Lets set the record: Liberals, would you submit to Big Socialism right now??

[bucs90]

I think our debates will get much better if we simply set the record on some issues. Lets start: Liberals, would you submit to the following Big Socialism in America if it were offered tomorrow:

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.
- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.
- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.
- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.
- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).
- Government school will be free to all US residents.
- Our borders will remain open.

So thats it libs. 60% of your money goes to gov't. But, food, house, education, healthcare is guaranteed, funded and run by gov't. The rest is up to you. Would you accept it?

 

[arKangel]

Not this Liberal.

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.
- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.

Nope. How about a 0% tax rate?

- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.

Nope. How about putting usurers camping out in the rigged mortgage/credit industry to trial?

- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.

Nope. How about putting the racketeer/gangster insurance industry to trial?

- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).
- Government school will be free to all US residents.

How about disregarding the whole rigged system of so-called "higher education"?
Lots of unemployed people with degree's, and student loan debts to match.
Isn't education oh so wonderful?

- Our borders will remain open.

Ahh...
Yeah blame the guy looking for work.
Ya don't like rich people exploiting people for slave wages? Then don't buy the products.
Stop eating Tyson chicken. Then the "illegal" will go home.
WeHireAliens.com--Illegal Alien Employer Database brought to you by the FIRE Coalition

Better yet, put the rich people trying to practice slavery to the trial.
Lot easier than the "show me your papers" rah rah.

 

[topspin]

Bucs I bet that shit sells better in your trailer park than here.

 

[Madeline]

I think our debates will get much better if we simply set the record on some issues. Lets start: Liberals, would you submit to the following Big Socialism in America if it were offered tomorrow:

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.

No. This is absurdly high.

- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.
- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.

No. Owners of rental property are entitled to a fair rent. I might support subsidized housing expansion, but never unless the renters showed a need.


- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.

I have mixed feelings about this. Would it include dental, mental health care and other items now currently excluded? As you have asked it, it is not possible to reply.

- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).

I could not support a tax system that had no exemption for the poor. And BTW, I dun think $30,000 is "poor".

- Government school will be free to all US residents.

Yes, although I think post-secondary education needs to be tuition-based.

- Our borders will remain open.

No. I support sealing the borders and helping Mexico address its internal problems.

So thats it libs. 60% of your money goes to gov't. But, food, house, education, healthcare is guaranteed, funded and run by gov't. The rest is up to you. Would you accept it?

I'd support a broad-based emergency aid program for the poor, but I think those who can should work. I'd support subsistence level aid only for those who are rendered unable to work because of disability or new children, and even then, with an effort to rehabilitating or sheltering them so that some work is possible.

 

[Old Rocks]

I think our debates will get much better if we simply set the record on some issues. Lets start: Liberals, would you submit to the following Big Socialism in America if it were offered tomorrow:

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.
- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.
- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.
- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.
- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).
- Government school will be free to all US residents.
- Our borders will remain open.

So thats it libs. 60% of your money goes to gov't. But, food, house, education, healthcare is guaranteed, funded and run by gov't. The rest is up to you. Would you accept it?

Let's set the record straight. Have you Conservatives all purchased your jackboots and practiced sieg hieling enough already?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

 

[Flopper]

I think our debates will get much better if we simply set the record on some issues. Lets start: Liberals, would you submit to the following Big Socialism in America if it were offered tomorrow:

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.
- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.
- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.
- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.
- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).
- Government school will be free to all US residents.
- Our borders will remain open.

So thats it libs. 60% of your money goes to gov't. But, food, house, education, healthcare is guaranteed, funded and run by gov't. The rest is up to you. Would you accept it?

You seem to labored under the misconception that the lack of taxes and social programs are requirements for a highly entrepreneurial capitalist system. This is not true. Fortune Small Business did a study to determine the most entrepreneurial nations. Looking at the 10 most entrepreneurial nations, all nations accept one had a government support healthcare system. Most nations had higher taxes than the US. All have programs similar to Social Security.

Oh, and the US is rated the 2nd most entrepreneurial nation on earth.

10 most and least friendly countries to small business - June 1, 2007

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I think our debates will get much better if we simply set the record on some issues. Lets start: Liberals, would you submit to the following Big Socialism in America if it were offered tomorrow:

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.
- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.
- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.
We already have this for people under a certain
- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.
- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).
- Government school will be free to all US residents.
- Our borders will remain open.

