Let's Talk About Scripture

I've seen quite a number of USMB members posting disparaging things about Christianity and/or the Bible, using various reasons and bringing up various texts.

However, every single time it's due to a wrong and misguided interpretation of them.

So let's discuss such things, or simply any texts of Scripture you may have questions about.

What makes you think you are qualified to discuss Scripture with me?

What does it take for someone to be qualified in your opinion?
 
?
What makes you think your qualified to decide who is qualified to discuss?

He can talk about whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't talk to me.

I want to know what makes him think he can actually discuss scripture with me.
I'm sorry you feel that way.

What do you think Isaiah 1:18, Isaiah - The vision concerning Judah and - Bible Gateway, meant?

What does Isaiah 1:18 have to do with this conversation?
 
In several passages in Jewish and christian texts we are commanded to educate oursekves and our children, how are we to accomplish this without going through the process of learning? Discussing openly, without bias, ie;reasoning is simply a tool we are given to use to accomplish that mitzvah.
FYI, if you can't tell already I am a Jew, I study with an interfaith group that includes more christians than Jews and have been called "bifaithful" by those in my study group. Thought you might like a little humor there. Studying with people of different faiths than mine,'reasoning' if you will, has helped me to gain more insight and understanding than studying with only fellow Jews.
I believe that comes close to the point of Isaiah 1-18

Is there an alternative to the learning process?
 
Here's an interesting question on the scriptures. What do we define as the scriptures?
 
Slack, I missed this post of yours.
Quote: Originally Posted by slackjawed
In several passages in Jewish and christian texts we are commanded to educate oursekves and our children, how are we to accomplish this without going through the process of learning? Discussing openly, without bias, ie;reasoning is simply a tool we are given to use to accomplish that mitzvah.
FYI, if you can't tell already I am a Jew, I study with an interfaith group that includes more christians than Jews and have been called "bifaithful" by those in my study group. Thought you might like a little humor there. Studying with people of different faiths than mine,'reasoning' if you will, has helped me to gain more insight and understanding than studying with only fellow Jews.
I believe that comes close to the point of Isaiah 1-18

Is there anything gleaned from the Christian faithers in your study group that you consider valid but contradicts your faith?
 
I've seen quite a number of USMB members posting disparaging things about Christianity and/or the Bible, using various reasons and bringing up various texts.

However, every single time it's due to a wrong and misguided interpretation of them.

So let's discuss such things, or simply any texts of Scripture you may have questions about.

What makes you think you are qualified to discuss Scripture with me?

What does it take for someone to be qualified in your opinion?

Not starting off a discussion by claiming everyone else is wrong.
 
There is one Almighty God. His "persuasion" is not followed by all.
Forgiveness DOES mean they are not to be brought to justice. Their sins were already paid for by Christ while on the cross they hung Him on.
God said,
Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Read Matthew 6 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Read 1 John 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Isaiah 43:25-26
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more. Review the past for me, let us argue the matter together; state the case for your innocence.
Read Isaiah 43 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Read Acts 3 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
Read Isaiah 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
Read 2 Corinthians 5 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace
Read Ephesians 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."
Read Hebrews 10 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Daniel 9:9
The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him;
Read Daniel 9 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Colossians 1:13-14
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Read Colossians 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Psalm 103:12
as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Read Psalms 103 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Numbers 14:19-21
In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now." The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth,
Read Numbers 14 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Micah 7:18-19
Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.
Read Micah 7 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Matthew 6:9-15
"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. ' For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Read Matthew 6 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. "
Read Mark 11 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


Who are you to pass judgement on any one?

What outerworld prescribed by God? Where did you come up with this foreign concept?

If belief in Christ makes me a fool, give me foolishness:
Acts 16:31 - They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
on the other hand:
John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

The Bible is the inspired word of God, proven by knowledge of things not known by man.
For example:
The scientific facts recorded in the book of Job concerning the Pleiades, Orion and Arcturus anticipated scientific discovery by nearly 3,000 years. Scientists only discovered these startling facts in the Twentieth Century, yet they were recorded in the book of Job nearly 3000 years ago. God did that over 10,000 times so you would have no leg to stand on when announcing that mere mortals are responsible for the Word.
If you are right, then do the same thing that the pen men did. Pen me some prophecy, and prove your point.

