back on their tax returns?

I'm not calling you an idiot, and I did answer your question yesterday. Now there is a thing called Earned Income Credit, which you haven't responded to. hmmmmm?

Well, hadn't realized you asked me directly. I'm generally against any tax breaks that could encourage people to have children they can't afford, including the simple act of writing them off as dependents. But at the same time, when people find themselves in unfortunate situations, the death of or abandonment by a spouse for example, there may be a place for it. There is a place and need in society for poverty reduction, but I just can't get behind efforts that encourage irresponsible child-bearing.

I just read up about EITC on the Wiki, looks like in addition to greater benefits for more children, a disincentive to earn exists between X and Y, as the credit is reduced for a percentage of wages between those plateaus.

Yeah, fair to say I understand the need for poverty reduction, and the benefit thereof to all members of society; But if you're asking for a black and white answer... I'd have to say no, I don't like the program.

[Edit]
That started under Bush, didn't it? Or something similar. I remember in a discussion with someone about the upcoming election (2004) somebody telling me they were planning to vote for Bush because he was giving X amount per child or something. Myself, 22 at the time, I recall being disgusted that he based his vote on something so selfish.
 
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We are NOT discussing taxation

the debate is wealth distruibution

that wealth can be taxation, and HOW it's ditributed

that means our governance will most likely have the riens

that said, what is liberal, or socialist about the middle class getting a larger slice of the pie Sarge?

in fact, i've noted over and over in this forum the revulsion of our governance doing just that, granting the larger % of the populace the larger % of any given governmental accolade available

yet the very same sorts seem to have no problem with all that American Pie being dished out for 3rd world sh*tholes, most of which don't seem to either appreciate it, or care at all of our presence

as such, i say save America for Americans first and foremost, and by that i mean the general populace, not wall street CEO's , corporatism , or anything else that has zero allegiance to the USA

One can't save the world if one can't save ones self

~S~

How about passing laws that make the pie BIGGER?
If you want a larger slice of the existing pie, which has been shrunk by government being too large, then work harder to get it.
Why should it be my responsibility to get my family their "fair",whatever the hell fair is, share and also work to give someone else their supposed "fair" share.
Lower government expenses and the pie gets bigger for everyone. Called economic GROWTH.


When we talk about fiar share, we're talking a lot more than welfare queens here Gadawg

That seems to be a very predominant misconception of that American pie

No, it's what you get for your tax $ , and it's very much in contrast with what the upper echelon gets here, regardless of the smoke & mirror tax game , overwhelming governance aside

What's 'fair' is more the opportunity for the pursuit of happiness, the opportunity to be able to better one's self acedemically, financially, etc

a good benchmark might be today's average lifestyle juxtaosed to the former generations

we had an influx of imigration in this country of sorts seeking just that, a better life for their kids

but look back 30-40 years, and what was your counterpart able to achieve?

now look at your kids, and what have they to look forward to?
 
the debate is wealth distruibution

that wealth can be taxation, and HOW it's ditributed

that means our governance will most likely have the riens

that said, what is liberal, or socialist about the middle class getting a larger slice of the pie Sarge?

in fact, i've noted over and over in this forum the revulsion of our governance doing just that, granting the larger % of the populace the larger % of any given governmental accolade available

yet the very same sorts seem to have no problem with all that American Pie being dished out for 3rd world sh*tholes, most of which don't seem to either appreciate it, or care at all of our presence

as such, i say save America for Americans first and foremost, and by that i mean the general populace, not wall street CEO's , corporatism , or anything else that has zero allegiance to the USA

One can't save the world if one can't save ones self

~S~

How about passing laws that make the pie BIGGER?
If you want a larger slice of the existing pie, which has been shrunk by government being too large, then work harder to get it.
Why should it be my responsibility to get my family their "fair",whatever the hell fair is, share and also work to give someone else their supposed "fair" share.
Lower government expenses and the pie gets bigger for everyone. Called economic GROWTH.


When we talk about fiar share, we're talking a lot more than welfare queens here Gadawg

That seems to be a very predominant misconception of that American pie

No, it's what you get for your tax $ , and it's very much in contrast with what the upper echelon gets here, regardless of the smoke & mirror tax game , overwhelming governance aside

What's 'fair' is more the opportunity for the pursuit of happiness, the opportunity to be able to better one's self acedemically, financially, etc

a good benchmark might be today's average lifestyle juxtaosed to the former generations

we had an influx of imigration in this country of sorts seeking just that, a better life for their kids

but look back 30-40 years, and what was your counterpart able to achieve?

now look at your kids, and what have they to look forward to?

