Liberal logic

[francoHFW]

But he ACTUALLY got out of Iraq. Pubs have lately shown they wouldn't have. Chickenhawk douchebags....

 

[Ed Spacer]

then if be,time to change it. Its time government have complete accountability and ethic to only act on the approval of the people. We are not slaves to the government,otherwise we are not trult free,and still have claws of imperialism.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Bush was President for 8 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars. The left HOWLED like mad about that, insisting it was all bad debt.

Obama is President 4 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars ( twice as fast as under Bush) the Rating for debt in the Country was cut because Obama and the Dems won't cut spending. And that is GOOD debt according to the Left.

They whined about Bush and still do, while praising Obama who has doubled down on everything Bush did. Same laws, double the spending, same wars plus more. And still Bush's debt was worse then Obama spending it TWICE as fast.

Liberal Logic seems a bit mixed up?

The odd part is that most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority.

Dems have spent/allocated/approved nearly 10 trillion since republicans (2007-2011)

WTF...

Now dems are bitching how the house is blocking them...

Does a democrat have a fucking idea that doesn't involve money????

I have tons...

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Bush was President for 8 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars. The left HOWLED like mad about that, insisting it was all bad debt.

Obama is President 4 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars ( twice as fast as under Bush) the Rating for debt in the Country was cut because Obama and the Dems won't cut spending. And that is GOOD debt according to the Left.

They whined about Bush and still do, while praising Obama who has doubled down on everything Bush did. Same laws, double the spending, same wars plus more. And still Bush's debt was worse then Obama spending it TWICE as fast.

Liberal Logic seems a bit mixed up?

The odd part is that most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority.

That's such bullshit.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Bush was President for 8 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars. The left HOWLED like mad about that, insisting it was all bad debt.

Obama is President 4 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars ( twice as fast as under Bush) the Rating for debt in the Country was cut because Obama and the Dems won't cut spending. And that is GOOD debt according to the Left.

They whined about Bush and still do, while praising Obama who has doubled down on everything Bush did. Same laws, double the spending, same wars plus more. And still Bush's debt was worse then Obama spending it TWICE as fast.

Liberal Logic seems a bit mixed up?

The odd part is that most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority.

That's such bullshit.

Well 2006 November elections are not that difficult to look up..

I'm stating facts...

Presidents don't legislate - congress does.

Progressives just do as they're told by their "dear leader."

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The odd part is that most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority.

That's such bullshit.

Well 2006 November elections are not that difficult to look up..

I'm stating facts...

Presidents don't legislate - congress does.

Progressives just do as they're told by their "dear leader."

Bush was in office from 2001-2009.

The "progressive super-majority" as you call it was in office for 2 of those years.

I know math isn't your strong point.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Bush was President for 8 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars. The left HOWLED like mad about that, insisting it was all bad debt.

Obama is President 4 years and the deficit went up 6 trillion dollars ( twice as fast as under Bush) the Rating for debt in the Country was cut because Obama and the Dems won't cut spending. And that is GOOD debt according to the Left.

They whined about Bush and still do, while praising Obama who has doubled down on everything Bush did. Same laws, double the spending, same wars plus more. And still Bush's debt was worse then Obama spending it TWICE as fast.

Liberal Logic seems a bit mixed up?

The odd part is that most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority.

That's such bullshit.

I'm not even going to prove you wrong, I'm just going to let you look like an ignorant fuck.

 

[Mr.Nick]

That's such bullshit.

Well 2006 November elections are not that difficult to look up..

I'm stating facts...

Presidents don't legislate - congress does.

Progressives just do as they're told by their "dear leader."

Bush was in office from 2001-2009.

The "progressive super-majority" as you call it was in office for 2 of those years.

I know math isn't your strong point.

This ^^^ is why our nation is so fucked..

 

[Poli_Sigh]

That if elected they won't inherit this mess from Obama and subsequently carry ALL the blame for their failure to fix it.

