Let's be Just Like The Netherlands!!

[Johnney]

You seem under the impression that you can find peace and quiet in the afterlife if you terminate your life. This is a myth.

The fact choosing to terminate your life because you dont want to deal with pain is a purely selfish act. It doesnt matter if you dont want to see a family member sit through pain. it doesnt matter if they want to sit through the pain. Neither of you has the right to terminate life for selfish reasons. Why would you want to rob your loved one of the 6 months they might have left with their loved ones?

and yo uknow this to be a myth how? because soemone told you?

and how could one of your loved ones sit there and watch you in pain for 6 months? why would they want to see you suffer? "sorry mom/dad/brother/sister/whoever else, im not ready to let you die yet so i want to see you in pain. i want to see you suffer.

yes i do have the right to terminate my life, whether it be conventional means such as knife, gun, or pills, or a host of other things. most of which would be the removal of feeding tubes and breathing assistance. it would still be my body. and you can bet yuor ass id have some type of DNR and no life support clause in my paperwork.

fuck you selfish. selfish for me not to want to suffer after however long id been in pain. if anything i feel it would be selfish of the family to keep them alive just to see them suffer.

but this is where a family plan comes into play. wants and want nots to be declaired and put into a will. so that way its clear to everyone what <b>the patients</b> wishes would be in the event that he/ she is not able to respond

 

[Bonnie]

You've been watching too much "<i>ER</i>". When a patient has a terminal illness, their condition is incurable...they are going to die. Now, it boils down to how they die. Do they die at the end of a long and debilitating terminal illness, putting but them and their families through hellish amounts of pain...? Or, do they live life to its fullest until THEY decide to shuffel off this mortal coil? It's not for you or I to decide...It is wholly their decision. It is not euthanasia...The pateint must be able to provide a written request for medications, and teir terminal condition must be certified by both their attending physician and a consulting physician. The patient, and no one else, holds decision making power as to when to take whatever medication has been prescribed.

Sure, no one is really debating that. Sleeping pills are easy for someone who is terminally ill to take on their own and go quietly in their sleep.............Why do doctors or relatives have to be the ones to carry it out??? By doing that you are bringing others into the process and now it goes from suicide to assisted murder.......Why is that such a hard distinction for you to make???

And I don't advocate suicide as a Christian, but if someone else wants to do it.....then that's their free will so be it!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

so your going to look into the eyes of some form of relative whose got some type of terminal whatever (being very vague here), that the body has built up a resistance to pain meds because they have had it so long, and has <b>at least</b> 6 months left and tell them sorry, id rather see you sit in pain for the next 6 months than have you finally find peace and quiet in the afterlife?

how noble.

this was to everyone, and no one at the same time.

A Catholic perspective:

Euthanasia (also "Mercy Killing"): "an action or omission which of itself and by intention causes death, with the purpose of eliminating all suffering.... euthanasia is a grave violation of the law of God, since it is the deliberate and morally unacceptable killing of a human person" (John Paul II, "The Gospel of Life").

Suffering at times may be a profoundly distressing experience that raises deep and troubling questions about the meaning of life and even the nature of God. How can a merciful God allow us to experience the suffering of illness? It should be comforting to reflect on the fact that God Himself entered into human suffering through His Son who suffered and died so that we could overcome death.

Suffering and death entered the world with the sin of our first parents, but Christ's obedience to the Will of His Father can now infuse these afflictions with redemptive power. By virtue of our being made one with Christ in Baptism, we can join our suffering to that of Our Savior on the Cross at Calvary and thereby assist in His work of salvation for the entire world. The suffering of illness and dying brings the Catholic a grace-filled opportunity to offer prayer for oneself, for loved ones, and for the whole human race. Christ is with us during our illness and shares in our suffering as we share in His.

For those who have lost their faith in God, the suffering and helplessness of serious illness make little sense. Some may even come to contemplate suicide or euthanasia. Why should one endure the pain of illness when death is the end of all meaning and purpose? Others who accept the existence of God wrongly believe that He does not care whether we shorten our lives. The immorality of harming the great good of human life, however, should be apparent even to those without faith. The testimony of Sacred Scripture and the constant teaching of the Catholic Tradition speak against ever directly intending one's own death. The Catholic, with a deep faith in Jesus Christ, may not be able to understand his suffering, but he knows he can offer it up as a powerful prayer.

Human life is an inviolable gift from God. Our love of God and His creation should cause us to shun any thought of violating this great gift through suicide or euthanasia. We read in Wisdom: "God did not make death, nor does He rejoice in the destruction of the living. For He fashioned all things that they may have being" [1:13]. St. Paul teaches us: "If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord" [Romans 14:8].

