Let's ask the Obvious: Who's stupid enough to deliver 2000 weapons to drug lords?

[mudwhistle]

I've just noticed something about this whole "Fast and Furious" thing.

They've admitted that people don't kill people, guns killl people.

And that apparently, if these guns hadn't gotten away from this sting, these Mexican drug lords never would have gotten guns from anywhere else... like the thousands of guns they buy from US gun shops even now.

This was a pretty stupid operation, but it didn't start with Obama and HOlder. It's just another screwup on the part of the ATF, trying to validate its existence. The "Gunwalking" operations on the border actually go back to the Bush years.

my guess, Obama is just screwing with Issa to get the GOP to embrace the crazies, and then he'll release the documents and there will be nothing in them.

Yeah.......right.....uh-huh.

This is all just a partisan witch-hunt.

Are you one of those rimjobbers that thinks they would have gotten the guns somewhere else anyway so no crime was committed???

 

[salem.hills]

Well let's ask the obvious question here. Who's STUPID enough to deliver 2000 semi-automatic weapons to violent Mexican drug cartels?

No one is--including the ATF under the direction of Eric Holder--that is (without a hidden agenda.)

I can clearly remember Obama standing at the border--saying that Americans were selling guns to Mexican drug cartels. Well it turns out his own ATF was doing that. None of these guns had any TRACKING devices on them--so why would Obama & Eric Holder do that?

Was the plan to talk about all these DEAD BODIES in Mexico--so they could assault the 2nd amendment to the U.S. Constitution? But it blew up in their faces when 3 ATF whistle blowers started talking.

Is this why Eric Holder ADMITTED that if these documents that he didn't release--were released it would get very embarrassing for this administration? I think so. There is no other rational explanation for Fast and Furious.

Yep. Seems rather odd that Bush's program had the cooperation of the Mexican authorities and a way to track the weapons.

Holders had neither.

Guess its easy to see who the fucking idiot was.

 

[JoeB131]

I've just noticed something about this whole "Fast and Furious" thing.

They've admitted that people don't kill people, guns killl people.

And that apparently, if these guns hadn't gotten away from this sting, these Mexican drug lords never would have gotten guns from anywhere else... like the thousands of guns they buy from US gun shops even now.

This was a pretty stupid operation, but it didn't start with Obama and HOlder. It's just another screwup on the part of the ATF, trying to validate its existence. The "Gunwalking" operations on the border actually go back to the Bush years.

my guess, Obama is just screwing with Issa to get the GOP to embrace the crazies, and then he'll release the documents and there will be nothing in them.

Yeah.......right.....uh-huh.

This is all just a partisan witch-hunt.

Are you one of those rimjobbers that thinks they would have gotten the guns somewhere else anyway so no crime was committed???

Well, I thought that was your guy's point about guns anyway. Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns? I mean, that's why you think that a crazy guy like Jared Loughner should be allowed to walk into a gun show and get a gun with no background check or nothin'. Because actually finding out who is buying guns is a violation of their good old 2nd Amendment right that only exists in your head.

Incidently, before any of you bitter clingers go all nuts, I am against gun control for the same reason that I'm against overturning Roe v. Wade. Because those laws never work, anyway. I just think most of the reasons you offer as to why you need a gun are kind of silly.

But Holder offered Issa the ability to review the documents in private, and Issa refused. He wants his public show. Now if Issa was really about getting at the truth, why not just review the documents in private and see if there's anything there?

This is a lot of political theatre, and it will probably backfire on the Republicans.

 

[chanel]

Backfire on the Republicans? Obama's executive privilege will be challenged in the courts, and most likely overturned. The truth will come out before November.

If Obama was not involved, he would not have tried to hide the documents. He's famous for throwing his buddies under the bus. It would be completely out of character for him to have done this to protect Holder.

Stay tuned...

 

[JoeB131]

Backfire on the Republicans? Obama's executive privilege will be challenged in the courts, and most likely overturned. The truth will come out before November.

If Obama was not involved, he would not have tried to hide the documents. He's famous for throwing his buddies under the bus. It would be completely out of character for him to have done this to protect Holder.

Stay tuned...

Ummm... not really. Usually the courts uphold the President's right to cite Executive privilege... The only exception post-Nixon was Clinton's actions in the Lewinsky scandal, that involved his personal conduct.

Ah, yes, for those good old days, when we had 4% unemployment, and the worst thing we had to worry about was whether the president was getting his knob polished.

Executive privilege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, given this is the first time in 3 1/2 years Obama has invoked Executive privilage, I'm not expecting your memory to go back that far.

 

[SayMyName]

There has been speculation that the Obama administration wanted an operation like this to manifest a public response requiring more gun control. It will be seen if this comes to fruition. I suspect that it will not.

 

[salem.hills]

Backfire on the Republicans? Obama's executive privilege will be challenged in the courts, and most likely overturned. The truth will come out before November.

If Obama was not involved, he would not have tried to hide the documents. He's famous for throwing his buddies under the bus. It would be completely out of character for him to have done this to protect Holder.

Stay tuned...