Obama has let everyone who voted for him down, plus everyone who didn't. But that doesn't mean I like any of the clowns waiting in the GOP corner to take his place. Frankly, I find them disingenuous. When it comes down to it the Republicans are just a different side of the Democrat coin, or vice versa. Neither party has done anything for me lately, I don't know about you.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Of course our progressive friends believe presidents are dictators...

Fuck the congress of course...

Progressives take ignorance to a new level....

I suppose they sport the Che T's for a reason..

Capitalism and our government is too difficult for them to understand.

Pathetic...

 

[ladyliberal]

Obama derangement goes on as evidenced by the pitiful excuses given for defending Obama's 6 trillion versus Bush's in TWICE the time.

By the way when if ever did Obama actually sign a Budget for the Country and not a continuing resolution?

We get it you think debt is good anytime YOU spend it but bad when it is not for your pet projects.

As for cutting the deficit Obama keeps asking for MORE, his own party refused to vote for a single one of his budget requests in the Senate. By the way? Obama ended nothing. Iraq was scheduled to end BY Bush. All Obama did is carry out the time line. Even though he promised in 2008 to end the Iraq war as soon as he was President. To end the Afghan war as soon as he was President and to close Gitmo as soon as he was President.

Not only did he do NONE of that, he tried to try terrorists caught by the military in Federal Courts, even though they had been given none of the protections under Federal law to be tried there. he got spanked on that TWICE. He started 3 more wars with out even asking Congress for permission. I don't recall any whines from the left on the war Powers act then, or the cost in money or lives. He supported the very terror organization that flew planes into 3 buildings.

He assassinated an American citizen with out EVER even charging him with a crime. Ohh ya and his 16 year old son.

He signed the Patriot Act every time the Democrats in Congress renewed it. He ask for and signed laws allowing him to illegally use the military inside the US for police work. He supports and demands that 12 million illegal Mexicans be made legal. He refuses to close the border, meaning if he gets his amnesty the next 10 million will flock in expecting the same thing.

His DOJ ran 2 illegal gun scams that let thousands of weapons go to Mexico to drug cartels with absolutely no way to ever track them, they didn't even inform the Mexican Government they were doing it. And now we have a member of one of the Cartels claiming the DOJ gave his Cartel immunity to BUY the guns and run drugs into the US for information on other cartels.

He violated the Constitution with Obama Care and an illegal appointment that requires Senate approval. He made a Presidential signing statement that clearly states he will violate the very law h signed cause he doesn't agree with it. He will chose when to hire 4 Czars the Congress specifically told him he can not pay for. He stated he will ignore parts of the law because he doesn't like them. And you people cheer him on.

Your facts are 100% uncited and largely untrue. For example,

- Bush did not end the Iraq war. Setting a timetable for doing something is not the same as doing something. If Obama had chosen to extend the Iraq war (as many, mostly on the right, urged him to do) he could have done so. Instead he made the conscious decision to end the war when and how he did. Bush himself acknowledged that his successor would decide how and whether to end the Iraq war (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/21/politics/main1425182.shtml).

- Obama didn't promise to end the Iraq war immediately. That would have been impossible. Politifact rates as "promise kept" his Iraq promise (PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Military).

- Similarly, Obama didn't pledge to end the Afghan war immediately. In fact, he pledged to increase troop levels there, which he did (see link above).

- Obama has never called for granting automatic residence status to undocumented residents in large numbers (there's no such thing as an "illegal Mexican", people aren't illegal).

- Obama has not started three wars. There haven't been any declared wars for awhile, and I can't think of a reasonable definition of "war" that would include three military conflicts during the Obama presidency.

- Obama hasn't "refused" to close the border. No US President or any other force in history has demonstrated an ability to close the US border entirely.

- Obama has never indicated in a signing statement that he will violate a law because he disagrees with it. Like other presidents, he has used signing statements to indicate parts of laws which he argues are unconstitutional, while at the same time he has dutifully enforced constitutional laws (such as DODT or the Bush tax cuts for the rich) with which he disagrees.