I never look back. Someone might be gaining on me. All 3 of my kids work and attend school, 2 in college.
I learned a long time ago there is only way to prepare for a 6'5", 285 lb. O lineman.
HARD WORK.
 
Dear "Retired Gay Sergeant", if you really are "retired" from the military, you have no "wealth", no, instead, you have a government "pension". Why are you so worried about "rich" people keeping all their money? Are you willing to give up some of your government pension? I'm sure the Republican leadership would appreciate it. After all, unlike Joe Biden, most house Republicans have millions and in many cases, "tens" of millions. And they wrote the tax laws.
 
MORON ALERT. This thread is NOT about taxes. It is about lefties wanting to set a personal wealth liit and allow the Government to seize all money and assets above the line they set.

Once again you fucking dumb ass. the other thread is ALL about TAKING other peoples money NOT taxation. Taking their money and property because they have more then some liberal thins they should have. Setting a Limit of personal private wealth above which the Government confiscates all money and assets for redistribution.

Show me a single bill where anyone has ever proposed a personal wealth limit

Must be easy...show me one

You listen to Glenn Beck too much

Now you try to divert in another way. YOU ARE BEYOND IGNORANT. I linked to the thread in question in the opening post. And my point is people like you think the Government SHOULD establish a limit and seize the funds. I am pointing out that the left thinks it is a good idea for the Government to establish a personal wealth limit and to seize all money and assets above that limit.

FUCKING MORON.

Nonsense

Liberals think nothing of the kind......show me any legislation where this has ever been proposed

You are living in a rightwing fantasy land
 
How about passing laws that make the pie BIGGER?
If you want a larger slice of the existing pie, which has been shrunk by government being too large, then work harder to get it.
Why should it be my responsibility to get my family their "fair",whatever the hell fair is, share and also work to give someone else their supposed "fair" share.
Lower government expenses and the pie gets bigger for everyone. Called economic GROWTH.


When we talk about fiar share, we're talking a lot more than welfare queens here Gadawg

That seems to be a very predominant misconception of that American pie

No, it's what you get for your tax $ , and it's very much in contrast with what the upper echelon gets here, regardless of the smoke & mirror tax game , overwhelming governance aside

What's 'fair' is more the opportunity for the pursuit of happiness, the opportunity to be able to better one's self acedemically, financially, etc

a good benchmark might be today's average lifestyle juxtaosed to the former generations

we had an influx of imigration in this country of sorts seeking just that, a better life for their kids

but look back 30-40 years, and what was your counterpart able to achieve?

now look at your kids, and what have they to look forward to?

I never look back. Someone might be gaining on me. All 3 of my kids work and attend school, 2 in college.
I learned a long time ago there is only way to prepare for a 6'5", 285 lb. O lineman.
HARD WORK.

perhaps a little light reference reading would grant you a tad more HP in your relpys here Gawdag>

Economic inequality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
When we talk about fiar share, we're talking a lot more than welfare queens here Gadawg

That seems to be a very predominant misconception of that American pie

No, it's what you get for your tax $ , and it's very much in contrast with what the upper echelon gets here, regardless of the smoke & mirror tax game , overwhelming governance aside

What's 'fair' is more the opportunity for the pursuit of happiness, the opportunity to be able to better one's self acedemically, financially, etc

a good benchmark might be today's average lifestyle juxtaosed to the former generations

we had an influx of imigration in this country of sorts seeking just that, a better life for their kids

but look back 30-40 years, and what was your counterpart able to achieve?

now look at your kids, and what have they to look forward to?

I never look back. Someone might be gaining on me. All 3 of my kids work and attend school, 2 in college.
I learned a long time ago there is only way to prepare for a 6'5", 285 lb. O lineman.
HARD WORK.

perhaps a little light reference reading would grant you a tad more HP in your relpys here Gawdag>

Economic inequality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Been there, done that, too poor in our family to get the T shirt.
Left that behind through hard work over the last 38 years. Been working full time since the age of 17 in 1972.
Put nickels and dimes together to buy my first home at age 23. Drove old cars and saved for my first piece of land at age 25. Built my dream home at age 27.
Still drive old cars to this day, a 1999 Sienna van with 235K on it and I can afford 2 Bentleys.
I support education and equality for all. I have no prejudices and support rights for all; gays, minorities, whatever.
But you have to earn it as an adult. NO cry babies.
Wham it zero on SET.
 