That's the best point yet and evidence against comrade Obama or whatever his name is lol Soerento ...

 

[The Rabbi]

I've just noticed something about this whole "Fast and Furious" thing.

They've admitted that people don't kill people, guns killl people.

And that apparently, if these guns hadn't gotten away from this sting, these Mexican drug lords never would have gotten guns from anywhere else... like the thousands of guns they buy from US gun shops even now.

This was a pretty stupid operation, but it didn't start with Obama and HOlder. It's just another screwup on the part of the ATF, trying to validate its existence. The "Gunwalking" operations on the border actually go back to the Bush years.

my guess, Obama is just screwing with Issa to get the GOP to embrace the crazies, and then he'll release the documents and there will be nothing in them.

Yeah.......right.....uh-huh.

This is all just a partisan witch-hunt.

Are you one of those rimjobbers that thinks they would have gotten the guns somewhere else anyway so no crime was committed???

Well, I thought that was your guy's point about guns anyway. Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns? I mean, that's why you think that a crazy guy like Jared Loughner should be allowed to walk into a gun show and get a gun with no background check or nothin'. Because actually finding out who is buying guns is a violation of their good old 2nd Amendment right that only exists in your head.

Incidently, before any of you bitter clingers go all nuts, I am against gun control for the same reason that I'm against overturning Roe v. Wade. Because those laws never work, anyway. I just think most of the reasons you offer as to why you need a gun are kind of silly.

But Holder offered Issa the ability to review the documents in private, and Issa refused. He wants his public show. Now if Issa was really about getting at the truth, why not just review the documents in private and see if there's anything there?

This is a lot of political theatre, and it will probably backfire on the Republicans.

Loughner bought his gun legally. He was not prohibited when he bought it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Backfire on the Republicans? Obama's executive privilege will be challenged in the courts, and most likely overturned. The truth will come out before November.

If Obama was not involved, he would not have tried to hide the documents. He's famous for throwing his buddies under the bus. It would be completely out of character for him to have done this to protect Holder.

Stay tuned...

Ummm... not really. Usually the courts uphold the President's right to cite Executive privilege... The only exception post-Nixon was Clinton's actions in the Lewinsky scandal, that involved his personal conduct.

Ah, yes, for those good old days, when we had 4% unemployment, and the worst thing we had to worry about was whether the president was getting his knob polished.

Executive privilege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, given this is the first time in 3 1/2 years Obama has invoked Executive privilage, I'm not expecting your memory to go back that far.

He can cite EP for things he's involved with. Holder already testified under oath that Obama was not involved in them.
SO which is it?

A friend of mine thinks F&F was actually planned this way. The idea was to arm one cartel faction against another one and let them duke it out and weaken each other. And then it blew up when border patrol agents got involved and killed.
I dont know whether that is true or not. It is merely speculation. I am more inclined to believe the administration was displaying its well known incompetence.

 

[JoeB131]

Loughner bought his gun legally. He was not prohibited when he bought it.

Exactly the point.

Loughner was allowed to walk into a gun store and buy a gun legally, even though he had been thrown off his campus for being batshit crazy.

Jared Lee Loughner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zach Osler, a high school classmate of Loughner's, and his closest friend, indicated that Loughner's life began to unravel after his high school girlfriend broke up with him, and he then began to abuse alcohol and drugs, specifically Salvia divinorum (a natural hallucinogen illegal in some states).[13] Another longtime friend, Kylie Smith, added that he had used cannabis (marijuana), psychedelic mushrooms, and LSD around that same time.[14] Loughner quit using marijuana (as well as alcohol and tobacco) in late 2008 and has not used it since, according to one of his longtime friends.[15] The U.S. Army confirmed that Loughner had been rejected as "unqualified" for service in 2008.[16][17][18] According to military sources, Loughner admitted to marijuana use on numerous occasions during the application process.[6]

From February to September 2010, while a student at Pima Community College, Loughner had five contacts with college police for classroom and library disruptions. On September 29, 2010, college police also discovered a YouTube video shot by Loughner, in which his spoken commentary stated that the college was illegal according to the United States Constitution. He described his school as "one of the biggest scams in America". The video led to Loughner being suspended from the school.[20] The college told Loughner that if he wanted to come back to school, he needed to resolve his code of conduct violations and obtain a mental health clearance (indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, that his presence did not constitute a danger to himself or others). On October 4, Loughner and his parents met with campus administrators and Loughner indicated he would withdraw from the college.[19] During Loughner's time at Pima, a teacher and a classmate both said they thought he might commit a school shooting.[21]

Yup, that guy should totally be able to buy a gun with no background check.

 

[The Rabbi]

Loughner bought his gun legally. He was not prohibited when he bought it.

Exactly the point.

Loughner was allowed to walk into a gun store and buy a gun legally, even though he had been thrown off his campus for being batshit crazy.