So thats it libs. 60% of your money goes to gov't. But, food, house, education, healthcare is guaranteed, funded and run by gov't. The rest is up to you. Would you accept it?

No.

But what you're describing is in no way "Big Socialism". Further proving that you guys don't even know what these words mean.

I'm NOT a socialist, by the way.

 

[Luissa]

Most countries that have social programs, like Germany and England do not tax all the citizens a.t the same rate. I would be for taxing the top 1% more, along with corporations. I would also be for regulating our corporations quite a bit more, and fining them if they outsource. And if they want to make all their products outside of the US tax them even more, or treat the goods as if they are a foreign product.
I am all for going back to Pre Reagan tax rates.

 

[B. Kidd]

I think our debates will get much better if we simply set the record on some issues. Lets start: Liberals, would you submit to the following Big Socialism in America if it were offered tomorrow:

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.
- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.
- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.
- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.
- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).
- Government school will be free to all US residents.
- Our borders will remain open.

So thats it libs. 60% of your money goes to gov't. But, food, house, education, healthcare is guaranteed, funded and run by gov't. The rest is up to you. Would you accept it?

You seem to labored under the misconception that the lack of taxes and social programs are requirements for a highly entrepreneurial capitalist system. This is not true. Fortune Small Business did a study to determine the most entrepreneurial nations. Looking at the 10 most entrepreneurial nations, all nations accept one had a government support healthcare system. Most nations had higher taxes than the US. All have programs similar to Social Security.

Oh, and the US is rated the 2nd most entrepreneurial nation on earth.

10*most and least friendly countries*to small business - June 1, 2007

That was three years ago (and alot has economically changed). Where have we fallen to, since?

 

[B. Kidd]

I think our debates will get much better if we simply set the record on some issues. Lets start: Liberals, would you submit to the following Big Socialism in America if it were offered tomorrow:

- ALL citizens pay will be taxed a flat rate of 60%, all business pays same rate.
- 40% of that will go federal, 20% state, to fund government programs.
- Reduced rent housing will be provided for all non home owners.
- Healthcare will be paid for 100%. Submit your claim at hospital, response will ensue.
- Government food cards will be issued for all who net <$30,000 (18K goes to tax).
- Government school will be free to all US residents.
- Our borders will remain open.

So thats it libs. 60% of your money goes to gov't. But, food, house, education, healthcare is guaranteed, funded and run by gov't. The rest is up to you. Would you accept it?

You seem to labored under the misconception that the lack of taxes and social programs are requirements for a highly entrepreneurial capitalist system. This is not true. Fortune Small Business did a study to determine the most entrepreneurial nations. Looking at the 10 most entrepreneurial nations, all nations accept one had a government support healthcare system. Most nations had higher taxes than the US. All have programs similar to Social Security.

Oh, and the US is rated the 2nd most entrepreneurial nation on earth.

10*most and least friendly countries*to small business - June 1, 2007

Hey Dreamweaver:

"There is little evidence that the residents of some nations are more entrepreneurial than those from other countries."

People from Entrepreneurial Places | Small Business News, Tips, Advice - Small Business Trends

 

[B. Kidd]

Additionally, Flop-osis, consider yerself officially 'B. Kidd BAMM-ED'!

(Just settin' the record straight!)

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Do conservative people here think that socialism is viewed by liberals as some perfect system?
How on Earth does that make any sense to a rational human being?
It is absolutely possible to have crooked despots running a socialist economy, every bit as much as crooked despots can take control of a capitalist economy.
Socialism, fascism and capitalism can all be affected by gross incompetence, poor moral values and rotten ethics.

And in the case of Venezuela, not only do we see all three factors, we also see the general appearance of a totalitarian approach more than anything else to boot. Venezuela's economy was lopsided and poorly planned long before socialism, almost completely dependent upon oil and heavily leveraged.
Russia's system went from a collapsed communist system to heaving attempts, in fits and starts, at a rudimentary form of capitalism, which also quickly collapsed, at which point we saw a lurch into totalitarianism, and they are moving toward fascism now.

America has always had a capitalist economy, it is something that people value, and yet in the postwar era we learned that regulated capitalism was able to serve as a tool to serve the middle class. That didn't exclude the wealthy elites, it just made the playing field more fair for working families.
Now that the controls have been lifted, we've seen a forty year plunge in earning potential, a loss of upward mobility, income inequality and a loss of stability and security.
It's not that capitalism has failed, it's that the people who own the levers of capitalism have failed. They have failed to protect working families.

