Liberal to conservative

[FistyTheBadger]

you misunderstood me. IMO, breaking a post up into paragraphs with appropriate spacing makes it more readable annd thus more likely to be read.

i apologize if you took it as a criticism of you personally; that was not my intent.

board policy is to say what you want, barring obvious exceptions (threats, etc).

please make yourself at home.

If you say that again, I will bake you a birthday cake.

that again.

You will get your birthday cake in the mail. You just had to say it, just had to push it.

 

[del]

If you say that again, I will bake you a birthday cake.

that again.

You will get your birthday cake in the mail. You just had to say it, just had to push it.

chocolate cake, whipped cream frosting, sept. 3 deadline.

thanks fisty

 

[FistyTheBadger]

that again.

You will get your birthday cake in the mail. You just had to say it, just had to push it.

chocolate cake, whipped cream frosting, sept. 3 deadline.

thanks fisty

You will get the cake I give you.



And it is going to be chocolate, with whipped cream frosting. :/

 

[del]

You will get your birthday cake in the mail. You just had to say it, just had to push it.

chocolate cake, whipped cream frosting, sept. 3 deadline.

thanks fisty

You will get the cake I give you.



And it is going to be chocolate, with whipped cream frosting. :/

i'll supply the candle

 

[FistyTheBadger]

chocolate cake, whipped cream frosting, sept. 3 deadline.

thanks fisty

You will get the cake I give you.



And it is going to be chocolate, with whipped cream frosting. :/

i'll supply the candle

You better, because if you don't your cake...won't have...a candle!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

you're as idiotic as you signature is juvenile.

fuk off you wingnut loser.

Well even for spam, that's pretty lame... you're losing your troll mojo Dull-Ni'l...

I'm sorry ...

Indeed... about as sorry a human being as I've come across lately...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Publius, The first problem I had with the conservatives was their take on the intent of the Founders. I was a volunteer for the GOP for several years, and the Constitution was a favorite topic among the local GOP officials in my area. They often talked with us about the intended meaning, yet they only referenced the Constitution itself. Once I actually bothered to read other sources such as the Federalist Papers and correspondence between the people involved in government during Revolutionary times, I realized that my take on what they were saying didn't jibe with what the conservatives were telling me. I felt that their interpretation was based less upon the intent of the Founders and more upon wishful thinking. I also had a serious problem with some of the state issues that were being pushed at the time. The conservatives here preached about self-determination, yet at the same time were campaigning in favor of issues which I felt directly opposed self-determination,such as the removal of local control of school boards to the state, mandatory insurance laws which deprived individuals of choice, drunk driving check lanes on public roads( which may sound good at first ,but in reality are nothing but an imposition on citizens who have done nothing wrong and had no reason to be stopped). The conservatives at that time also campaigned against the Dems here by calling the Dems "statist"(which in my opinion they were). When the GOP won here, they implemented all of those policies. They also raised 138 seperate taxes in this state within 8 months, but they passed a minimal reduction in the income tax(0.02% decrease).They were guilty of being statist because they obviously defined the right of self-determination as being centered in the state by their actions. Then they started campaigning as tax cutters because they lowered one tax. Another problem for me was the "Hillarycare" debacle. I disliked the plan as much as the conservatives did, but I disagreed with their reasoning. Their position was that since the Constitution doesn't mention healthcare as a right, then the Founders must not have intended for it to be a right. Two points on that. First, by that reasoning the AirForce is un-constitutional(which it is clearly not).Second, of course the Founders didn't mention it. During their time medical science and the health care industry were practically non-existent by our standard. Their talking points sounded great, but their actions left much to be desired in my opinion, which is the only opinion that counts as far as my beliefs are concerned. Now, I know we're not supposed to reference other threads, but I want you to know that I'm familiar with your work. So, in closing, I know that I didn't know every conservative in the country. I can only go by what I have personally experienced, so my local experience is valid. The GOP in my state at the time I worked with them(1992-1998) self-identified themselves as "conservative", so don't attempt to draw the distinction between conservative and GOP. I also object to you labeling me as a leftie. I am not. I just disagree with conservatives in this country, I also disagree with the vast majority of people in both major Parties. How nice of you to inaccurately define my position and then make your argument against said incorrectly defined position. You asked for clarification, you got clarification. If that's not enough for you and you want to play the name calling/insult game that you are so obviously fond of, go play with DevNell. I won't play that game with you. One more thing, If the GOP wants my vote, they have to give me a reason to vote for them. It's not my fault that they've done a piss poor job.

Hey... That you were able to build that response is a shocker in and of itself... and that ya did is to your credit.

