Liberal politics are a lose-lose situation

[Truthmatters]

Do not presume to know what I choose to do, or not do, in the name of charity. It makes you look hysterical.

You do NOT have the right to rob me for the sake of YOUR charitable choices. That does not make you a good Christian. It merely makes you a good THIEF.Its called democracy, if the majority votes to feed our poor and you would rather they starve then you just lost the vote and it is not theft. You can move to some country that doesnt want to feed its poor. YOU DO NOT GET TO DEMAND WE LET THEM STARVE. You either like democracy or you dont. If you call democracy theft then fucking leave and find yourself a non democracy to live in.
The fucking federal government has no business engaging in "charity". There's no enumerated power for it to do so. Social welfare should come at the state level in whatever amounts the States choose to provide it. And if the federal government would stop robbing us all blind, maybe the States might be able to collect a little themselves to run their budgets on.

You dont get to determine the constitution all by your self.

This country has already decided we can feed the poor if we decide to so fuck off and move to some place where the poor are allowed to starve and you can rest easy.

Piss off, nutter.

YOU do not have a right to rob people based on your warped view of "democracy". We DO have a U.S. Constitution, and there's nothing in it which allows your representative idiots in Congress to simply vote for whatever the fuck they want. Democracy is confined to the framework of Republican governance. Congress must operate within the guidelines of it's enumerated power.
This is decided law and your interpitation of the constitution lost. Its you who pretend you get to decide what it means and are out of line with our laws. Your wrong and you lost.
You know... you spend alot of time on a political board for someone who never manages to display any accumulated knowledge for having had the experience. I can't imagine that no one's told you that Congress can't just do whatever it wants.

You dont own the USA government all the people do. They agreed with me and not you.

 

[Bfgrn]

Selfishness ISN'T subjective. Is it an 'immoral ideology' to care about other people? Did Jesus preach caring about others was an 'immoral ideology'?

This appears to me as a classic example of the axiom, 'It takes one to know one' ... the truth is YOU don't give a rat's ass about "people", so you need to justify YOUR 'immoral ideology' as being acceptable. It ISN'T, in God's eyes...

Nobody says that YOU can't care about people, or that YOU can't engage in Christian charity. You just don't have the right to make economic slaves of productive U.S. citizens in order to accomplish YOUR charitable goals. So.. yeah. It's fucking immoral.

At the state and local level, it is perfectly alright for citizens to democratically elect to engage in social welfare. But that is NOT the role of federal government. And that's the part that you fascists just can't seem to accept. Because you want the power to control people from the top down. And THAT is likewise immoral. It's tyranny, because it's outside the authority of Constitutional law.



Oh... and you don't know me. You don't know what I do, or what I do not do, in terms of charity. So... fuck off. You sputtering on about "selfishness" isn't likely to impress me or guilt me into agreement with your whacko ideology.

So in your opinion, Jesus was a whacko...well, you have a right to your opinion.

Let's discuss a topic you are hot on...'personal responsibility'

WHOM does 'personal responsibility' apply to?

 

[rdean]

I see now why leftists are so angry and bitter all the time. Their ideology is a guaranteed loss. How? Let me explain.

If the right wins in elections or talking points, the left loses. Thats a loss. Easy enough.

But if the left wins? Well, we are seeing time and time again throughout society where socialism and communism have failed. The entitlement lifestyle always fails. Greece is a perfect example. The USSR. North Korea. Cuba. Venezuela. If Canada had to spend money on national defense, they'd be in trouble to. Luckily, they got us. But, Spain is in trouble. England is in trouble. Germany is in trouble. All the socialist and communist states have failed or are failing.

So, if the left wins this culture war, all of the lefties will eventually end up rioting in the streets because they lost their benefits or free food or free rent or whatever. Whats the saying? "Eventually you run out of other people's money."?

So, the lefties know they've latched onto a failed philosophy. So, win or lose, they end up losing either way.