The Bible was written by forty men who did not confer with each other and yet remarkably wrote the same thing.
Now you:
Find 39 other men and each of you, independently, write a chapter to be compiled into a novel. Then bring the men together, and see if you can find any thing even remotely similar to continuity.

It is not for mankind to rediscover the truth. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden (no sin allowed) of Eden, not from the love of God. They had to move, but were never forsaken by God. In fact the first thing God did was to clothe them for the trip!
Adam and Eve knew immediately they had disobeyed God. There was no need to rediscover anything. Not for them, not for us.



our readings are taken directly from God - the Garden.

the above has no meaning and is as much influenced by the Crucifiers as everyone else and a deflection from the true path of Remission - the sole Commandment from God.
 
There is one Almighty God. His "persuasion" is not followed by all.
Forgiveness DOES mean they are not to be brought to justice. Their sins were already paid for by Christ while on the cross they hung Him on.
God said,
Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Read Matthew 6 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Read 1 John 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Isaiah 43:25-26
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more. Review the past for me, let us argue the matter together; state the case for your innocence.
Read Isaiah 43 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Read Acts 3 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
Read Isaiah 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
Read 2 Corinthians 5 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace
Read Ephesians 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."
Read Hebrews 10 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Daniel 9:9
The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him;
Read Daniel 9 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Colossians 1:13-14
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Read Colossians 1 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Psalm 103:12
as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Read Psalms 103 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Numbers 14:19-21
In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now." The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth,
Read Numbers 14 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Micah 7:18-19
Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.
Read Micah 7 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Matthew 6:9-15
"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. ' For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Read Matthew 6 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. "
Read Mark 11 | View in parallel | Compare Translations
Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


Who are you to pass judgement on any one?

What outerworld prescribed by God? Where did you come up with this foreign concept?

If belief in Christ makes me a fool, give me foolishness:
Acts 16:31 - They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
on the other hand:
John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

The Bible is the inspired word of God, proven by knowledge of things not known by man.
For example:
The scientific facts recorded in the book of Job concerning the Pleiades, Orion and Arcturus anticipated scientific discovery by nearly 3,000 years. Scientists only discovered these startling facts in the Twentieth Century, yet they were recorded in the book of Job nearly 3000 years ago. God did that over 10,000 times so you would have no leg to stand on when announcing that mere mortals are responsible for the Word.
If you are right, then do the same thing that the pen men did. Pen me some prophecy, and prove your point.

The Bible was written by forty men who did not confer with each other and yet remarkably wrote the same thing.
Now you:
Find 39 other men and each of you, independently, write a chapter to be compiled into a novel. Then bring the men together, and see if you can find any thing even remotely similar to continuity.

It is not for mankind to rediscover the truth. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden (no sin allowed) of Eden, not from the love of God. They had to move, but were never forsaken by God. In fact the first thing God did was to clothe them for the trip!
Adam and Eve knew immediately they had disobeyed God. There was no need to rediscover anything. Not for them, not for us.



our readings are taken directly from God - the Garden.

the above has no meaning and is as much influenced by the Crucifiers as everyone else and a deflection from the true path of Remission - the sole Commandment from God.

Tell me, what do you think should happen to the "Crucifiers" and should that punishment extend to their children and their children?
 
Ram, not a sole remained with Jesus - there were / are no Christians till the day the Crucifiers / Crime are brought to justice.

the year Zero is the moment injustice rules the world to this day.

there can be no Remission under the present condition as it was not God who forsaken Jesus but his followers and the criminals that was Gods intent to expose.

the mission for the followers of Gods Religion know full well the monumental task laid before them.
 
our readings are taken directly from God - the Garden.

the above has no meaning and is as much influenced by the Crucifiers as everyone else and a deflection from the true path of Remission - the sole Commandment from God.

What on earth are you talking about?
 
Ram, not a sole remained with Jesus - there were / are no Christians till the day the Crucifiers / Crime are brought to justice.

the year Zero is the moment injustice rules the world to this day.

there can be no Remission under the present condition as it was not God who forsaken Jesus but his followers and the criminals that was Gods intent to expose.

the mission for the followers of Gods Religion know full well the monumental task laid before them.

