Liar-In-Chief Slams Michigan’s Right-To-Work Law During Fiscal Cliff Speech

[saveliberty]

You may have the right to argue for better wages in right-to-work states, but you don't have collective bargaining that would motivate employers to give you those better wages. So, Obama is right; and you -- as usual -- are full of shit.

That is a LIE!

Prove it

Employers are motivated by cooperative and productive workers. I'd pay more for those folks and keep out a union from my shop. See how that works?

 

[daveman]

Without the union, you will be paid less. The lazy sob will be paid less too. But YOUR wages and benefits will be lower. What is your incentive then?

As I said, you have a false sense of self worth. You need collective bargaining to ensure that YOU get what you are worth. But your primary concern is that someone else might get more than they are worth. Of course, being delusional, you expect that you will be able to negotiate for yourself....and get more. Or....you think your employer will recognize your superhuman effort and pay you what you are worth out of fairness.

Unsurprisingly, what you say is incorrect. You need to be part of a collective. You have trouble operating as an individual.

As an individual, you have the right to negotiate your own wages and benefits.

The fact that you see individualism as delusional speaks volumes about you. And it's not flattering.

Daveman, stop Daving, please.

We are not talking about me. I am self employed.....the individual.....the boss. We were talking about the hypothetical worker. you, being delusional, think the typical worker is in a position to negotiate for himself or herself in a manner that is superior to that of an organized union. You are fucking wrong.

I know what's better for me than the union does.

Once again, you fail to recognize the individuality of human beings.

In other words: You are fucking wrong.

 

[daveman]

Without the union the wages will decrease for you the individual

Yeah. How'd that work out for the Hostess bakers?

Too bad no one was buying their crappy products anymore

The union's wages decreased, didn't they?

 

[jhc1983]

I've asked this question before elsewhere, but I've never gotten a rational answer.

What gives a union member a greater right to work than a non-union member?

its not about the "right to work", a union give the member the ability to collectively bargain with his or her fellow co-workers for improved wages and benefits. the employer does not have to simply lay down and accept what the workers are demanding. unfortunately there were a lot of bad labor contracts that were negotiated in the recent past. however it is because of unions that we have the 40 hours work week, maternity pay, holiday pay, sick pay, vacation pay and work place safety standards. Union workers also on average are paid a better wage than employees in similar positions for other organizations.

have there been bad labor contracts, absolutely, but eliminating all unions is not the solution to this problem.

Yeah. No one's calling for the elimination of unions.

What we're calling for is the right of each employee to decide for himself whether or not he wants to join the union.

Some people oppose that right.

Unions only work if all workers are included. You cannot have non-union workers with union workers. It drives down the wages because you cannot C.B.

 

[daveman]

video at site
Worse President EVER

SNIP:
Jaw-dropping lie alert: Obama tells workers right-to-work laws “take away your rights to bargain for better wages,” in reality it stops workers from being forced to join a union as a condition of employment. Nothing in those laws relates to collective bargaining. So he’s either grossly misinformed or lying his ass off.

video and comments at site
Liar-In-Chief Slams Michigan’s Right-To-Work Law During Fiscal Cliff Speech… | Weasel Zippers

It's probably about 50/50 on lying or misinformed now as the left loves to say Obama won which he did so Mr President how about you stop with campaign speeches and get back to D.C. and do your job.

He did his job, he kicked that vulture capitalist pig Romney out of politics forever. About time Obama stopped treating these republican dogs like normal people.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If I'm a conscientious, hard-working union member, why shouldn't I get paid more than the lazy slob working beside me? The contract says we both make the same. Therefore, I have no incentive to continue being conscientious and hard-working. Why should I bust my ass when I can get paid for sitting on my ass like the guy next to me?

You do not think that happens in a place of work without unions

Of course it does. But that lazy bastard next to me can get fired for non-performance, and I'm free to negotiate higher wages for my outstanding performance.

Can't do that in the union, can you? Matter of fact, hard workers are often told they're making the rest of the union look bad. They're told to slow down.

This is a true story.

When I was in my 20's, I went to work for a Japanese manufacturer in Japan. I was officially a member of the export department, and not a member of the union, but I spent the first 8 months of my time in there in the factory.....learning how to make, inspect and pack our products.

One of the product categories has a 9 step process within the assembly line. I was stationed there for several weeks. It was EXCRUCIATINGLY boring. There were workers there who had been in that section for years. They seemed to be working efficiently.....and they were serious about the job. But.....within a few days of being there, I was killing them in production. I had moved my supplies around and adjusted my steps to save time.....and I was just moving faster.

Of course, being young and stupid.....I didn't realize that I was making waves. I knew I would only be there a short while.....and going fast was my way to challenge myself and make the job more bearable. But the others in the department did not appreciate being shown up by the young foreigner.

Management took action. And I was removed from the section ahead of time.

I upset the apple cart.....and the way they were doing things was best for the company....even if every ounce of blood and sweat was not squeezed out of the workers.