And before some bitter, whining lefties start crying "OH YEAH well how has that capitalism worked out for America, huh?"

It's worked out so good, our poor have obesity problems. So good, our minority black population would be the 5th richest nation on Earth if counted seperately. So good our "poor" on average own 2 cars, a color TV, fridge, washer and dryer, have air conditioning, microwave, cell phone, and get subsidized food, shelter and education.

Sorry lefties. If you beat us in this ideological battle, well, we're all gonna lose and end up like Greece one day. But if we win, well, we'll keep erecting crosses over top of our Wal-Marts and driving pickup trucks, while you still lose. Either way, you lose!

Win/lose? I guess it all depends on what the ultimate reward is...

Luke 16:13-15…

[13] No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon (money)

[14] The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.

[15] He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

Jesus, protect us from your followers.

 

[rdean]

Conservatives do not seem to realize the only reason they can express themselves as conservatives is because of liberalism. Conservatism has never done a single thing that helped humankind. I have asked repeatedly for something good C has done and have never received an answer. Why, because conservatism is simply reactionary politics. Conservatism is the sponges that lives off those who make progress. Imagine a conservative world? You can not because they have throughout history opposed change, and moralized their own position in a society they could not and cannot create. Arguing with them is useless as their knowledge of history and progress is nil, their ideas come from other conservative sponges who live in a world of liberal politics and liberal society. They need to blame liberals because if they ever turned the mirror on themselves they may just realize their ideas are empty when not detrimental.

If you doubt this consider what happened under Coolidge/ Hoover and Reagan/ Bushs - a destruction of the middle class and the economy. Then consider FDR or LBJ's advancement of society and civil rights - while not perfect it demonstrates clearly conservatism has been a complete failure.

Republican and Conservative scientists would disagree. Both of them.

 

[Murf76]

Clearly true.

You, for example, have apparently forgotten that Saddam was NOT sitting on a big pile of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons.



As long as you're still deluding yourself that there is going to be a difference between how the Republicans would have dealt with this meltdown, and how Obama is dealing with it, there is no hope we'll every solve the problem.

Have you forgotten that BUSH II started the stimulus programs?

Apparently you have.

McCain would be doing essantially the same damned thing if he was POTUS.

I already addressed the fact that the WMD wasn't found. But short of a fucking crystal ball, and given the intelligence at the time... it was believed that there was. How many times have you morons hashed this same question out on this board. This can't be a new question.

It's just the usual pathetic deflection, taken up on every thread, because you suck on it like a bunch of babies with a common pacifier whenever you find a given topic difficult. The Iraq War happened. Deal with it.


Obama has done nothing but make the whole situation worse. Yeah, we all know that Bush started the TARP.
But that doesn't excuse the Communist-In-Chief from doing everything he can think of doing to be a hindrance to economic recovery.

Cap-n-Tax, Obamacare, Card Check, higher taxes... that's Obama. And from an employer's standpoint, why would you hire a new employee when it would be more cost effective to go ahead and ADOPT HIM?

That's all you idiots have.... excuses and deflections. And all designed to try to get us all to stand still while you rob us of our Liberty, our dignity, and our money.

 

[JScott]

I see now why leftists are so angry and bitter all the time. Their ideology is a guaranteed loss. How? Let me explain.

If the right wins in elections or talking points, the left loses. Thats a loss. Easy enough.

But if the left wins? Well, we are seeing time and time again throughout society where socialism and communism have failed. The entitlement lifestyle always fails. Greece is a perfect example. The USSR. North Korea. Cuba. Venezuela. If Canada had to spend money on national defense, they'd be in trouble to. Luckily, they got us. But, Spain is in trouble. England is in trouble. Germany is in trouble. All the socialist and communist states have failed or are failing.

So, if the left wins this culture war, all of the lefties will eventually end up rioting in the streets because they lost their benefits or free food or free rent or whatever. Whats the saying? "Eventually you run out of other people's money."?

So, the lefties know they've latched onto a failed philosophy. So, win or lose, they end up losing either way.