Breezie, John never left Christ's side. And there were other followers that remained with Him until He died.
As for those that hid in fear, Christ went right back to those very men. And before He left them he brought in the 3rd part of the Trinity. The power pac. The same power pac that Christ received when John baptized Him.
The fiery tongues that landed on the disciples produced different dialects enabling them to spread out and preach the Good News in all areas, in the dialects of the people they were preaching to.
As for their loyalty to Jesus, even tho it meant the same fate for them, they went boldly.
As for there being no Christians......... Christ didn't even wait to forgive His crucifiers, He forgave them while they were mocking Him on the cross. And there have been Christians ever since.
 
Ram, the event that should not have happened in a loving society, happened - forgiveness and atoning among other courses are different objectives ...

hey, at least you are not stereotyped on who were the Crucifiers - i commend your open reasoning.
 
I've seen quite a number of USMB members posting disparaging things about Christianity and/or the Bible, using various reasons and bringing up various texts.

However, every single time it's due to a wrong and misguided interpretation of them.

Really? misguided interpretation? Nice try.

Take the Bible Test!

1. How many contradictory creation of man stories are there in Genesis?

2. Did the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, Abraham, pimp his wife/half-sister?

3. Does the Bible god favor one group of people above all others?

4. How many "little children" did the bears kill that the Bible god sent because they teased Elisha about his bald head? Were the bears male or female?

5. According to the Bible, what is God's name?

6. Did the Bible god give orders to slaughter women and children?

7. Why did the Bible god in Exodus 11:10 (among other places), the blasphemous Passover horror story, "harden Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land" and then in Exodus 12:29 the Bible god killed the first born of everyone, even of the animals, to punish Pharaoh for not doing what the Bible god allegedly made impossible for him to do?

8. When the Bible god wanted to kill Moses, what did Moses' wife throw at the Bible god's feet that made him change his mind?

9. Why does Joshua 10:12-14 say the Bible god made the sun stand still to allow the Jews more time to slaughter their neighbors when in reality the sun is stationary in relation to the earth?

10. Why is II Kings 19 almost identical with Isaiah 37 and why is II Chronicles 36:22 identical to Ezra 1:1 through most of 1:3?

11. Who said they did not come to bring peace, but a sword?

12. Was Jesus supposed to return to earth during the lifetime of some of his followers?

13. Who was critical of the Jews for not following their Biblical teachings to kill their disobedient children?

14. Who said their followers must hate their families?

Find the answers at:

Bible Test
 
You can start by explaining why Jesus repeatedly stated he was NOT God, that he gained his power from God, that he was the SON of God. While you claim Jesus is really God.

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."


John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.



Evidence for God
Jesus Christ is Jehovah (YHVH)
The Deity of Jesus Christ from the Scriptures
Characteristic God or Jehovah (YHVH) OT Same Characteristic held by Jesus NT
Who is omnipotent (all powerful)? 1 Chronicles 29:11-(YHVH) Philippians 3:20-21
Who is omniscient (all knowing)? 1 John 3:20 Colossians 2:2-3
Who is omnipresent (present everywhere)? Proverbs 15:3 -(YHVH) 2 Corinthians 2:14
Who is Lord of Sabbath? Genesis 2:3- Matthew 12:8
Who is the great "I am?" Exodus 3:14-(YHVH) John 8:58
Who is the only creator? Isaiah 44:24 (YHVH) John 1:3
Who is the only savior? Isaiah 43:11, 45:21 (YHVH) Acts 4:12
Who will judge mankind? Isaiah 3:13, 14 (YHVH) 2 Corinthians 5:10
Who will judge between the sheep and goats? Ezekiel 34:17 (YHVH) Matthew 25:31-33
Who sent the prophets? Jeremiah 7:25 (YHVH) Matthew 23:34
Who resurrected Jesus? Acts 4:10 (YHVH) John 10:17-18
Who is "coming in glory?" Isaiah 40:5 (YHVH) Matthew 24:30
Who is our Father? Isaiah 63:16 (YHVH) Isaiah 9:6
Who is the "first and last?" Isaiah 44:6 (YHVH) Revelation 1:17
Who is Rock of salvation? 2 Samuel 22:32 (YHVH) 1 Corinthians 10:4
Who is Stone of stumbling? Isaiah 8:13-15 (YHVH) 1 Peter 2:8