Some of your statements of fact are true (if misleading or irrelevant), but I don't really want to wade into a discussion of them while they are so interlaced with counterfactuals.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Obama derangement goes on as evidenced by the pitiful excuses given for defending Obama's 6 trillion versus Bush's in TWICE the time.

By the way when if ever did Obama actually sign a Budget for the Country and not a continuing resolution?

We get it you think debt is good anytime YOU spend it but bad when it is not for your pet projects.

As for cutting the deficit Obama keeps asking for MORE, his own party refused to vote for a single one of his budget requests in the Senate. By the way? Obama ended nothing. Iraq was scheduled to end BY Bush. All Obama did is carry out the time line. Even though he promised in 2008 to end the Iraq war as soon as he was President. To end the Afghan war as soon as he was President and to close Gitmo as soon as he was President.

Not only did he do NONE of that, he tried to try terrorists caught by the military in Federal Courts, even though they had been given none of the protections under Federal law to be tried there. he got spanked on that TWICE. He started 3 more wars with out even asking Congress for permission. I don't recall any whines from the left on the war Powers act then, or the cost in money or lives. He supported the very terror organization that flew planes into 3 buildings.

He assassinated an American citizen with out EVER even charging him with a crime. Ohh ya and his 16 year old son.

He signed the Patriot Act every time the Democrats in Congress renewed it. He ask for and signed laws allowing him to illegally use the military inside the US for police work. He supports and demands that 12 million illegal Mexicans be made legal. He refuses to close the border, meaning if he gets his amnesty the next 10 million will flock in expecting the same thing.

His DOJ ran 2 illegal gun scams that let thousands of weapons go to Mexico to drug cartels with absolutely no way to ever track them, they didn't even inform the Mexican Government they were doing it. And now we have a member of one of the Cartels claiming the DOJ gave his Cartel immunity to BUY the guns and run drugs into the US for information on other cartels.

He violated the Constitution with Obama Care and an illegal appointment that requires Senate approval. He made a Presidential signing statement that clearly states he will violate the very law h signed cause he doesn't agree with it. He will chose when to hire 4 Czars the Congress specifically told him he can not pay for. He stated he will ignore parts of the law because he doesn't like them. And you people cheer him on.

Your facts are 100% uncited and largely untrue. For example,

- Bush did not end the Iraq war. Setting a timetable for doing something is not the same as doing something. If Obama had chosen to extend the Iraq war (as many, mostly on the right, urged him to do) he could have done so. Instead he made the conscious decision to end the war when and how he did. Bush himself acknowledged that his successor would decide how and whether to end the Iraq war (Bush: Successor Decides Iraq Pullout - CBS News).

- Obama didn't promise to end the Iraq war immediately. That would have been impossible. Politifact rates as "promise kept" his Iraq promise (PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Military).

- Similarly, Obama didn't pledge to end the Afghan war immediately. In fact, he pledged to increase troop levels there, which he did (see link above).

- Obama has never called for granting automatic residence status to undocumented residents in large numbers (there's no such thing as an "illegal Mexican", people aren't illegal).

- Obama has not started three wars. There haven't been any declared wars for awhile, and I can't think of a reasonable definition of "war" that would include three military conflicts during the Obama presidency.

- Obama hasn't "refused" to close the border. No US President or any other force in history has demonstrated an ability to close the US border entirely.

- Obama has never indicated in a signing statement that he will violate a law because he disagrees with it. Like other presidents, he has used signing statements to indicate parts of laws which he argues are unconstitutional, while at the same time he has dutifully enforced constitutional laws (such as DODT or the Bush tax cuts for the rich) with which he disagrees.


Some of your statements of fact are true (if misleading or irrelevant), but I don't really want to wade into a discussion of them while they are so interlaced with counterfactuals.