We are NOT discussing taxation

the debate is wealth distruibution

that wealth can be taxation, and HOW it's ditributed

that means our governance will most likely have the riens

that said, what is liberal, or socialist about the middle class getting a larger slice of the pie Sarge?

in fact, i've noted over and over in this forum the revulsion of our governance doing just that, granting the larger % of the populace the larger % of any given governmental accolade available

yet the very same sorts seem to have no problem with all that American Pie being dished out for 3rd world sh*tholes, most of which don't seem to either appreciate it, or care at all of our presence

as such, i say save America for Americans first and foremost, and by that i mean the general populace, not wall street CEO's , corporatism , or anything else that has zero allegiance to the USA

One can't save the world if one can't save ones self

~S~

How about passing laws that make the pie BIGGER?
If you want a larger slice of the existing pie, which has been shrunk by government being too large, then work harder to get it.
Why should it be my responsibility to get my family their "fair",whatever the hell fair is, share and also work to give someone else their supposed "fair" share.
Lower government expenses and the pie gets bigger for everyone. Called economic GROWTH.

The problem we have seen in the last 30 years is that as that pie has grown the workers real salary has remained the same or decreased while the CEOs and other executives has seen their salary increase tenfold.

Standard or living for middle and lower class is declining....it is not something we should be proud of
 
Show me a single bill where anyone has ever proposed a personal wealth limit

Must be easy...show me one

You listen to Glenn Beck too much

Now you try to divert in another way. YOU ARE BEYOND IGNORANT. I linked to the thread in question in the opening post. And my point is people like you think the Government SHOULD establish a limit and seize the funds. I am pointing out that the left thinks it is a good idea for the Government to establish a personal wealth limit and to seize all money and assets above that limit.

FUCKING MORON.

Nonsense

Liberals think nothing of the kind......show me any legislation where this has ever been proposed

You are living in a rightwing fantasy land

Good god did you READ the other thread? Have you read THIS thread? Ignorant buffoon or liar. I am not sure which. In the other thread they say it plain as day. The US is hurt by rich people and there should be a cap on personal wealth with the Government confiscating all money and assets above what ever limit is set.

There may be no law yet but these people have made it clear they would and do support JUST such a law. Meanwhile you deflect and ignore, and I suspect lie.
 
Now you try to divert in another way. YOU ARE BEYOND IGNORANT. I linked to the thread in question in the opening post. And my point is people like you think the Government SHOULD establish a limit and seize the funds. I am pointing out that the left thinks it is a good idea for the Government to establish a personal wealth limit and to seize all money and assets above that limit.

FUCKING MORON.


Nonsense

Liberals think nothing of the kind......show me any legislation where this has ever been proposed

You are living in a rightwing fantasy land

Good god did you READ the other thread? Have you read THIS thread? Ignorant buffoon or liar. I am not sure which. In the other thread they say it plain as day. The US is hurt by rich people and there should be a cap on personal wealth with the Government confiscating all money and assets above what ever limit is set.

There may be no law yet but these people have made it clear they would and do support JUST such a law. Meanwhile you deflect and ignore, and I suspect lie.


This thread?

In 1973, the top 10% held 49% of wealth; the bottom 90% held 51% of wealth. That means 37 years ago, middle- and lower-class citizens could afford to buy American, shop in small community stores, pay their bills and have savings accounts.

By 2005, the top 10% held 73% of wealth; the bottom 90% held 27% of wealth. That means that middle- and lower-class citizens can now only afford to buy cheap goods from China in giant big box stores that deal in volume, not quality, have difficulty paying their bills and saving at the same time.

What she said is absolutely correct. We have changed the rules to redistribute wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. The rules need to be revised to previous levels.
 
Nonsense

Liberals think nothing of the kind......show me any legislation where this has ever been proposed

You are living in a rightwing fantasy land

Good god did you READ the other thread? Have you read THIS thread? Ignorant buffoon or liar. I am not sure which. In the other thread they say it plain as day. The US is hurt by rich people and there should be a cap on personal wealth with the Government confiscating all money and assets above what ever limit is set.

There may be no law yet but these people have made it clear they would and do support JUST such a law. Meanwhile you deflect and ignore, and I suspect lie.


This thread?

In 1973, the top 10% held 49% of wealth; the bottom 90% held 51% of wealth. That means 37 years ago, middle- and lower-class citizens could afford to buy American, shop in small community stores, pay their bills and have savings accounts.

By 2005, the top 10% held 73% of wealth; the bottom 90% held 27% of wealth. That means that middle- and lower-class citizens can now only afford to buy cheap goods from China in giant big box stores that deal in volume, not quality, have difficulty paying their bills and saving at the same time.

What she said is absolutely correct. We have changed the rules to redistribute wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. The rules need to be revised to previous levels.