And before some bitter, whining lefties start crying "OH YEAH well how has that capitalism worked out for America, huh?"

It's worked out so good, our poor have obesity problems. So good, our minority black population would be the 5th richest nation on Earth if counted seperately. So good our "poor" on average own 2 cars, a color TV, fridge, washer and dryer, have air conditioning, microwave, cell phone, and get subsidized food, shelter and education.

Sorry lefties. If you beat us in this ideological battle, well, we're all gonna lose and end up like Greece one day. But if we win, well, we'll keep erecting crosses over top of our Wal-Marts and driving pickup trucks, while you still lose. Either way, you lose!

You have no links to back up what your saying. Why not?

 

[JScott]

come to think of it the lefites have been whining and bitching pretty much non stop since they "won, sit down and stfu, let the adults run the show, did you know we won, you are irrelevant white people" election. just saying.

I know what youre trying to say............

 

[Murf76]

Conservatives do not seem to realize the only reason they can express themselves as conservatives is because of liberalism. Conservatism has never done a single thing that helped humankind. I have asked repeatedly for something good C has done and have never received an answer. Why, because conservatism is simply reactionary politics. Conservatism is the sponges that lives off those who make progress. Imagine a conservative world? You can not because they have throughout history opposed change, and moralized their own position in a society they could not and cannot create. Arguing with them is useless as their knowledge of history and progress is nil, their ideas come from other conservative sponges who live in a world of liberal politics and liberal society. They need to blame liberals because if they ever turned the mirror on themselves they may just realize their ideas are empty when not detrimental.

If you doubt this consider what happened under Coolidge/ Hoover and Reagan/ Bushs - a destruction of the middle class and the economy. Then consider FDR or LBJ's advancement of society and civil rights - while not perfect it demonstrates clearly conservatism has been a complete failure.

Modern Liberalism has nothing to do with Classical Liberalism. Modern Liberalism is all about Progressivism... which is all about Fascism.

 

[Murf76]

So in your opinion, Jesus was a whacko...well, you have a right to your opinion.

Let's discuss a topic you are hot on...'personal responsibility'

WHOM does 'personal responsibility' apply to?

Hey, newsflash for ya... YOU are not Jesus.

And I fail to see what "personal responsibility" has to do with robbing people.

 

[Bfgrn]

Conservatives do not seem to realize the only reason they can express themselves as conservatives is because of liberalism. Conservatism has never done a single thing that helped humankind. I have asked repeatedly for something good C has done and have never received an answer. Why, because conservatism is simply reactionary politics. Conservatism is the sponges that lives off those who make progress. Imagine a conservative world? You can not because they have throughout history opposed change, and moralized their own position in a society they could not and cannot create. Arguing with them is useless as their knowledge of history and progress is nil, their ideas come from other conservative sponges who live in a world of liberal politics and liberal society. They need to blame liberals because if they ever turned the mirror on themselves they may just realize their ideas are empty when not detrimental.

If you doubt this consider what happened under Coolidge/ Hoover and Reagan/ Bushs - a destruction of the middle class and the economy. Then consider FDR or LBJ's advancement of society and civil rights - while not perfect it demonstrates clearly conservatism has been a complete failure.

Modern Liberalism has nothing to do with Classical Liberalism. Modern Liberalism is all about Progressivism... which is all about Fascism.

Spoken like a devout Beckerhead...

Glenn Beck's conspiracy theories about Christian social justice, since Communists and Nazis both used the words "social" and "justice," sometimes even together, the phrase must be bad along with other words they used a lot like...the, and, one, thank you, please, today, tonight, and tomorrow

 

[Truthmatters]

Conservatives do not seem to realize the only reason they can express themselves as conservatives is because of liberalism. Conservatism has never done a single thing that helped humankind. I have asked repeatedly for something good C has done and have never received an answer. Why, because conservatism is simply reactionary politics. Conservatism is the sponges that lives off those who make progress. Imagine a conservative world? You can not because they have throughout history opposed change, and moralized their own position in a society they could not and cannot create. Arguing with them is useless as their knowledge of history and progress is nil, their ideas come from other conservative sponges who live in a world of liberal politics and liberal society. They need to blame liberals because if they ever turned the mirror on themselves they may just realize their ideas are empty when not detrimental.

