Let's talk about teachers

[chanel]

Thank you. That's the point I was getting at. I've read a lot of teacher bashing in the news lately, and it seems as if there are many people who think the MAJORITY of teachers suck and they should be let go. The argument against tenure is that it is protecting all these horrible people that are hurting this country. That is complete B.S. and a dangerous road to travel if you ask me.

I know the economy has a lot to do with it right now. Hopefully when things turn around the anger and jealousy will cease.

 

[Madeline]

I'd like to see schools get social workers on staff. People trained and tasked to look after all the family, social and other issues kidlets bring with them to class, so that teachers could once again teach. I think it is unreasonable to expect so damned much from teachers that has zippedy-doo-dah to do with education.

I'd be happy with pleasant, competent teachers in most classrooms. My kidlet had one teacher in all her years K-12 she greatly admired. I had one. Most people had one. One is enough...we do not need to set the bar so high.

I'm even willing to tolerate some bad behavior in a teacher. The kidlet had a witch for 2nd grade -- but that woman was as unkind to each student in the class as she was to my kidlet. As long as my kidlet was not singled out for abuse, I figured learning to cope with her was prolly best.

 

[Samson]

Thank you. That's the point I was getting at. I've read a lot of teacher bashing in the news lately, and it seems as if there are many people who think the MAJORITY of teachers suck and they should be let go. The argument against tenure is that it is protecting all these horrible people that are hurting this country. That is complete B.S. and a dangerous road to travel if you ask me.

I know the economy has a lot to do with it right now. Hopefully when things turn around the anger and jealousy will cease.

Its not the economy, IMHO, that may be the cause of any preceived extra criticisim that teachers may be receiving.

Teachers are public servants.

All public servants are part of government that has failed miserably to provide basic services (e.g., economic protection, border control) yet continues to indebt the nation for generations.

Obviously teachers haven't very much to do with these wider issues, but they're often the most visible targets.

 

[chanel]

It's a good lesson Madeline. My son had a really mean 1st grade teacher (which they moved to 8th grade), however.... We were at the pediatrician's office and when the doctor asked about school, my son said "I have a good teacher. She's not a very good person, but she's a good teacher". The doctor got such a kick out of that. I am constantly telling my students that they need to learn to get along with people they don't necessarily "like". That's the real world.

We have social workers on staff. We have a drug and alcohol counselor. We have cops. It's still not enough. The kids need parents.

 

[chanel]

Thank you. That's the point I was getting at. I've read a lot of teacher bashing in the news lately, and it seems as if there are many people who think the MAJORITY of teachers suck and they should be let go. The argument against tenure is that it is protecting all these horrible people that are hurting this country. That is complete B.S. and a dangerous road to travel if you ask me.

I know the economy has a lot to do with it right now. Hopefully when things turn around the anger and jealousy will cease.

Its not the economy, IMHO, that may be the cause of any preceived extra criticisim that teachers may be receiving.

Teachers are public servants.

All public servants are part of government that has failed miserably to provide basic services (e.g., economic protection, border control) yet continues to indebt the nation for generations.

Obviously teachers haven't very much to do with these wider issues, but they're often the most visible targets.

It's a lot of things, but certainly job security is something everyone wishes for today. A few years ago - not a major concern.

 

[Madeline]

It's a good lesson Madeline. My son had a really mean 1st grade teacher (which they moved to 8th grade), however.... We were at the pediatrician's office and when the doctor asked about school, my son said "I have a good teacher. She's not a very good person, but she's a good teacher". The doctor got such a kick out of that. I am constantly telling my students that they need to learn to get along with people they don't necessarily "like". That's the real world.

We have social workers on staff. We have a drug and alcohol counselor. We have cops. It's still not enough. The kids need parents.

What is the solution, then? To segregate kids into schools where students have good parents versus ones where they don't? That seems to be the motif here...if a parent "really cares" about his child, that kid is not enrolled in a traditional neighborhood school, at least inside Cleveland city limits. With every year that goes by, the kids "left behind" seem to present ever-more challenges to teach....uhm, I mean to raise....

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'd like to see schools get social workers on staff. People trained and tasked to look after all the family, social and other issues kidlets bring with them to class, so that teachers could once again teach. I think it is unreasonable to expect so damned much from teachers that has zippedy-doo-dah to do with education.

Yeah that's what we need; more government employees nosing around in our private lives.

 

[chanel]

That's billion dollar question Madeline. The reason the government and the public is going after teachers is because it's the only thing they have control over. Parents, poverty, drugs, crime, pop culture, etc. is something they do not. It's about expediency and money. And retraining teachers, merit pay, etc. will only have a nominal effect on student achievement without dealing with the other factors.

 

[Madeline]

I'd like to see schools get social workers on staff. People trained and tasked to look after all the family, social and other issues kidlets bring with them to class, so that teachers could once again teach. I think it is unreasonable to expect so damned much from teachers that has zippedy-doo-dah to do with education.

Yeah that's what we need; more government employees nosing around in our private lives.

