Let's Assume Iraq Had WMD

[William Joyce]

Because so many of the neocon light brigade are convinced that there were, in fact, donkey carts of mass destruction in Iraq. I mean, WEAPONS of mass destruction. OK. God, I hate the sound of that, "weapons of mass destruction." It's ambiguity and propaganda at the same time - what kind of weapons? oh! ones of MASS DESTRUCTION! Honey! What will we ever do?

OK, sorry for the mini-rant. Back to the hypo. Iraq had, let's say, a fully capable set of nuclear missiles. Ahem. Alright. Now. Query: so what? Israel has that, and we don't seem to mind.

Neocon ninny: But Israel is our f-f-f-fwend! Right. Tell that to the families of the men killed on the U.S.S. Liberty. Anway.

Lots of countries have nukes. Why is Iraq special?

Neocon ninny: Iraq attacked Kuwait. And Saddam Hussein "murdered his own people" (again, the bleating repetition of this stupid mantra makes me want to smack someone, but I rant again).

Let's see. Israel attacks other countries. And Ariel Sharon murders those around him. What's the difference? Anyone?

Here's the difference: Israel gets a pass because of the Jewish lobby in the U.S. Iraq does not. Moreover, neocons aim the U.S. toward Israel's enemies in the middle east for the same reason Israel gets a pass: the Jewish lobby.

America, it's time to drop the Jewish lobby.

 

[bamthin]

I'm all for that. They do nothing for us but soak up the largest percentage of foreign aid. Our support for them has caused us nothing but trouble and the benefits have been nil.

I have proposed offering asylum and citizenship in the US for any Israeli that wants it and then cutting them loose to fend for themselves.

-Bam

 

[jones]

Don't forget, if we dropped Sharon, we would lose the majority of the terrorist threat.

 

[wonderwench]

You are both completely delusional.

Fundamental Radical Islamics have declared war on Western Civilization. Israel is the only true bastion of Western Civilzation in the Middle East. Abandoning Israel would just embolden the jihadists.

I do believe that Israel has overplayed its hand. Time to withdraw from the occupied terrorities and for Israel to recognize the boundaries per the U.N. All Israel is doing now is giving the fanatics ammunition.

 

[jones]

Originally posted by wonderwench
You are both completely delusional.

Fundamental Radical Islamics have declared war on Western Civilization. Israel is the only true bastion of Western Civilzation in the Middle East. Abandoning Israel would just embolden the jihadists.

I do believe that Israel has overplayed its hand. Time to withdraw from the occupied terrorities and for Israel to recognize the boundaries per the U.N. All Israel is doing now is giving the fanatics ammunition.

Thats why we need to put pressure on them to withdraw and abide by UN boundries.
This and the policy of pre-emption embolden the jihadists.

 

[William Joyce]

I disagree, ww.

The West (Europe and progeny) has had tangles with Islam going back to the Crusades, but those fights were strictly two-way. Israel, meanwhile, has a very different agenda. It is also no "bastion of the West" --- it's a racially exclusive state for Jews, no ifs, ands or buts. White men need not apply, Arabs will kept out by fence. Tell me, ww, if Israel is such a great friend of mine, WHY DON'T I QUALIFY FOR CITIZENSHIP?

But you can see that is would be extremely convenient for Jews to convince the U.S. that "our fight is your fight." Hence, neoconnism. It's like the weakest, scrawniest geek in the school tugging on the tough kid's shirt and saying, "Hey there, buddy!" Meanwhile, the geek wouldn't care if the tough kid tripped and fell on a rake --- he just needs the muscle. Like Tonto said to the Lone Ranger: "What's this 'we', Kemosabe"?

We don't need Israel. They need us. Problem is, there is no rational or moral reason for us to support them. It's purely a product of manipulation, lies, and devastatingly effective information control.

 

[nbdysfu]

Originally posted by William Joyce
The West (Europe and progeny) has had tangles with Islam going back to the Crusades, but those fights were strictly two-way. Israel, meanwhile, has a very different agenda. It is also no "bastion of the West" --- it's a racially exclusive state for Jews, no ifs, ands or buts. White men need not apply, Arabs will kept out by fence. Tell me, ww, if Israel is such a great friend of mine, WHY DON'T I QUALIFY FOR CITIZENSHIP?
________________ _________________
I dunno, maybe you've been donating to Hezbollah or something?

Israel demographics
from the cia

Nationality:
noun: Israeli(s)
adjective: Israeli
Ethnic groups:
Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly Arab) (1996 est.)
Religions:
Jewish 80.1%, Muslim 14.6% (mostly Sunni Muslim), Christian 2.1%, other 3.2% (1996 est.)
Languages:
Hebrew (official), Arabic used officially for Arab minority, English most commonly used foreign language
Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 95.4%
male: 97.3%
female: 93.6% (2003 est.)



Suffrage:
18 years of age; universal

Originally posted by William Joyce
But you can see that is would be extremely convenient for Jews to convince the U.S. that "our fight is your fight." Hence, neoconnism. It's like the weakest, scrawniest geek in the school tugging on the tough kid's shirt and saying, "Hey there, buddy!" Meanwhile, the geek wouldn't care if the tough kid tripped and fell on a rake --- he just needs the muscle. Like Tonto said to the Lone Ranger: "What's this 'we', Kemosabe"?
_______________ _______________

Are you suggesting we should not help the weak and defenseless against the primitive school bully, so as to save the uber-child's arms for the heil?