You spoke to your observations wherein the Michigan GOP misinterpreted the Constitution and ya based that upon your reading of the Federalist papers and other correspondence of the Founders... but ya didn't specify the relevant issues; for instance, what were the specific failures in reasoning of the MI GOP and what in your source material lead ya to that conclusion?

Now with regard to the 90s GOP push, I happened to have lived in MI in the 90s for a few years while working a fiber contract for Comcast; and I well recall those debates and the substantial cuts in MI taxes which resulted from that push... property taxes, for instance, were slashed dramatically... which resulted in a period of economic prosperity for MI. So I will take issue with you on that one...

With regard to healthcare... your inalienable rights come with inherent responsibility; and that responsibility is to exercise your rights without infringing upon the rights of others to exercise their rights. While you have a perfect right to be treated, you do not have a right to confiscate the product of another's labor to subsidize your need for treatment... Hillary-care confiscated the product of one individual's labor, to subsidize the need of another. Some erroneously misconstrue a constitutional basis of such confiscation in the 'general welfare' clause... the problem is that healthcare is not a function of generality... it is exceedingly SPECIFIC.

This is NOT equitable to 'the common defense...' referenced by your trying to equate the US establishment of the Army Air Corp (which eventually morphed into a separate and distinct branch unto itself) with healthcare... The US Constitution mandates that the US Federal government provide for the common defense of the united states... that Air Force serves to protect all Americans equally...

You have a right to seek treatment and a right to BE treated... you do NOT have a right to require someone else pay for your treatment, nor do you have a right to dictate what someone can charge to treat you. Hillary-Care sought to do just that... You have a right to choose what doctor will treat you; basing your decision on what ever priorities you've established, from Price to historical experience... Hillary Care would have usurped your means to exercise that right...

To be perfectly honest, I seriously doubt that you read the Federalist Papers... or much else in the way of original source material... I suspect that your source was one of any number of radical leftist disinformation websites, which typically sources out of context segments of founding source material and misrepresents the intent of the authors to comply with their political ends... Now I'm basing that upon your stated reasoning and it being directly in step with the spurious pap common to such sources.

You have shown no sense of understanding what rights are... or the responsibilities inherent in those rights... you base your views of free-for-me-healthcare and the absence of a mention of such in the Bill of Rights on some technological inadequacy at the time of the US Founding, wholly oblivious to the FACT that the Bill of Rights does not give ANYONE ANY RIGHTS... it merely provides for specific LIMITATIONS UPON THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT TO INFRINGE UPON OR USURP THE MEANS OF THE INDIVIDUAL TO EXERCISE THEIR PRE-EXISTING RIGHTS; had you actually read original source material you'd know that... and understand the immutable reasoning on which it rests.

Let there be no mistake sport... you're a leftist and you'd be a leftist IF you were running the GOP... instead of just running it down. That assessment is founded upon your own writing and the reasoning is laid out above... a point I note to discredit the asserted distraction that assessing your ideological roots as being well to the left is merely a function of divisive, hate based 'name-callin'...'

But I will say that I am SHOCKED that ya managed to put that response together and that ya did is to your credit... and I say that with all due respect... I'd say that the effort alone is a fair sign that ya have the potential to become an American some day; if you'll just take the time to actually read that founding source material; learning and eventually adhering to the bed-rock principles; which can only lead to rejecting the specious drivel common to the ideological left...

You live in a state which is controlled all BUT completely by the ideological left and HAS been for at LEAST 50 years... Michigan is BANKRUPT... it is an economic CATASTROPHE... and 100% of that disaster lies under decades of leftist policy failures, OKA: Leftist policy.

And finally… Dull-ni’l is an imbecile… She does the best she can God bless’er, but on the whole she’s just about as smart as a bag of hammers. If it makes ya feel any better; I will tell you that in my ever so humble opinion, intellectually speaking Dull-ni’l isn’t sufficiently equipped to hold your key-board. But she could be trained, given sufficient time; I just happen to own her, so if you want to try, I’ll send ‘er your way…

 

[michiganFats]

Publius, I've already covered all of this. If you didn't understand what you read, then all I can suggest is that perhaps you should consider attending an English as a Second Language class.Every community has one, and they are free. Check it out. I know you pos rep'd me on the ATF thread, and I thank you for that, but I'm not going to play this game with you. If you seek straw men and infinite loops, look no further than DevNell. Good Night, and Good Luck.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Publius, I've already covered all of this. If you didn't understand what you read, then all I can suggest is that perhaps you should consider attending an English as a Second Language class.Every community has one, and they are free. Check it out. I know you pos rep'd me on the ATF thread, and I thank you for that, but I'm not going to play this game with you. If you seek straw men and infinite loops, look no further than DevNell. Good Night, and Good Luck.