What should we do about kids with no bedtime, no supervision, no home training, Skull Pilot? Keep bashing "ineffective teachers"?

 

[Mr. H.]

Wife had 4 years with the district. Glowing reviews from other teachers, the admins, and parents.
It's a 12 hour a day job, often times weekends. She spent hundreds of dollars of her paycheck each school year just to keep her kids in needed supplies.

Here reward? "Pack your bags". Riffed.

It's a social network bereft with nepotism. It's such bullshit.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. H. We had many excellent teachers riffed last year as well. That's why I believe tenure is necessary. It can't protect everyone in times of budget crisis, but the nepotism and favoritism shown toward teachers "who don't ruffle any feathers" is widespread. Tell her not to give up. Some of my friends ended up with better paying jobs in other districts.

We got the hell out of that town. Moved to larger city with a university and just love it.
But- the best she can do for now (and the past 2 years) has been as a one-on-one aid to a couple of 1st graders. One kid is limited function/mobility, the other is the sweetest little girl you've ever laid eyes on - until she flips LOL. Biting hitting screaming etc etc.

Anyhow it's work. Low pay but a great health plan that doesn't cost a dime. But the physical/mental stress is taking its toll.

Oh- there was a 2nd grade opening at the start of the school year. Several experienced in-district teachers applied. Who got the job? Some gal fresh out of college - and OUT of district! She's a former student of the district supervisor.

go figger

 

[Annie]

It's a good lesson Madeline. My son had a really mean 1st grade teacher (which they moved to 8th grade), however.... We were at the pediatrician's office and when the doctor asked about school, my son said "I have a good teacher. She's not a very good person, but she's a good teacher". The doctor got such a kick out of that. I am constantly telling my students that they need to learn to get along with people they don't necessarily "like". That's the real world.

We have social workers on staff. We have a drug and alcohol counselor. We have cops. It's still not enough. The kids need parents.

Your son's observations regarding the teacher as teacher and as person were wonderful. Seriously, most effective secondary teachers do not belong in the lower grades, either by personality or interests. How the heck did the district have a secondary teacher in 1st grade? My certification begins in 6th grade and goes to 12th.

I wonder if most parents realize that secondary teachers have a total of 3 courses in education, one of which is student teaching-in secondary positions? Bottom line is that many if not most secondary teachers found education courses and faculty most definitely a mix of the useful and imaginary.

Mind you, I do think it's much easier and for me, interesting, to teach what one is seriously interested in subject wise. For a fact it's easier to teach kids that already know how to read and write, whether or not at grade level. It's also easier to teach kids who for the most part are physiologically able to sit still for more than 5 minutes. The job that primary teachers have is awe inspiring to me. I couldn't do it.

 

[Annie]

I'd like to see schools get social workers on staff. People trained and tasked to look after all the family, social and other issues kidlets bring with them to class, so that teachers could once again teach. I think it is unreasonable to expect so damned much from teachers that has zippedy-doo-dah to do with education.

...

I may be reading this wrong, but seems you'd like to supply surrogate parents for the parents? No community, state, or the country could afford 'looking after the families' that need it. Even parochial schools have MSWs on staff for the interventions when possible, however they don't come close to meeting the needs of the kids, much less the family.

I'd say that in average schools most parents really care about their kids. Oftentimes they are really clueless of what their child is capable of at a given age. Many times it's just poor parenting skills, like how to effectively discipline. Schools can help with that, in coordination with the county or parish services available, through newsletters, mandatory meetings at beginning of the year in 1st, 4th, and 5th/6th grades. Social workers coming into homes is more along the recommendation of complaints of abuse/neglect.

 

[Samson]

Thank you. That's the point I was getting at. I've read a lot of teacher bashing in the news lately, and it seems as if there are many people who think the MAJORITY of teachers suck and they should be let go. The argument against tenure is that it is protecting all these horrible people that are hurting this country. That is complete B.S. and a dangerous road to travel if you ask me.

I know the economy has a lot to do with it right now. Hopefully when things turn around the anger and jealousy will cease.

Ok, I get where you're comming from:

The Public is jealous of GOOD teachers' pay, benefits, and job security in a BAD economy.

You think teachers should be immune: Why?

 

[xotoxi]

Tenure protects teachers who are often victims of bogus accusations.

That would be the scariest thing about being a teacher...especially a male teacher.

All you need is a teen girl with borderline personality disorder who is pissed about a grade to start a rumor that the male teacher touched her tits.

Just the accusation would fuck everything up.

And I don't think that tenure or anything other than cameras everywhere would stop that.

 

[Samson]

Tenure protects teachers who are often victims of bogus accusations.

That would be the scariest thing about being a teacher...especially a male teacher.

All you need is a teen girl with borderline personality disorder who is pissed about a grade to start a rumor that the male teacher touched her tits.

Just the accusation would fuck everything up.

And I don't think that tenure or anything other than cameras everywhere would stop that.

"ESPECIALLY a Male teacher?"