If you doubt this consider what happened under Coolidge/ Hoover and Reagan/ Bushs - a destruction of the middle class and the economy. Then consider FDR or LBJ's advancement of society and civil rights - while not perfect it demonstrates clearly conservatism has been a complete failure.

Modern Liberalism has nothing to do with Classical Liberalism. Modern Liberalism is all about Progressivism... which is all about Fascism.

You cant really be so stupid as to really believe that can you?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I'm thankful and grateful to live in a country where the poorest among us can be fat and have stuff.

But they're not going to be able to stay fat and have stuff when the money is gone, are they?
Once you've destroyed our capitalist system, the money dries up.

See... that's the difference between socialists and capitalists. Socialists figure that there's only so much pie and everyone should have a little slice. Capitalists understand that we can always make more pie.

....And, have a pocket-full o' credit-card receipt$ to PROVE it!!!



Yeah....there're all kinds o' perkswith GLUTTONY.

 

[Bfgrn]

So in your opinion, Jesus was a whacko...well, you have a right to your opinion.

Let's discuss a topic you are hot on...'personal responsibility'

WHOM does 'personal responsibility' apply to?

Hey, newsflash for ya... YOU are not Jesus.

And I fail to see what "personal responsibility" has to do with robbing people.

Of course you fail to see what "personal responsibility" has to do with robbing people. Because your value system doesn't include people.

Here's a hypothetical...If I filled the swimming pool in my back with PCB's and carcinogens instead of chlorine and algaecide, then allowed the kids in the neighborhood to swim in it, WHAT do you think would happen to me if their parents found out?

 

[Murf76]

Spoken like a devout Beckerhead...

Glenn Beck's conspiracy theories about Christian social justice, since Communists and Nazis both used the words "social" and "justice," sometimes even together, the phrase must be bad along with other words they used a lot like...the, and, one, thank you, please, today, tonight, and tomorrow

Hey... Glenn Beck didn't make YOU a fascist. You chose it for yourself.

Free will. Ain't it great?! Woo hoo!!!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Bucky..... The way I see it..it is people like you that depend on socialism more than any other group of americans.

The anger and the words you own suggest you live way out in the wilderness in a stone house next to a pure water spring with plentiful nutricious food at your doorstep. You must be blessed with excellent heath and being a man will never suffer childbirth.

You obviously do not need any other people in your life. Except to whine to..of course.

Lucky you.

Most of the rest of America does not share your idylic life.

We unlike you frequently need to travel safely and reasonably quickly on the socialist highways. It beats blazing trails with a machete when we need to go somewhere. We do not live free from the threat of fire like youself and must all chip in for a fire department.

We do not have your beautiful sparkling spring so we must build and maintain resevoirs then pipe the water to our homes. We had to pay for this luxury.

I could go on and on but you still might not get it... In fact...never mind.....it is another day in america and you just aren't worth saving.

Damn!!!

A REALIST!!!! (How unique....in this day-and-age!!!)​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I see now why leftists are so angry and bitter all the time. Their ideology is a guaranteed loss. How? Let me explain.

If the right wins in elections or talking points, the left loses. Thats a loss. Easy enough.

But if the left wins? Well, we are seeing time and time again throughout society where socialism and communism have failed. The entitlement lifestyle always fails. Greece is a perfect example. The USSR. North Korea. Cuba. Venezuela. If Canada had to spend money on national defense, they'd be in trouble to. Luckily, they got us. But, Spain is in trouble. England is in trouble. Germany is in trouble. All the socialist and communist states have failed or are failing.