Sometimes.......shit ain't what it seems.

 

[jhc1983]

Yeah. How'd that work out for the Hostess bakers?

Too bad no one was buying their crappy products anymore

The union's wages decreased, didn't they?

It was the corporation's fault not the bakers

Anti-Union people have been attempting to blame the bakers as usual.
I just side with the Workers and not the greedy corporations

 

[daveman]

its not about the "right to work", a union give the member the ability to collectively bargain with his or her fellow co-workers for improved wages and benefits. the employer does not have to simply lay down and accept what the workers are demanding. unfortunately there were a lot of bad labor contracts that were negotiated in the recent past. however it is because of unions that we have the 40 hours work week, maternity pay, holiday pay, sick pay, vacation pay and work place safety standards. Union workers also on average are paid a better wage than employees in similar positions for other organizations.

have there been bad labor contracts, absolutely, but eliminating all unions is not the solution to this problem.

Yeah. No one's calling for the elimination of unions.

What we're calling for is the right of each employee to decide for himself whether or not he wants to join the union.

Some people oppose that right.

Unions only work if all workers are included. You cannot have non-union workers with union workers. It drives down the wages because you cannot C.B.

Freedom sucks, don't it?

 

[J.E.D]

That is a LIE!

Prove it

Employers are motivated by cooperative and productive workers. I'd pay more for those folks and keep out a union from my shop. See how that works?

That's not what I said. What I said was that employees have no right to collective bargaining.

 

[J.E.D]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[OKTexas]

so apparently the right and ability to unionize is terrible, and giving employees the ability to collectively bargain for better wages is also terrible.

can someone on the right explain this to everyone? why wouldnt you want to the ability to negotiate better wages and benefits?

Why should a worker be held back by a union contract, if your better than your co-workers why shouldn't you be able to seek better pay and benefits on your own? Only jobs I've had that I truly hated were in union shops because my progress was tied directly to everyone else. If your a good productive worker why would you want the union anchor around your neck?

 

[saveliberty]

Prove it

Employers are motivated by cooperative and productive workers. I'd pay more for those folks and keep out a union from my shop. See how that works?

That's not what I said. What I said was that employees have no right to collective bargaining.

I think it is a right to collective bargain, as long as it doesn't infringe upon those who wish not to, at the cost of their employment or working conditions.

 

[daveman]

You do not think that happens in a place of work without unions

Of course it does. But that lazy bastard next to me can get fired for non-performance, and I'm free to negotiate higher wages for my outstanding performance.

Can't do that in the union, can you? Matter of fact, hard workers are often told they're making the rest of the union look bad. They're told to slow down.

This is a true story.

When I was in my 20's, I went to work for a Japanese manufacturer in Japan. I was officially a member of the export department, and not a member of the union, but I spent the first 8 months of my time in there in the factory.....learning how to make, inspect and pack our products.

One of the product categories has a 9 step process within the assembly line. I was stationed there for several weeks. It was EXCRUCIATINGLY boring. There were workers there who had been in that section for years. They seemed to be working efficiently.....and they were serious about the job. But.....within a few days of being there, I was killing them in production. I had moved my supplies around and adjusted my steps to save time.....and I was just moving faster.

Of course, being young and stupid.....I didn't realize that I was making waves. I knew I would only be there a short while.....and going fast was my way to challenge myself and make the job more bearable. But the others in the department did not appreciate being shown up by the young foreigner.

Management took action. And I was removed from the section ahead of time.

I upset the apple cart.....and the way they were doing things was best for the company....even if every ounce of blood and sweat was not squeezed out of the workers.

Sometimes.......shit ain't what it seems.

This is a true story.

The single laziest human being I ever worked with was a United Mine Workers member who was on strike. He took a construction labor job.

If he couldn't do it sitting down, he didn't do it. And it's tough to build a building sitting down, don't you think?

He got paid 6 bucks an hour, same as the rest of us laborers. This was in the mid-80's, and it wasn't bad money for the location. He kept threatening to get the union in to shut down the site if he didn't get a raise. The foreman/part owner was getting only 10 bucks an hour -- and that's what the lazy bastard wanted for being lazy.

Sometimes...shit is exactly what it seems.

 

[daveman]

Too bad no one was buying their crappy products anymore

The union's wages decreased, didn't they?

It was the corporation's fault not the bakers

Anti-Union people have been attempting to blame the bakers as usual.
I just side with the Workers and not the greedy corporations

Company: If you go on strike, we have no choice but to go out of business.

Baker's Union: We know. STRIKE!!


Did you know the other unions involved told the bakers they shouldn't strike?

 

[J.E.D]

Employers are motivated by cooperative and productive workers. I'd pay more for those folks and keep out a union from my shop. See how that works?

That's not what I said. What I said was that employees have no right to collective bargaining.

I think it is a right to collective bargain, as long as it doesn't infringe upon those who wish not to, at the cost of their employment or working conditions.