Why, because you've never heard of female teachers "sexually abusing" male students?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,147179,00.html

 

[xotoxi]

Tenure protects teachers who are often victims of bogus accusations.

That would be the scariest thing about being a teacher...especially a male teacher.

All you need is a teen girl with borderline personality disorder who is pissed about a grade to start a rumor that the male teacher touched her tits.

Just the accusation would fuck everything up.

And I don't think that tenure or anything other than cameras everywhere would stop that.

"ESPECIALLY a Male teacher?"

Why, because you've never heard of female teachers "sexually abusing" male students?

When Ms. Teacher Goes After Male Pupil - U.S. & World - FOXNews.com

I'm sorry for my inappropriate gender-biased comments, Sam.

I did not mean to offend anyone.

 

[jillian]

Thank you. That's the point I was getting at. I've read a lot of teacher bashing in the news lately, and it seems as if there are many people who think the MAJORITY of teachers suck and they should be let go. The argument against tenure is that it is protecting all these horrible people that are hurting this country. That is complete B.S. and a dangerous road to travel if you ask me.

I know the economy has a lot to do with it right now. Hopefully when things turn around the anger and jealousy will cease.

Ok, I get where you're comming from:

The Public is jealous of GOOD teachers' pay, benefits, and job security in a BAD economy.

You think teachers should be immune: Why?

personally, i think teachers are being used as a facile means of union busting. villianize them enough and you can do whatever you want to them... take away their benefits; take away their tenure, etc.

 

[Samson]

That would be the scariest thing about being a teacher...especially a male teacher.

All you need is a teen girl with borderline personality disorder who is pissed about a grade to start a rumor that the male teacher touched her tits.

Just the accusation would fuck everything up.

And I don't think that tenure or anything other than cameras everywhere would stop that.

"ESPECIALLY a Male teacher?"

Why, because you've never heard of female teachers "sexually abusing" male students?

When Ms. Teacher Goes After Male Pupil - U.S. & World - FOXNews.com

I'm sorry for my inappropriate gender-biased comments, Sam.

I did not mean to offend anyone.

What? I don't even get a tissue.............

You Bitch!

 

[Samson]

Thank you. That's the point I was getting at. I've read a lot of teacher bashing in the news lately, and it seems as if there are many people who think the MAJORITY of teachers suck and they should be let go. The argument against tenure is that it is protecting all these horrible people that are hurting this country. That is complete B.S. and a dangerous road to travel if you ask me.

I know the economy has a lot to do with it right now. Hopefully when things turn around the anger and jealousy will cease.

Ok, I get where you're comming from:

The Public is jealous of GOOD teachers' pay, benefits, and job security in a BAD economy.

You think teachers should be immune: Why?

personally, i think teachers are being used as a facile means of union busting. villianize them enough and you can do whatever you want to them... take away their benefits; take away their tenure, etc.

Well, Texas Law forbids teachers from collective bargaining, and or course, striking, and there is no tenure.

Teachers around Houston have starting salaries at $40,000.

Here is the Texas teacher retirement income formula:

A simple formula for computing your retirement salary is to average your best three years' salaries. Take this average and multiply it by the number of years you have worked in' public schools times 2.3%. For example, the average of 3 years' salaries of $30,000, $31,000, and $32,000 would be $31,000. A teacher who has taught for 30 years would get 69% of that amount (30 years multiplied by 2.3% equals 69%) or $2139 a month.

This is a MUCH better retirement plan than most companies offer (which is usually, nothing).

 

[editec]

Waiting for Superman is in theaters now. I have not seen it yet, but there's been a lot of buzz.

Waiting For "Superman" | Trailer & Clips | Official Movie Site

I've been reading a lot of teacher bashing in the news lately, and as many of you know, here in NJ, Chris Christie has been at war with the NJEA. NJ has some of the top public schools in the country and some of the worst in our inner cities. Blaming teachers for school failure (without the kudos for success) seems self-defeating. What I mean by that, is an "us vs. them" mentality can cause horrible morale, which can affect teacher performance and students' attitudes toward education.

I attended public schools in NY, PA, and NJ. Out of about 40 teachers from K-12, I can say I had about three that I did not "like". However, in hindsight, I probably still learned a lot in their classes. I cannot recall one teacher who did not teach.

I'm curious to see how many others believe that teachers are not doing their jobs. What percentage do you feel are truly incompetent?

Very very small. The first year or two usually eliminate those who are not suited to classroom work.

I do believe that tenure can protect unstable and ineffective teachers. But I also believe that percentage is very, very low. What say you?

Go read for yourself what tenure at the K-12 level actually means.

Contrary to the myth about tenure, Teachers have one of the least stable jobs of any profession.

They can be fired for just about anything.

Tenure usually gives them the right to petition to exactly the same people who fired them to begin with.

Seriously...go read the CONTRACTS about tenure and learn for yourself what it really gives teachers (not much you'll find) and get back to me.

Tenure at the K-12 level is fairly worthless as it regards keeping teachers in place.