Yup following Bush's time line to the letter is somehow not the same as Bush determining the end date, sure thing. Obama signed a statement right after signing the ongoing budget continuum. He specifically stated he did not agree that Congress had the right to refuse to pay for his Czars and stated he would at a future date assign them as he saw fit. He further stated about 5 other provisions were, according to him, unconstitutional and he would at his pleasure ignore them as he saw fit. We had a thread on it. and you lot said " so?" Talk about selective memory.

Obama continued EVERY single war and created more. His with out permission from Congress. A direct violation of the war powers act. Libya ring a bell? Yemen?

Not only has Obama promised amnesty to all Illegals he has refused to take any steps to close the borders and SUED States that legally passed laws enforcing deportation of illegals.

But you keep reminding us how Bush spending 6 trillion in 8 years was bad but Obama doing it in 4 is good.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Well 2006 November elections are not that difficult to look up..

I'm stating facts...

Presidents don't legislate - congress does.

Progressives just do as they're told by their "dear leader."

Bush was in office from 2001-2009.

The "progressive super-majority" as you call it was in office for 2 of those years.

I know math isn't your strong point.

This ^^^ is why our nation is so fucked..

Here's a bar graph of federal government spending from 2001-2009

Government Spending Chart: United States 2001-2009 - Federal State Local Data

Please tell me how it supports your claim that "most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority."


- or


SHUT THE FUCK UP

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Obama derangement goes on as evidenced by the pitiful excuses given for defending Obama's 6 trillion versus Bush's in TWICE the time.

By the way when if ever did Obama actually sign a Budget for the Country and not a continuing resolution?

We get it you think debt is good anytime YOU spend it but bad when it is not for your pet projects.

As for cutting the deficit Obama keeps asking for MORE, his own party refused to vote for a single one of his budget requests in the Senate. By the way? Obama ended nothing. Iraq was scheduled to end BY Bush. All Obama did is carry out the time line. Even though he promised in 2008 to end the Iraq war as soon as he was President. To end the Afghan war as soon as he was President and to close Gitmo as soon as he was President.

Not only did he do NONE of that, he tried to try terrorists caught by the military in Federal Courts, even though they had been given none of the protections under Federal law to be tried there. he got spanked on that TWICE. He started 3 more wars with out even asking Congress for permission. I don't recall any whines from the left on the war Powers act then, or the cost in money or lives. He supported the very terror organization that flew planes into 3 buildings.

He assassinated an American citizen with out EVER even charging him with a crime. Ohh ya and his 16 year old son.

He signed the Patriot Act every time the Democrats in Congress renewed it. He ask for and signed laws allowing him to illegally use the military inside the US for police work. He supports and demands that 12 million illegal Mexicans be made legal. He refuses to close the border, meaning if he gets his amnesty the next 10 million will flock in expecting the same thing.

His DOJ ran 2 illegal gun scams that let thousands of weapons go to Mexico to drug cartels with absolutely no way to ever track them, they didn't even inform the Mexican Government they were doing it. And now we have a member of one of the Cartels claiming the DOJ gave his Cartel immunity to BUY the guns and run drugs into the US for information on other cartels.

He violated the Constitution with Obama Care and an illegal appointment that requires Senate approval. He made a Presidential signing statement that clearly states he will violate the very law h signed cause he doesn't agree with it. He will chose when to hire 4 Czars the Congress specifically told him he can not pay for. He stated he will ignore parts of the law because he doesn't like them. And you people cheer him on.

Your facts are 100% uncited and largely untrue. For example,

- Bush did not end the Iraq war. Setting a timetable for doing something is not the same as doing something. If Obama had chosen to extend the Iraq war (as many, mostly on the right, urged him to do) he could have done so. Instead he made the conscious decision to end the war when and how he did. Bush himself acknowledged that his successor would decide how and whether to end the Iraq war (Bush: Successor Decides Iraq Pullout - CBS News).

- Obama didn't promise to end the Iraq war immediately. That would have been impossible. Politifact rates as "promise kept" his Iraq promise (PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Military).