Semantics then. There is no incentive to C.B.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Of course it does. But that lazy bastard next to me can get fired for non-performance, and I'm free to negotiate higher wages for my outstanding performance.

Can't do that in the union, can you? Matter of fact, hard workers are often told they're making the rest of the union look bad. They're told to slow down.

This is a true story.

When I was in my 20's, I went to work for a Japanese manufacturer in Japan. I was officially a member of the export department, and not a member of the union, but I spent the first 8 months of my time in there in the factory.....learning how to make, inspect and pack our products.

One of the product categories has a 9 step process within the assembly line. I was stationed there for several weeks. It was EXCRUCIATINGLY boring. There were workers there who had been in that section for years. They seemed to be working efficiently.....and they were serious about the job. But.....within a few days of being there, I was killing them in production. I had moved my supplies around and adjusted my steps to save time.....and I was just moving faster.

Of course, being young and stupid.....I didn't realize that I was making waves. I knew I would only be there a short while.....and going fast was my way to challenge myself and make the job more bearable. But the others in the department did not appreciate being shown up by the young foreigner.

Management took action. And I was removed from the section ahead of time.

I upset the apple cart.....and the way they were doing things was best for the company....even if every ounce of blood and sweat was not squeezed out of the workers.

Sometimes.......shit ain't what it seems.

This is a true story.

The single laziest human being I ever worked with was a United Mine Workers member who was on strike. He took a construction labor job.

If he couldn't do it sitting down, he didn't do it. And it's tough to build a building sitting down, don't you think?

He got paid 6 bucks an hour, same as the rest of us laborers. This was in the mid-80's, and it wasn't bad money for the location. He kept threatening to get the union in to shut down the site if he didn't get a raise. The foreman/part owner was getting only 10 bucks an hour -- and that's what the lazy bastard wanted for being lazy.

Sometimes...shit is exactly what it seems.

Why are you lying?

 

[saveliberty]

That's not what I said. What I said was that employees have no right to collective bargaining.

I think it is a right to collective bargain, as long as it doesn't infringe upon those who wish not to, at the cost of their employment or working conditions.

Semantics then. There is no incentive to C.B.

Sure there is, its called dues and creating political influence with said dollars.

 

[OKTexas]

so apparently the right and ability to unionize is terrible, and giving employees the ability to collectively bargain for better wages is also terrible.

can someone on the right explain this to everyone? why wouldnt you want to the ability to negotiate better wages and benefits?

False sense of self-worth. They are concerned that they will be a more valuable employee than one or more other employees, but will be compensated the same. This is, of course, delusional on their part. They will happily take less as long as they can say that they get more than someone else.

If I'm a conscientious, hard-working union member, why shouldn't I get paid more than the lazy slob working beside me? The contract says we both make the same. Therefore, I have no incentive to continue being conscientious and hard-working. Why should I bust my ass when I can get paid for sitting on my ass like the guy next to me?

You must have worked in a UAW shop, their full of freeloaders.

 

[OKTexas]

I've asked this question before elsewhere, but I've never gotten a rational answer.

What gives a union member a greater right to work than a non-union member?

Because non union people are willing to settle for less. Look at the wages in right to work states vs union states.

You also need to look at the taxes and cost of living, they tend to be much lower in right-to-work states.

 

[daveman]

This is a true story.

When I was in my 20's, I went to work for a Japanese manufacturer in Japan. I was officially a member of the export department, and not a member of the union, but I spent the first 8 months of my time in there in the factory.....learning how to make, inspect and pack our products.

One of the product categories has a 9 step process within the assembly line. I was stationed there for several weeks. It was EXCRUCIATINGLY boring. There were workers there who had been in that section for years. They seemed to be working efficiently.....and they were serious about the job. But.....within a few days of being there, I was killing them in production. I had moved my supplies around and adjusted my steps to save time.....and I was just moving faster.

Of course, being young and stupid.....I didn't realize that I was making waves. I knew I would only be there a short while.....and going fast was my way to challenge myself and make the job more bearable. But the others in the department did not appreciate being shown up by the young foreigner.

Management took action. And I was removed from the section ahead of time.

I upset the apple cart.....and the way they were doing things was best for the company....even if every ounce of blood and sweat was not squeezed out of the workers.

Sometimes.......shit ain't what it seems.

This is a true story.

The single laziest human being I ever worked with was a United Mine Workers member who was on strike. He took a construction labor job.

If he couldn't do it sitting down, he didn't do it. And it's tough to build a building sitting down, don't you think?

He got paid 6 bucks an hour, same as the rest of us laborers. This was in the mid-80's, and it wasn't bad money for the location. He kept threatening to get the union in to shut down the site if he didn't get a raise. The foreman/part owner was getting only 10 bucks an hour -- and that's what the lazy bastard wanted for being lazy.

Sometimes...shit is exactly what it seems.

Why are you lying?

What makes you think I'm lying? NOTE: Whining "I don't LIKE it!!" is not proof.