"One crying in the wilderness" came to prepare a way for whom? Isaiah 40:3 (YHVH) Matthew 3:3
Who is eternal? Genesis 21:33 (YHVH) Micah 5:2
Who is the fountain of living waters? Jeremiah 17:13 (YHVH) John 4:10-14
Who resurrects the dead? Acts 26:8 John 6:40 Who gives rewards to man? Isaiah 40:10 (YHVH) Matthew 16:27
Who has all authority and power? 1 Chronicles 29:11 (YHVH) Matthew 28:18
Who gives power and authority to man? Psalm 68:35 Luke 9:1
Who forgives sin? 2 Chronicles 7:14 (YHVH) Matthew 9:6
Who sent the Holy Spirit? John 14:16 John 16:7
Who has the greatest name? Nehemiah 9:5 (YHVH) Philippians 2:9
Whom are we to worship? Exodus 34:14 (YHVH) Revelation 5:12-13
Who is the good Shepherd? Genesis 48:15 John 10:14
Who searches for the lost sheep of Israel? Ezekiel 34:11 (YHVH) Matthew 15:24
Who is "Lord of Lords?" Deuteronomy 10:17 (YHVH) Revelation 17:14
To whom shall every knee bow? Isaiah 45:22-23 (YHVH) Philippians 2:10
Who is the righteous branch of David? Jeremiah 23:5-6 (YHVH) Jeremiah 33:15
Who alone is Holy? 1 Samuel 2:2 (YHVH) Acts 3:14
Whose blood cleanses us? Acts 20:28 1 John 1:7
The world was created for whom? Proverbs 16:4 (YHVH) Colossians 1:16
Who is above all? Nehemiah 9:6 (YHVH) Romans 9:5
Who is forever the same? Psalms 102:24-27 Hebrews 1:8-12
Who is our light? Psalm 27:1 (YHVH) John 8:12
Who is the way or path? Psalms 16:11 (YHVH) John 14:6
Who is in charge of the angels? Psalms 103:20 (YHVH) 2 Thessalonians 1:7
Who gives us rest? Exodus 33:14 (YHVH) Matthew 11:28
Who gives eternal life? Proverbs 19:23 (YHVH) John 3:36
We are the bride of whom? Isaiah 54:5 (YHVH) 2 Corinthians 11:2
Who tests the heart and mind? Jeremiah 17:10 (YHVH) Revelation 2:23

Bible Verses Stating Jesus is God
Statement Verse
Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which translated means, "God with us." Matthew 1:23

And fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!" Luke 7:16

In the beginning was the Word...and the Word was God. John 1:1

No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18

He [Jesus]... was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18
I and the Father are one. John 10:30

The Jews answered Him [Jesus], "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." John 10:33

You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. John 13:13

Jesus said to him, "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, `Show us the Father?'" John 14:9

And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was. John 17:5

Thomas answered and said to Him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28

...the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4

...Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, Philippians 2:6

...to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, Colossians 2:9

God was manifest in the flesh... 1 Timothy 3:16

...our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15

God...in these last days has spoken to us in His Son...And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature... Hebrews 1:2-3
But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever... Hebrews 1:8

...the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; Titus 2:13

Simon Peter ... by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1

And on His robe and on His thigh He [Jesus] has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Revelation 19:16


The biblical evidence is overwhelming, Jesus IS God the Son
 
When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished." He wasn't talking about His life. He was talking about His mission. If someone hadn't nailed Him to that cross He would have nailed Himself to it. He could have turned those people into toast and hopped right down from that cross at any time, but to Jesus, our lives were more important to Him than His own.

I think if anybody is to blame for what Christ went through it is me. And you. I shudder when I think of how much time He spent in agony on that cross paying for my sins. I can't wait to tell Him how sorry I am.
 
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When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished." He wasn't talking about His life. He was talking about His mission. If someone hadn't nailed Him to that cross He would have nailed Himself to it. He could have turned those people into toast and hopped right down from that cross at any time, but to Jesus, our lives were more important to Him than His own.

I think if anybody is to blame for what Christ went through it is me. And you. I shudder when I think of how much time He spent in agony on that cross paying for my sins. I can't wait to tell Him how sorry I am.

Why wait? You can tell him now.

Side note: I thought the OP was going to be involved in the discussion more.
 

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