- Similarly, Obama didn't pledge to end the Afghan war immediately. In fact, he pledged to increase troop levels there, which he did (see link above).

- Obama has never called for granting automatic residence status to undocumented residents in large numbers (there's no such thing as an "illegal Mexican", people aren't illegal).

- Obama has not started three wars. There haven't been any declared wars for awhile, and I can't think of a reasonable definition of "war" that would include three military conflicts during the Obama presidency.

- Obama hasn't "refused" to close the border. No US President or any other force in history has demonstrated an ability to close the US border entirely.

- Obama has never indicated in a signing statement that he will violate a law because he disagrees with it. Like other presidents, he has used signing statements to indicate parts of laws which he argues are unconstitutional, while at the same time he has dutifully enforced constitutional laws (such as DODT or the Bush tax cuts for the rich) with which he disagrees.


Some of your statements of fact are true (if misleading or irrelevant), but I don't really want to wade into a discussion of them while they are so interlaced with counterfactuals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/24/u...es-signing-statement-on-budget-bill.html?_r=1

pretty much destroys one of your claims.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Bush was in office from 2001-2009.

The "progressive super-majority" as you call it was in office for 2 of those years.

I know math isn't your strong point.

This ^^^ is why our nation is so fucked..

Here's a bar graph of federal government spending from 2001-2009

Government Spending Chart: United States 2001-2009 - Federal State Local Data

Please tell me how it supports your claim that "most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority."


- or


SHUT THE FUCK UP

And why do you believe I would accept that as a valid source?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This ^^^ is why our nation is so fucked..

Here's a bar graph of federal government spending from 2001-2009

Government Spending Chart: United States 2001-2009 - Federal State Local Data

Please tell me how it supports your claim that "most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority."


- or


SHUT THE FUCK UP

And why do you believe I would accept that as a valid source?

Claiming Bush spent money in 2009 is funny as hell. 2008 and 2009 Budgets were created by a Democratic Congress.

 

[Chris]

For the 10,000th time....

When you are in a deflationary spiral, the government MUST be the demand of last resort.

Even the right wing Chamber of Commerce supported the stimulus.

Now with the Bush tax cuts expiring in December and the automatic spending cuts kicking in in Jan of 2013, most of the deficit will be erased.

 

[Chris]

Here's a bar graph of federal government spending from 2001-2009

Government Spending Chart: United States 2001-2009 - Federal State Local Data

Please tell me how it supports your claim that "most of the spending under Bush was under a progressive super majority."


- or


SHUT THE FUCK UP

And why do you believe I would accept that as a valid source?

Claiming Bush spent money in 2009 is funny as hell. 2008 and 2009 Budgets were created by a Democratic Congress.

Bush started two unfunded wars, an unfunded trillion dollar drug program, and cut taxes for the rich, and crashed the economy.

Bush caused the problem, Obama solved it.

 

[Poli_Sigh]

Of course our progressive friends believe presidents are dictators...

Fuck the congress of course...

Progressives take ignorance to a new level....

I suppose they sport the Che T's for a reason..

Capitalism and our government is too difficult for them to understand.

Pathetic...

The only reason why Capitalism is difficult to understand for many Americans is simple - they don't have any (capital, that is). The idea behind the economic philosophy was that everyone should. Otherwise the playing field becomes decidedly unbalanced - as it now is 99% to 1%.

But I agree fuck Congress, actually it is they who have taken ignorance and apathy to a new level. And, yes, they're pathetic.

 

[ladyliberal]

Obama derangement goes on as evidenced by the pitiful excuses given for defending Obama's 6 trillion versus Bush's in TWICE the time.

By the way when if ever did Obama actually sign a Budget for the Country and not a continuing resolution?

We get it you think debt is good anytime YOU spend it but bad when it is not for your pet projects.

As for cutting the deficit Obama keeps asking for MORE, his own party refused to vote for a single one of his budget requests in the Senate. By the way? Obama ended nothing. Iraq was scheduled to end BY Bush. All Obama did is carry out the time line. Even though he promised in 2008 to end the Iraq war as soon as he was President. To end the Afghan war as soon as he was President and to close Gitmo as soon as he was President.

