Let's see if I have this right.

[MaggieMae]

Who created the messes they are trying to clean up?

I dont think the republics did anything but make the messes

Of course, it's the republicans fault the Dems gave the evil insurance companies a cash cow of a bill.

The pill bill?

They don't like to talk about that. And when one does venture into those muddy waters, they'll usually say that the Republicans made it a better bill than the Democrats offered. Uh huh. That's why it was necessary to hold the final vote open until the wee hours while Tom DeLay twisted the necks of a few holdouts. Odd that all those Republicans denouncing the fact that they had to actually work overtime on THIS bill seem to have a memory lapse.

 

[Darkwind]

The Democrats have the White House,and both houses of Congress. They had the sixty votes
necessary to pass the bill. Now I see Democrat senator after senator on MSNBC complaining about the bill.

Harry Reid on the floor of the Senate crying that while he's speaking Americans are dying
because they don't have health care.

Isn't it true that the full effect of this bill doesn't take effect until 4 years from now.

This has to be a real bad movie that we are all watching. Please people we need to get these Democrats out of power as quickly as possible.

Do you want to get the Democrats out of power to put in better Democrats or to put the Republicans back in power? If the latter, how much sooner do you estimate the Republicans would be saving those lives?

No health care bill will save lives. None.

 

[MaggieMae]

Did You read my post?....The people who put this bill together don't like it. and your answer to that is to point the finger at the Republicans....The leader of the Senate says we need to do this now and the bill doesn't kick in for 4 years,and you point the finger at the Republicans..

I give up. We are doomed as a country with these guys in power. Spend,Spend,Spend.....and have it do nothing. I can't wait for the second coronation of the boy king at the State of the Union speech when the media crowns the King....again.

Of the 60 nominal votes, not all are certain. And one of those is Lieberman..

Another is Ben Nelson who has said if his abortion amendment is tinkered with at all, he will vote no.

When this gets to conference, will those states that got special favors (my own included) have to give up the perks?

(I haven't researched this yet, but I think the added Medicaid funds for VT and MA are tied to the fact that they are the only two states that have their own quasi-universal health care coverage which is directly tied to the amount of Medicaid granted each year. Governor Douglas won the expanded grant by making the case that Vermont would do all the work; just give us the money to do it.)

 

[MaggieMae]

Did You read my post?....The people who put this bill together don't like it. and your answer to that is to point the finger at the Republicans....The leader of the Senate says we need to do this now and the bill doesn't kick in for 4 years,and you point the finger at the Republicans..

I give up. We are doomed as a country with these guys in power. Spend,Spend,Spend.....and have it do nothing. I can't wait for the second coronation of the boy king at the State of the Union speech when the media crowns the King....again.

Of the 60 nominal votes, not all are certain. And one of those is Lieberman..

It's too late now. It doesn't matter if they change their votes after the fact. The damage is done and all the Dems need now is 51 votes.

It still depends on how much the bill is hacked up in conference. If all 13 Blue Dog Dems decide not to vote for it, there goes the simple majority.

 

[MaggieMae]

If Obama and the Democrats were proud of what they were doing and knew it was the right thing, they would have done it in the full light of day, openly, and made sure all Americans fully understood the content of the legislation and give them opportunity to appreciate it. And they would have included themselves in the provisions of it.

They didn't do any of that.

Yeah right. How quickly we forget the tea partiers last summer who wouldn't ALLOW their representatives to explain anything. Yup. They knew it all.

Also, I've been able to follow along with all the changes, so why can't everyone else? Assuming you're actually interested, that is.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

It better crash, this so called "reform" bill is corrupt from top to bottom, and I can only pray we arrest everyone who said "AYE" to this travesty some day.

The insurance and drug companies love Democrats, and we haven't seen this much corruption in decades.

I guess reform was adding 30 million healthy young men and women to the insurance coffers.

I'm still trying to figure out what costs 1 dollar in this billl, never mind the 870 billion projected if Medicare cuts ever get made, which they never will. Democrats, and ONLY Democrats are now proposing a 1.3 trillion dollar plus bill for America without ANY actual reform.

I see all theses threads about the right, I would like to know if the so called "right" was ever in power, if we would be here today. It's been almost a century of the left of both political Parties destroying our nation, and the big government professionals, the DEMOCRATS are showing us how corruption is done.

 

[MaggieMae]

Jeeze. Last I heard Truth. The Dems had control of Congress for what, 50 years. You honestly don't think they are responsible for any of THIS MESS?you heard wrong

LBJ unlocked the lockbox on SS and look at the mess thats in. Last I heard Medicare and Welfare were put in place by Democratics Look at the mess those programs are in.
how many would have died without these programs
The Reps played their part as well by spending like drunken sailors when they had control of Congress. They aren't innocent but they sure didn't do anything by themselves.they pushed for deregulation and refusing to police the industry, hell bush even fought ALL 50 states governors when they tried to put in place state laws to regulate the mortgage industry state by state. Yes they got some help from assholes like Clinton who fucked us all by signing Phil Grams GLB act but its republican platform to deregulate and NOT dem platform The Dems had control for the last 2 years and they did nothing but spend as well. They are still spending with money we ain't got.
where was all your outrage when reagan was ballooning the deficit, or Bush one or Bush 2
We'll just see where this clusterfuck of a healthcare bill leads us. My guess it will be right to the poor house. The only folks who won't be affected are those who are already living on the largesse of the taxpayers of America. Their little EBT cards will always have money in em.

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

And who would pick up the hidden costs for all those elderly people who would have no place to go for care except hospital emergency rooms or hopefully find a kindly doctor who would raise his rates to cover his freebies? That argument is moot, because it's the primary problem no matter how you look at it. SOMEBODY is paying for the cost of health care for those who cannot afford it!!!

 

[MaggieMae]

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

Medicare currently stiffs doctors. They only pay a portion of the charges.

This has caused costs to rise because doctors have to charge more then normal to make up for all of the loss from unpaid bills.

I have private and government health insurance. The private pays 80% and the government pays zilch. Any wonder why health care costs have been going up?

Huh? Why should the government pay when you already have private coverage? You would need to explain your situation better for me to understand that. Usually, if you have Medicare Advantage (and that's the only scenario I can fit ito your own without knowing details) is that Medicare pays 80% and the private insurer under Medicare Advantage pays the other 20%.