So, if the left wins this culture war, all of the lefties will eventually end up rioting in the streets because they lost their benefits or free food or free rent or whatever. Whats the saying? "Eventually you run out of other people's money."?

So, the lefties know they've latched onto a failed philosophy. So, win or lose, they end up losing either way.

And before some bitter, whining lefties start crying "OH YEAH well how has that capitalism worked out for America, huh?"

It's worked out so good, our poor have obesity problems. So good, our minority black population would be the 5th richest nation on Earth if counted seperately. So good our "poor" on average own 2 cars, a color TV, fridge, washer and dryer, have air conditioning, microwave, cell phone, and get subsidized food, shelter and education.

Sorry lefties. If you beat us in this ideological battle, well, we're all gonna lose and end up like Greece one day. But if we win, well, we'll keep erecting crosses over top of our Wal-Marts and driving pickup trucks, while you still lose. Either way, you lose!

Ah but if only it were only as simple a world as you imagine it to be.

How easily we could solve our problems if that were the case.

But it IS simple for the right...as long as human beings evaporate, especially all those 'lazy' dependents... children, elderly and the disabled...

60000 Reichsmarks ...
this is what this person suffering from hereditary defects costs the Community of Germans during his lifetime ...
Fellow Citizen, that is your money, too​

You forgot the soundtrack.....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai_bOYJLwYs]YouTube - Germany national anthem.(1936)[/ame]​

 

[Murf76]

You cant really be so stupid as to really believe that can you?

Look it up. It's easy enough information to find. Hell, you can even find that much at Wiki.

Here... I'll get you started:

Classical liberalism is a political ideology that developed in the 19th century in England, Western Europe, and the Americas. It is committed to the ideal of limited government and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.

(more....)
Classical liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Murf76]

Of course you fail to see what "personal responsibility" has to do with robbing people. Because your value system doesn't include people.

Here's a hypothetical...If I filled the swimming pool in my back with PCB's and carcinogens instead of chlorine and algaecide, then allowed the kids in the neighborhood to swim in it, WHAT do you think would happen to me if their parents found out?

You're just embarrassing yourself now.

Unalienable rights are those which do not impede the rights of others. You don't have a right to poison people no matter whose property you're on.
This is the basis of Liberty. Do as you please, just so long as you're not hurting anybody else in the exercise of your own pursuits.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

But they're not going to be able to stay fat and have stuff when the money is gone, are they?
Once you've destroyed our capitalist system, the money dries up.

See... that's the difference between socialists and capitalists. Socialists figure that there's only so much pie and everyone should have a little slice. Capitalists understand that we can always make more pie.

So you're in favor of the poor living like animals the way they do in third-world shit holes.

No thanks, you go live in your conservative utopia, I'll stick with what we have right here.

God Bless America!]

Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it?

Let me simplify... you can't fund any programs to help the poor when you have NO MONEY.

Yeah....that's the problem with programs (for people of lesser-means). There's no money....

 

[NYcarbineer]

Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it?

Let me simplify... you can't fund any programs to help the poor when you have NO MONEY. No capitalism = No money.

Save it for St Peter...I'm sure He is a 'capitalist'...

When you are in the political world, you have decisions to make every single day about who you will try to help and who you won't. In spite of the earnest quest of good technocrats everywhere, the simple fact is that there are only a few win-win solutions. Who you tax, who you give a tax break to, what programs you cut or add to, who you tighten regulations on, and who you loosen them on, what kind of contractors are eligible for government work, which school districts and non-profit groups get federal money, etc: these political decisions are generally not win-win. Instead, they mean that one group of people win, and one group of people loses. It is the nature of politics, and you can't take the politics out of politics.

The most fundamental difference between progressives and conservatives is that question of which side you are on. Conservatives believe that the rich and powerful got that way because they deserve to be, that society owes its prosperity to the prosperous, and that government's job when they have to make choices is to side with those businesspeople who are doing well, because all good things trickle down from them. Progressives, on the other hand, believe it is the poor and those who are ill-treated who need the most help from their government, and that prosperity comes from all of us -- the worker as well as the employer, the consumer as well as the seller, the struggling entrepreneur trying to make it as well as the wealthy who already have.