The disease which affects all these economic disciplines is the obsession with purity. The more purist you get, the more fundamentalist you get and the more fundamentalist you get, the more irrational you get.

Few Americans want to see us transition to a socialist economy. We don't have experience with it, so we would not be any good at running it.
What they WOULD like to see is ways to FIX our capitalist system.
Adding a minor socialist tweak to capitalism doesn't turn it into socialism, it just adds to the gene pool and creates a stronger hybrid.
Since we are historically capitalist, we should not go far with socialist tweaks at all, let capitalism be what it is.

We can't fix everything, and we're never going to have a perfect system, no matter what we try.
But that doesn't mean we can't make what we have work better for a larger number of people.

I am a liberal, and I am not itching to ditch our capitalist system for an experiment with socialism.
But I know that we used to be smart enough to know how to do the economic "chemistry" work needed to keep our capitalist system fair, and strong, for all of us.
History is there, if we want to study what worked.

 

[Flopper]

Do conservative people here think that socialism is viewed by liberals as some perfect system?
How on Earth does that make any sense to a rational human being?
It is absolutely possible to have crooked despots running a socialist economy, every bit as much as crooked despots can take control of a capitalist economy.
Socialism, fascism and capitalism can all be affected by gross incompetence, poor moral values and rotten ethics.

And in the case of Venezuela, not only do we see all three factors, we also see the general appearance of a totalitarian approach more than anything else to boot. Venezuela's economy was lopsided and poorly planned long before socialism, almost completely dependent upon oil and heavily leveraged.
Russia's system went from a collapsed communist system to heaving attempts, in fits and starts, at a rudimentary form of capitalism, which also quickly collapsed, at which point we saw a lurch into totalitarianism, and they are moving toward fascism now.

America has always had a capitalist economy, it is something that people value, and yet in the postwar era we learned that regulated capitalism was able to serve as a tool to serve the middle class. That didn't exclude the wealthy elites, it just made the playing field more fair for working families.
Now that the controls have been lifted, we've seen a forty year plunge in earning potential, a loss of upward mobility, income inequality and a loss of stability and security.
It's not that capitalism has failed, it's that the people who own the levers of capitalism have failed. They have failed to protect working families.

The disease which affects all these economic disciplines is the obsession with purity. The more purist you get, the more fundamentalist you get and the more fundamentalist you get, the more irrational you get.

Few Americans want to see us transition to a socialist economy. We don't have experience with it, so we would not be any good at running it.
What they WOULD like to see is ways to FIX our capitalist system.
Adding a minor socialist tweak to capitalism doesn't turn it into socialism, it just adds to the gene pool and creates a stronger hybrid.
Since we are historically capitalist, we should not go far with socialist tweaks at all, let capitalism be what it is.

We can't fix everything, and we're never going to have a perfect system, no matter what we try.
But that doesn't mean we can't make what we have work better for a larger number of people.

I am a liberal, and I am not itching to ditch our capitalist system for an experiment with socialism.
But I know that we used to be smart enough to know how to do the economic "chemistry" work needed to keep our capitalist system fair, and strong, for all of us.
History is there, if we want to study what worked.

I know a lot Democrats that feel just as you. Capitalism is an essential element in America but must be regulated which is exactly how most Republicans feel. The difference between the two sides is not about whether we should have unbridled capitalism or socialism but rather the right mix of the two.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

But I know that we used to be smart enough to know how to do the economic "chemistry" work needed to keep our capitalist system fair, and strong, for all of us.
History is there, if we want to study what worked.

I know a lot Democrats that feel just as you. Capitalism is an essential element in America but must be regulated which is exactly how most Republicans feel. The difference between the two sides is not about whether we should have unbridled capitalism or socialism but rather the right mix of the two.

The current crop of Republicans want the Ayn Rand/Libertarian setup. Absolutely ZERO regulations.
They're couching it in terms of an "attack on their freedom".

Capitalism is like FIRE.
We can use fire to cook our food, keep our homes warm, forge steel, etc.
We can also use FIRE to burn down entire villages, with the villagers still in it.
Listening to the Wall Street deregulation crowd, it's almost like hearing someone say that they deserve the freedom to burn down villages and eat the roasted villagers.

We have FIRE regulations for a reason. We need capitalism regulations for the same reason, it's a very powerful force of nature and humans need to function within sensible regulations because working families must be protected from the predatory elements that go along with capitalism.