I understood everyword and I gave you my full and unbiased opinion... Just because you're a leftist, doesn't mean we're gonna disagree on everything; hells bells man, even a blind nut finds a squirrel now and then...

Now if you have a specific point of contention ya'd like to address regarding my assessment, feel free to post it and we'll take 'em as they come... but don't pretend that your response was somehow misinterpreted or your effort otherwise dismissed, or that you're being mistreated.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

Many of my friends of my age (young) are indulging in drink, dope, sex before marriage, debauchery and wildness. Don't get me wrong - up until about a year ago I was doing the same.

Then I had a change of heart and a change of mind.

I realised, over time, that liberalism leads to a free-for-all, a life that promises absolute freedom but which, in reality, leads to destruction. All the things above taste good for a time but ultimately people who indulge in them will come to grief. You can see it happening, sometimes even before your eyes.

I turned back to the faith last year (a faith I'd been brough up with, but turned away from in my madness) and it helped me re-learn my self-discipline and control. It's the only way forward, and without those things you can achieve nothing.

I realised that religious conservative values are the only ones on which an individual or a nation can build a future. The values on which the only promise of a stable future lives. Marriage, family, monogamy - how can we have a proper life it we don't abide by those standards?

And I've been a lot happier since embracing those values, even though some of my friends think it's strange at my age. I don't care what they think. This is the way for me and, I believe, for most rational thinking people.

Hope people agree.

I think this is the worst thing I've ever read and exactly why I can't stand the Religious Right. You are so fucking convinced that you are the only one's with values cause you're fucking Religious? I'd much rather meet your friends then you and my weeks are very low key.


For most rational people? You believe the world started 6500 years ago and you call that rational? There is nothing about Organized Religion that is rational

 

[WillowTree]

Many of my friends of my age (young) are indulging in drink, dope, sex before marriage, debauchery and wildness. Don't get me wrong - up until about a year ago I was doing the same.

Then I had a change of heart and a change of mind.

I realised, over time, that liberalism leads to a free-for-all, a life that promises absolute freedom but which, in reality, leads to destruction. All the things above taste good for a time but ultimately people who indulge in them will come to grief. You can see it happening, sometimes even before your eyes.

I turned back to the faith last year (a faith I'd been brough up with, but turned away from in my madness) and it helped me re-learn my self-discipline and control. It's the only way forward, and without those things you can achieve nothing.

I realised that religious conservative values are the only ones on which an individual or a nation can build a future. The values on which the only promise of a stable future lives. Marriage, family, monogamy - how can we have a proper life it we don't abide by those standards?

And I've been a lot happier since embracing those values, even though some of my friends think it's strange at my age. I don't care what they think. This is the way for me and, I believe, for most rational thinking people.

Hope people agree.

I think this is the worst thing I've ever read and exactly why I can't stand the Religious Right. You are so fucking convinced that you are the only one's with values cause you're fucking Religious? I'd much rather meet your friends then you and my weeks are very low key.


For most rational people? You believe the world started 6500 years ago and you call that rational? There is nothing about Organized Religion that is rational

I have never in my life ever met anyone who believe the earth is 6500 years old. Have you? Organized religion teaches no such thing. Where do you get that shit from? The arth last I read on it is 4.5 Billion with a B years old.

 

[jillian]

Who cares if someone is into drugs, sex and debauchery?

It is not anyone's business what someone else does as long as no one's rights are being violated.
And really who are you to judge?

And the government should certainly not be allowed to even consider meddling in the private lives of citizens.

No, it dosen't concern us in the least. Except we have to pay for their abortions, their medical care, their rehabilitation.. it creates huge issues within law enforcement. so no, it's really not our business.

And we have to pay for the medical care and rehabilitation and law enforcement of those who are NOT libertines, too.

What's your point?

Not to mention welfare payments to the fourteen year old mommies who won't ever be self-supporting because they won't ever be educated and trained to do anything.



You also don't really believe that the OP was written by some young kid who is suddenly offended by "debauchery", right?

 

[editec]

No, it dosen't concern us in the least. Except we have to pay for their abortions, their medical care, their rehabilitation.. it creates huge issues within law enforcement. so no, it's really not our business.

And we have to pay for the medical care and rehabilitation and law enforcement of those who are NOT libertines, too.

What's your point?

Not to mention welfare payments to the fourteen year old mommies who won't ever be self-supporting because they won't ever be educated and trained to do anything.



You also don't really believe that the OP was written by some young kid who is suddenly offended by "debauchery", right?

It easily could have been.

It showed about that level of thinking that we find in 14 year olds.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Well even for spam, that's pretty lame... you're losing your troll mojo Dull-Ni'l...

I'm sorry ...

Indeed... about as sorry a human being as I've come across lately...

so says Pubicus Infesticum