Jesus' main concern in terms of the people whose fates he cared about was for the poor, the oppressed, and the outcast. Comment after comment and story after story in the Gospels about Jesus relates to the treatment of the poor, generosity to those in need, mercy to the outcast, and scorn for the wealthy and powerful. And his philosophy is embedded with the central importance of taking care of others, loving others, treating others as you would want to be treated. There is no virtue of selfishness here, there is no "greed is good," there is no invisible hand of the market or looking out for Number One first. There is nothing about poor people being lazy, nothing about the undeserving poor being leeches on society, nothing about how I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps so everyone else should, too. There is nothing about how in nature, "the lions eat the weak," and therefore we shouldn't help the poor because it weakens them. There is nothing about charity or welfare corrupting a person's spirit.

What there is: quote after quote about compassion for the poor. In Jesus' very first sermon of his ministry, the place where he launched his public career, he stated the reason he had come: to bring good news to the poor, liberty to the captives, to help the oppressed go free, and that he was here to proclaim a year of favor from the Lord -- which in Jewish tradition meant the year that poor debtors were forgiven their debts to bankers and the wealthy. In Luke 6, Jesus says the poor and hungry will be blessed, and the rich will be cursed. He urges his followers to sell all their possessions and give them to the poor. The one time he really focuses on God's judgment and who goes to heaven is in Matthew 25, where he says those who go to heaven will be those who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited those in prison, gave shelter to the hungry, and welcomed the stranger -- and those who don't make it were the ones who refused to help the poor and oppressed.

And he was a really serious class warrior, too -- he wasn't just into helping the poor; he didn't seem to like rich folks very much. In Matthew 6, he focuses on the love of money as a major problem. In Luke 11, he berates a wealthy lawyer for burdening the poor. In Luke 12, he says that the wealthy who store up treasure are cursed by God. In Luke 14, he says if we throw a party, we should invite all poor people and no rich people, and suggests that the wealthy already turned down their invitation to God's feast, and that it is the poor who will get into heaven (a theme repeated multiple times). He says that the rich people will have a harder time getting to heaven than a camel trying to pass through the eye of a needle. He chases the wealthy bankers and merchants from the Temple.

I have never heard a conservative Christian quote any of these verses -- not once, and I have been in a lot of discussions with Christian conservatives, and heard a lot of their speeches and sermons. The one verse they always quote (and I mean always -- I have never talked to a conservative Christian about economics and not heard them quote this verse) is the one time in which Jesus says that "the poor will always be with us." The reason they love this quote so much is that they interpret that line to mean that in spite of everything else Jesus said about the poor, that since the poor will always be with us, we don't need to worry about trying to help them. Apparently since the poor will always be with us, we can go ahead and screw them. But Jesus making a prediction that there will always be oppressive societies doesn't mean he wanted us to join the oppressors. By clinging desperately to that one verse in the Bible, and ignoring all the others about the poor and the rich, Christian conservatives show themselves to be hypocrites, plain and simple.

Whole article...

Drivel.

Jesus wasn't Robin Hood. If God had wanted us to be fascists.. He'd have simply made us fascists. What value are we to Him if our good works are not done freely? There's no point in allowing Free Will, if we don't have choices.

"Progressives" are nothing more than modern fascists. They've just found a nicer sounding word for the same old dog-n-pony show. It's a facade for socialism just like it was in Mussolini's day. They believe they can regulate private business to the point of de facto state ownership. They don't believe in the rights of the individual to his own property or to his own benefit. They believe in the collective, and right of might.

It's a filthy ideology that dehumanizes the individual person under the guise of love for humanity, one that removes CHOICE.... choice that was given to us by God.

So, who the fuck do you think you are to try and take it away?

Maybe we can design a system of government where the minority of Americans who think like you can rule the rest of the country.