Not only did he do NONE of that, he tried to try terrorists caught by the military in Federal Courts, even though they had been given none of the protections under Federal law to be tried there. he got spanked on that TWICE. He started 3 more wars with out even asking Congress for permission. I don't recall any whines from the left on the war Powers act then, or the cost in money or lives. He supported the very terror organization that flew planes into 3 buildings.

He assassinated an American citizen with out EVER even charging him with a crime. Ohh ya and his 16 year old son.

He signed the Patriot Act every time the Democrats in Congress renewed it. He ask for and signed laws allowing him to illegally use the military inside the US for police work. He supports and demands that 12 million illegal Mexicans be made legal. He refuses to close the border, meaning if he gets his amnesty the next 10 million will flock in expecting the same thing.

His DOJ ran 2 illegal gun scams that let thousands of weapons go to Mexico to drug cartels with absolutely no way to ever track them, they didn't even inform the Mexican Government they were doing it. And now we have a member of one of the Cartels claiming the DOJ gave his Cartel immunity to BUY the guns and run drugs into the US for information on other cartels.

He violated the Constitution with Obama Care and an illegal appointment that requires Senate approval. He made a Presidential signing statement that clearly states he will violate the very law h signed cause he doesn't agree with it. He will chose when to hire 4 Czars the Congress specifically told him he can not pay for. He stated he will ignore parts of the law because he doesn't like them. And you people cheer him on.

Your facts are 100% uncited and largely untrue. For example,

- Bush did not end the Iraq war. Setting a timetable for doing something is not the same as doing something. If Obama had chosen to extend the Iraq war (as many, mostly on the right, urged him to do) he could have done so. Instead he made the conscious decision to end the war when and how he did. Bush himself acknowledged that his successor would decide how and whether to end the Iraq war (Bush: Successor Decides Iraq Pullout - CBS News).

- Obama didn't promise to end the Iraq war immediately. That would have been impossible. Politifact rates as "promise kept" his Iraq promise (PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Military).

- Similarly, Obama didn't pledge to end the Afghan war immediately. In fact, he pledged to increase troop levels there, which he did (see link above).

- Obama has never called for granting automatic residence status to undocumented residents in large numbers (there's no such thing as an "illegal Mexican", people aren't illegal).

- Obama has not started three wars. There haven't been any declared wars for awhile, and I can't think of a reasonable definition of "war" that would include three military conflicts during the Obama presidency.

- Obama hasn't "refused" to close the border. No US President or any other force in history has demonstrated an ability to close the US border entirely.

- Obama has never indicated in a signing statement that he will violate a law because he disagrees with it. Like other presidents, he has used signing statements to indicate parts of laws which he argues are unconstitutional, while at the same time he has dutifully enforced constitutional laws (such as DODT or the Bush tax cuts for the rich) with which he disagrees.


Some of your statements of fact are true (if misleading or irrelevant), but I don't really want to wade into a discussion of them while they are so interlaced with counterfactuals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/24/u...es-signing-statement-on-budget-bill.html?_r=1

pretty much destroys one of your claims.

My claim was:

- Obama has never indicated in a signing statement that he will violate a law because he disagrees with it. Like other presidents, he has used signing statements to indicate parts of laws which he argues are unconstitutional, while at the same time he has dutifully enforced constitutional laws (such as DODT or the Bush tax cuts for the rich) with which he disagrees.

The first paragraph of your source says that:

WASHINGTON — When President Obama signed a budget bill on Friday, he issued a signing statement claiming a right to bypass dozens of provisions that placed requirements or restrictions on the executive branch, saying he had “well-founded constitutional objections” to the new statutes.

So while I appreciate your sourcing, by my reading it doesn't so much "destroy" my claim as conform to it precisely. To wit, Obama is claiming a constitutional objection rather than an objection on personal principle.