Liberal Goal for America: Gutless Socialism

[musicman]

I have always heard that the founding fathers were not Christian and I've heard/read quotes from Thomas Jefferson to at least get the idea he wasn't.

I understand that some were Deists, but - per the point you and I were discussing - I daresay most, if not all, came from Judeo-Christian backgrounds. And, the American ideal - unique in human history - is firmly grounded in man's evolved, enlightened understanding of Christian principle (that man couldn't get this right in the centuries preceding 1776 is no indictment of Christian principle; rather, it is proof of the flawed nature of man - his agonizingly slow path to understanding).

Only because our founders thus understood that man is not only imperfect, but - by his nature, non-perfectible - did they strive to create a system whereby government was viewed as a necessary evil, to be kept on a short, well-guarded leash. Governments - being the creations of imperfect men - must - left unchecked - degrade into tyranny. That's just the way we are. Therefore, the rights of self-governing individuals, living within the rule of law, are supreme. This is a uniquely Christian worldview. Given the positive impact America has had on the world in its short history, it's a hard mindset to argue with.

Your having representation is not a problem at all. It's when people try to break the separation of church and state we currently have is when I have a problem.

Who's trying to do that, and how?

If your political views are influenced by religion, nothing completely wrong with that, but it's if you try to impose your beliefs on others it's wrong.

Who's trying to do that, and how?

I'm very much happy with my life, a lot happier than when I had been Christian. Many of the people who know me personally can attest to that.

Glad to hear it! Happy is the only way to be.

I was just throwing up that some people might call me a douche. You have been a very calm and collected person in our conversations and that only makes me respect you more.

Right back at ya!

 

[Kagom]

I understand that some were Deists, but - per the point you and I were discussing - I daresay most, if not all, came from Judeo-Christian backgrounds. And, the American ideal - unique in human history - is firmly grounded in man's evolved, enlightened understanding of Christian principle (that man couldn't get this right in the centuries preceding 1776 is no indictment of Christian principle; rather, it is proof of the flawed nature of man - his agonizingly slow path to understanding).

Only because our founders thus understood that man is not only imperfect, but - by his nature, non-perfectible - did they strive to create a system whereby government was viewed as a necessary evil, to be kept on a short, well-guarded leash. Governments - being the creations of imperfect men - must - left unchecked - degrade into tyranny. That's just the way we are. Therefore, the rights of self-governing individuals, living within the rule of law, are supreme. This is a uniquely Christian worldview. Given the positive impact America has had on the world in its short history, it's a hard mindset to argue with.

Who's trying to do that, and how?

Who's trying to do that, and how?

Glad to hear it! Happy is the only way to be.

Right back at ya!

I'll concede to the point on the founding fathers.

I havent' said anyone's trying actively, I'm saying that when people do try to sanction it in, it's wrong. No accusations behind that at all.

Cheers