Originally posted by William Joyce

We don't need Israel. They need us. Problem is, there is no rational or moral reason for us to support them. It's purely a product of manipulation, lies, and devastatingly effective information control.
_______________ ________________


"...Its the JOOS!"

 

[William Joyce]

They're not weak and defenseless, unless their lies are exposed. Which is pretty much a damn hard thing to do, so they don't have much to worry about.

 

[nbdysfu]

what lies are you referring to?

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by wonderwench
You are both completely delusional.

Fundamental Radical Islamics have declared war on Western Civilization. Israel is the only true bastion of Western Civilzation in the Middle East. Abandoning Israel would just embolden the jihadists.

I do believe that Israel has overplayed its hand. Time to withdraw from the occupied terrorities and for Israel to recognize the boundaries per the U.N. All Israel is doing now is giving the fanatics ammunition.

I don't see them helping us take out their worst nightmare.

Leaked document exposes pro-Israel lobby's manipulation of US public
Introduction by Ali Abunimah, The Electronic Intifada, 25 April 2003


The Electronic Intifada has obtained, and today publishes in full, a document prepared for pro-Israel activists by the public relations firm The Luntz Research Companies and The Israel Project. The document spells out the tactics that Israel and its US advocates should use to maintain support for Israel and its hardline policies.

The document, entitled "Wexner Analysis: Israeli Communication Priorities 2003," counsels pro-Israel advocates to keep invoking the name of Saddam Hussein, and to stress that Israel "was always behind American efforts to rid the world of this ruthless dictator and liberate their people." Despite his solid support for Israel and Ariel Sharon, the document warns pro-Israel advocates not to compliment or praise President Bush. At the same time it acknowledges that Yasser Arafat has been a great asset to Israel because "he looks the part" of a "terrorist." The installation of Mahmoud Abbas as Palestinian prime minister, and potential replacement for Arafat, comes "at the wrong time," because he has the potential to improve the image of the Palestinians, and that could put the onus on Israel to return to negotiations. The document advises supporters of Israel to appear to affect a "balanced" tone, but admits that in arguing for Israel's policies, the illegal "settlements are our Achilles heel," for which there is no good defense.

The document was commissioned by the Wexner Foundation, a private foundation that funds, among other pro-Israel initiatives, "Birthright Israel," a program that pays for young American Jews to take free trips to Israel. The Israel Project is an initiative of pro-Israel organizations, political consultants and businesspeople. The Luntz Research Companies is a leading public relations and opinion research firm.

Here is some of the key advice the document provides to Israel and its advocates:


"Iraq colors all. Saddam is your best defense, even if he is dead. The worldview [of] Americans is entirely dominated by developments in Iraq. This is a unique opportunity for Israelis to deliver a message of support and unity at a time of great international anxiety and opposition from some of our European "allies." For a year - a SOLID YEAR - you should be invoking the name of Saddam Hussein and how Israel was always behind American efforts to rid the world of this ruthless dictator and liberate their people."


"The fact that Israel has remained relatively silent for the three months preceding the war and for the three weeks of the war was absolutely the correct strategy - and according to all the polling done, it worked. But as the military conflict comes to a close, it is now time for Israel to lay out its own "road map" for the future which includes unqualified support for America and unqualified commitment to an ongoing war against terrorism."


"It DOES NOT HELP when you compliment President Bush. When you want to identify with and align yourself with America, just say it. Don't use George Bush as a synonym for the United States. Even with the destruction of the Hussein regime and all the positive reactions from the Iraqi people, there still remains about 20% of America that opposes the Iraqi war, and they are overwhelmingly Democrat. That leaves about half the Democrats who support the war even if they don't support George Bush. You antagonize the latter half unnecessarily every time you compliment the President. Don't do it."


""SECURITY" sells. Security has become the key fundamental principle for all Americans. Security is the context by which you should explain Israeli need for loan guarantees and military aid, as well as why Israel can't just give up land. The settlements are our Achilles heel, and the best response (which is still quite weak) is the need for security that this buffer creates."

 

[nbdysfu]

originally posted by bamthin
I don't see them helping us take out their worst nightmare.

Leaked document exposes pro-Israel lobby's manipulation of US public
Introduction by Ali Abunimah,---> The Electronic Intifada,<--- 25 April 2003

____________________ _____________________

? They wouldn't be biased would they?

Apparently the EI claims the origins of the doc. I searched for an hour and couldn't find anything more credible than motherjones referencing it.

The part about arafat being good pr is funny.

I also agree with the analysis that the settlements are the weakpoint, not the wall. If the walls were built around all of israel proper including 'palestinian' areas, you would have a problem, because it would give no defense against suicide bombers and would be viewable only as expansionism. I could just imagine the pr as 'palestine' refugees flee from the 'palestinian' lands back to their homelands in Syria and Lebanon. They would have been able to make an Iron Curtain out of it. As it stands, its only practical.