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/mis/mis_11endlifedecisions.html

 

[Johnney]

A Catholic perspective:

Euthanasia (also "Mercy Killing"): "an action or omission which of itself and by intention causes death, with the purpose of eliminating all suffering.... euthanasia is a grave violation of the law of God, since it is the deliberate and morally unacceptable killing of a human person" (John Paul II, "The Gospel of Life").

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/mis/mis_11endlifedecisions.html

not trying to tell you to stuff religeon, but not everyone believes it. and until it can be proven to the last letter as true, i have comic books that says different.

to let someone suffer so you can feel better about yourself is the most selfish thing there is.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

not trying to tell you to stuff religeon, but not everyone believes it. and until it can be proven to the last letter as true, i have comic books that says different.

to let someone suffer so you can feel better about yourself is the most selfish thing there is.

Is it really? If you open the door to euthanasia for what YOU consider to be a merciful thing, are you not opening the door to other types of killing which you may absolutely abhor, yet OTHERS consider to be good? (think abortion just for starters)

 

[MissileMan]

I didn't get an answer, so I'll ask the question again. How is the shortening of someone's life by artificial means any different than maintaining or extending someone's life by artificial means? Is it OK to alter nature's course or not?

 

[no1tovote4]

I didn't get an answer, so I'll ask the question again. How is the shortening of someone's life by artificial means any different than maintaining or extending someone's life by artificial means? Is it OK to alter nature's course or not?

IMO both would depend entirely on the wishes and beliefs of the person being treated.

 

[Johnney]

Is it really? If you open the door to euthanasia for what YOU consider to be a merciful thing, are you not opening the door to other types of killing which you may absolutely abhor, yet OTHERS consider to be good? (think abortion just for starters)

ok, ill bite. abortion should be choice. we can debate this one til were bluein the face. your going to say no, and im going to say yes.
and how did we get to equating mercy killing to abortion? jsut because you (not you actually) wanted to be a whore for a night and got knocked up. abortion isnt about a birth control option. but then again this isnt abotu abortion

so do yo umind telling me why you see letting someone suffer for 6 months because you dont want to let go the right thing to do?

 

[Bullypulpit]

You seem to totally be missing the point. They have no more right to take their own life than does anyone else. How on earth can you live life to the fullest if you terminate your life? The whole concept is illogical.

Oh and btw if you are going to quote scripture, you might want to choose one that you could possibly find some sort of connection to the topic on.

Why don't they have the right to end their lives at a time of their choosing? And still, you miss the point of quality of life versus quantity of life. You have no quality of life when you are on scheduled MS Contin, 100mg Q6hours with 20-40mg of Roxinal Q2hours for breakthrough pain and 100mcg/hour Duragesic patches every three days and are still in excruciating pain. If you call that living life to tis fullest, then I truly do pity you.

As for the scriptural quote, it was relevant to your own lack of compassion.

 

[Johnney]

Why don't they have the right to end their lives at a time of their choosing? And still, you miss the point of quality of life versus quantity of life. You have no quality of life when you are on scheduled MS Contin, 100mg Q6hours with 20-40mg of Roxinal Q2hours for breakthrough pain and 100mcg/hour Duragesic patches every three days and are still in excruciating pain. If you call that living life to tis fullest, then I truly do pity you.

what he said.

damn, ive agreed with bully and civilliberty in the same week, i must be slipping

 

[dilloduck]

Why don't they have the right to end their lives at a time of their choosing? And still, you miss the point of quality of life versus quantity of life. You have no quality of life when you are on scheduled MS Contin, 100mg Q6hours with 20-40mg of Roxinal Q2hours for breakthrough pain and 100mcg/hour Duragesic patches every three days and are still in excruciating pain. If you call that living life to tis fullest, then I truly do pity you.

As for the scriptural quote, it was relevant to your own lack of compassion.

How about someone who is having just a damn terrible day cause they broke up with their boyfriend? Do you draw the line somewhere or should everyone have the right to opt out of life simply because it is THEIR life ?

 

[no1tovote4]

what he said.

damn, ive agreed with bully and civilliberty in the same week, i must be slipping

Yes, I have found myself in much the same predicament.

 

[Bullypulpit]

How about someone who is having just a damn terrible day cause they broke up with their boyfriend? Do you draw the line somewhere or should everyone have the right to opt out of life simply because it is THEIR life ?