And Liberals would do that by setting an arbitrary wealth limit for Private citizens and Corporations and then allowing the Government to seize all money and assets above that arbitrary limit and allowing the Government to determine what to do with said seized fund.
 
Good god did you READ the other thread? Have you read THIS thread? Ignorant buffoon or liar. I am not sure which. In the other thread they say it plain as day. The US is hurt by rich people and there should be a cap on personal wealth with the Government confiscating all money and assets above what ever limit is set.

There may be no law yet but these people have made it clear they would and do support JUST such a law. Meanwhile you deflect and ignore, and I suspect lie.


This thread?

In 1973, the top 10% held 49% of wealth; the bottom 90% held 51% of wealth. That means 37 years ago, middle- and lower-class citizens could afford to buy American, shop in small community stores, pay their bills and have savings accounts.

By 2005, the top 10% held 73% of wealth; the bottom 90% held 27% of wealth. That means that middle- and lower-class citizens can now only afford to buy cheap goods from China in giant big box stores that deal in volume, not quality, have difficulty paying their bills and saving at the same time.

What she said is absolutely correct. We have changed the rules to redistribute wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. The rules need to be revised to previous levels.

And Liberals would do that by setting an arbitrary wealth limit for Private citizens and Corporations and then allowing the Government to seize all money and assets above that arbitrary limit and allowing the Government to determine what to do with said seized fund.

No they wouldn't,

More simplistic rightwing nonsense, We need to return earning power to the middle class. You do that by returning to previous tax rates, ending exemptions and returning labor rules that have been diluted by the conservatives
Do you hand out cash to the middle class like Robin Hood? No
You increase educational opportunities, housing incentives and lowcost healthcare. All which raise the standard of living for working Americans
 
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you can help the middle classs without attacking the upper class.
It's like shooting down a Blimp and trying to pump it up at the same time.

Too often liberals shoot themselves in the foot on economics. I agree with more educational access, less taxes on the working man. Don't reduce the size of the pie and then bitch that there's not a lot left for the less motivated.
 
What is the end game in a flat tax scenario?

Given that we live in a capitalist system?

Well it takes money to make money, doesnt it?

So the inevitable outcome of a FLAT tax system is neo-feudalism.

I can see how such an outcome appeals to those of you who think that you'll end up on top of that heap, of course.

And you weill, too...until the bigger fish eat you alive with the benefit of their superior cash positions, of course.

And that will happen if the FLAT tax many of your proposed went into effect.

Eventually you'd be out bid and out-cashed at every turn and you who are modestly affluent would eventually become peasants.

Your trust that the superweatlhy are somehow less threatening to your freedom than the government already is, is misguided, I think.

Go look at the era of the robber barons, folks.

They are NOT libertarians EXCEPT for themselves.
 
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the debate is wealth distruibution

that wealth can be taxation, and HOW it's ditributed

that means our governance will most likely have the riens

that said, what is liberal, or socialist about the middle class getting a larger slice of the pie Sarge?

in fact, i've noted over and over in this forum the revulsion of our governance doing just that, granting the larger % of the populace the larger % of any given governmental accolade available

yet the very same sorts seem to have no problem with all that American Pie being dished out for 3rd world sh*tholes, most of which don't seem to either appreciate it, or care at all of our presence

as such, i say save America for Americans first and foremost, and by that i mean the general populace, not wall street CEO's , corporatism , or anything else that has zero allegiance to the USA

One can't save the world if one can't save ones self

~S~

How about passing laws that make the pie BIGGER?
If you want a larger slice of the existing pie, which has been shrunk by government being too large, then work harder to get it.
Why should it be my responsibility to get my family their "fair",whatever the hell fair is, share and also work to give someone else their supposed "fair" share.
Lower government expenses and the pie gets bigger for everyone. Called economic GROWTH.

The problem we have seen in the last 30 years is that as that pie has grown the workers real salary has remained the same or decreased while the CEOs and other executives has seen their salary increase tenfold.

Standard or living for middle and lower class is declining....it is not something we should be proud of

I agree with that but we fail to fix the problem. Biggest problem is we graduatetoo many with degrees
in things there are no jobs for whileour engineering and math graduates are too few.
We are a health care provider economy for the "I got mine and do not want anyone else to get any" society.
With the deficit at 50K per person now every American that gets any kind of government check, whether they earned it or not, has to take a hit. Social security and Medicare to start, defense the last. No one that has served shouyld take a financial hit but at somepoint we have to cut the nealth benefits for NON combat or service related illnesses of vets.
My point is if you want a bigger slice of the pie work2 jobs. In my 2os I worked THREE JOBS at one point and went to school.Of course the 3 jobs were part time.
 

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