I don't think you could get an attending and a consulting physician to agree that breaking up with one's significant other is a medical condition where the generally expected outcome will be the patient's demise in 6 months or less. Your simile does not apply. Here's your sign.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't think you could get an attending and a consulting physician to agree that breaking up with one's significant other is a medical condition where the generally expected outcome will be the patient's demise in 6 months or less. Your simile does not apply. Here's your sign.

"Generally expected outcome "--now there's a precise diagnosis if I ever saw one. :teeth:

 

[Bullypulpit]

"Generally expected outcome "--now there's a precise diagnosis if I ever saw one. :teeth:

When dealing with terminal illness, that's the best one can do. There is no certainty here. It is important, though, to give patients facing the end of life a choice as to how and when they wish to die. For a breakdown of the untilization of this option, go <a href=http://www.ohd.hr.state.or.us/chs/pas/ar-index.cfm>here</a>.

It provides a break down of the number of patients, 171 in five years, who have taken this option. The median time between the patient's first request and their taking the medications is 36 to 43 days. That is also close to the median for the time patients are on hospice services before they pass.

So, you see, this is not something which the patients or physicians take lightly. The disease processes involved are painful, debilitating and not at all pleasant. Having witnessed patients suffering from most of the maladies listed, I can attest to that. The emotional and physical toll it takes on patients and their families is tremendous. If that burden can be lessened, why should the patients not have that option?

 

[dilloduck]

When dealing with terminal illness, that's the best one can do. There is no certainty here. It is important, though, to give patients facing the end of life a choice as to how and when they wish to die. For a breakdown of the untilization of this option, go <a href=http://www.ohd.hr.state.or.us/chs/pas/ar-index.cfm>here</a>.

It provides a break down of the number of patients, 171 in five years, who have taken this option. The median time between the patient's first request and their taking the medications is 36 to 43 days. That is also close to the median for the time patients are on hospice services before they pass.

So, you see, this is not something which the patients or physicians take lightly. The disease processes involved are painful, debilitating and not at all pleasant. Having witnessed patients suffering from most of the maladies listed, I can attest to that. The emotional and physical toll it takes on patients and their families is tremendous. If that burden can be lessened, why should the patients not have that option?

very simple---pain and suffering are a part of life that should not be treated so lightly. To just let everyone who opts to end pain and suffering by choosing death would certainly set a very poor example for those who will HAVE to experience it also.

 

[freeandfun1]

What about THIS woman? She would have been killed years ago based on what many of you are advocating.

 

[no1tovote4]

What about THIS woman? She would have been killed years ago based on what many of you are advocating.

Since she couldn't have made the request and her death was not immenent she would not have been killed. Also since she was able to come out of the coma there must have been brain activity during the intervening time. This would not have met the criteria presented earlier in this debate where it was put forward that the criteria would meet the same limits that it takes to get into a hospice.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why don't they have the right to end their lives at a time of their choosing? And still, you miss the point of quality of life versus quantity of life. You have no quality of life when you are on scheduled MS Contin, 100mg Q6hours with 20-40mg of Roxinal Q2hours for breakthrough pain and 100mcg/hour Duragesic patches every three days and are still in excruciating pain. If you call that living life to tis fullest, then I truly do pity you.

As for the scriptural quote, it was relevant to your own lack of compassion.

For some reason people want to think living life to its fullest means only enjoying the good points. But thats not what it means. it means you live as long as you possibly can experiencing all that you possibily can. Pain is part of life. You cant live life to its fullest if you dont experience pain. It isn't a part of life most of us like going through, but its a necessity to experience life in its fullest part.

I have no lack of compassion for these people. You misunderstand me if you think that. By prematurely taking your life you lose the opportunity to experience a tough, but important part of life. You lose the opportunity to spend time with your family. You rob them of the opportunities to love you and for you to love them.

I think the problem is you misunderstand compassion and chairty. Sometimes the compassionate thing is not to take away the difficulties facing people but to care for them and help them overcome it. True compassion and charity sometimes mean you have to let people have tough painful experiences that will make them better off rather than cripple them, their future, or even destroy both before they realize what they are doing.

I hope someday you do learn that. but if you insist on doing the mote beam analysis, you might want to stop being so hateful before you start lecturing others on compassion.

 

[manu1959]

Since she couldn't have made the request and her death was not immenent she would not have been killed. Also since she was able to come out of the coma there must have been brain activity during the intervening time. This would not have met the criteria presented earlier in this debate where it was put forward that the criteria would meet the same limits that it takes to get into a hospice.

once again you seem to be the only one in the room that is actually paying attention and working from the facts .... keep up the good work...oh and congrats on the fifty