Jared Lee Loughner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zach Osler, a high school classmate of Loughner's, and his closest friend, indicated that Loughner's life began to unravel after his high school girlfriend broke up with him, and he then began to abuse alcohol and drugs, specifically Salvia divinorum (a natural hallucinogen illegal in some states).[13] Another longtime friend, Kylie Smith, added that he had used cannabis (marijuana), psychedelic mushrooms, and LSD around that same time.[14] Loughner quit using marijuana (as well as alcohol and tobacco) in late 2008 and has not used it since, according to one of his longtime friends.[15] The U.S. Army confirmed that Loughner had been rejected as "unqualified" for service in 2008.[16][17][18] According to military sources, Loughner admitted to marijuana use on numerous occasions during the application process.[6]

From February to September 2010, while a student at Pima Community College, Loughner had five contacts with college police for classroom and library disruptions. On September 29, 2010, college police also discovered a YouTube video shot by Loughner, in which his spoken commentary stated that the college was illegal according to the United States Constitution. He described his school as "one of the biggest scams in America". The video led to Loughner being suspended from the school.[20] The college told Loughner that if he wanted to come back to school, he needed to resolve his code of conduct violations and obtain a mental health clearance (indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, that his presence did not constitute a danger to himself or others). On October 4, Loughner and his parents met with campus administrators and Loughner indicated he would withdraw from the college.[19] During Loughner's time at Pima, a teacher and a classmate both said they thought he might commit a school shooting.[21]

Yup, that guy should totally be able to buy a gun with no background check.

Idiot.
He was able to buy a gun with a background check. What did that prove? There was nothing that prohibited Loughner from buying a gun. Legally.

 

[JoeB131]

He can cite EP for things he's involved with. Holder already testified under oath that Obama was not involved in them.
SO which is it?

A friend of mine thinks F&F was actually planned this way. The idea was to arm one cartel faction against another one and let them duke it out and weaken each other. And then it blew up when border patrol agents got involved and killed.
I dont know whether that is true or not. It is merely speculation. I am more inclined to believe the administration was displaying its well known incompetence.

So your friends are crazy and paranoid, too?

Just sayin'.

 

[JoeB131]

Loughner bought his gun legally. He was not prohibited when he bought it.

Exactly the point.

Loughner was allowed to walk into a gun store and buy a gun legally, even though he had been thrown off his campus for being batshit crazy.

Jared Lee Loughner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zach Osler, a high school classmate of Loughner's, and his closest friend, indicated that Loughner's life began to unravel after his high school girlfriend broke up with him, and he then began to abuse alcohol and drugs, specifically Salvia divinorum (a natural hallucinogen illegal in some states).[13] Another longtime friend, Kylie Smith, added that he had used cannabis (marijuana), psychedelic mushrooms, and LSD around that same time.[14] Loughner quit using marijuana (as well as alcohol and tobacco) in late 2008 and has not used it since, according to one of his longtime friends.[15] The U.S. Army confirmed that Loughner had been rejected as "unqualified" for service in 2008.[16][17][18] According to military sources, Loughner admitted to marijuana use on numerous occasions during the application process.[6]

From February to September 2010, while a student at Pima Community College, Loughner had five contacts with college police for classroom and library disruptions. On September 29, 2010, college police also discovered a YouTube video shot by Loughner, in which his spoken commentary stated that the college was illegal according to the United States Constitution. He described his school as "one of the biggest scams in America". The video led to Loughner being suspended from the school.[20] The college told Loughner that if he wanted to come back to school, he needed to resolve his code of conduct violations and obtain a mental health clearance (indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, that his presence did not constitute a danger to himself or others). On October 4, Loughner and his parents met with campus administrators and Loughner indicated he would withdraw from the college.[19] During Loughner's time at Pima, a teacher and a classmate both said they thought he might commit a school shooting.[21]

Yup, that guy should totally be able to buy a gun with no background check.

Idiot.
He was able to buy a gun with a background check. What did that prove? There was nothing that prohibited Loughner from buying a gun. Legally.

And I know, that's the problem.

He was able to buy a gun, with his history, totally legally.

And carry it on his person. Because Arizona is a concealed carry state, another thing you nutters think is a wonderful idea.

But hey, you might need to take down the government, so the more crazy people with guns, the better.

 

[peach174]

It's just as crazy that some Dems in congress, are pushing for more gun control over the Fast and furious thing, when no U.S. citizens were involved with this.
This was the Government who did this, not the U.S. Citizens. Yet they want to take away more guns for law abiding citizens.

 

[JoeB131]

It's just as crazy that some Dems in congress, are pushing for more gun control over the Fast and furious thing, when no U.S. citizens were involved with this.
This was the Government who did this, not the U.S. Citizens. Yet they want to take away more guns for law abiding citizens.

Really?

Frankly, the democrats have been crapping their pants at the thought of offending the NRA for years.

Even after one of their own got shot in the head, Congressional Democrats couldn't come up with any laws to try to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Exactly the point.

Loughner was allowed to walk into a gun store and buy a gun legally, even though he had been thrown off his campus for being batshit crazy.

Jared Lee Loughner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Yup, that guy should totally be able to buy a gun with no background check.

Idiot.
He was able to buy a gun with a background check. What did that prove? There was nothing that prohibited Loughner from buying a gun. Legally.

And I know, that's the problem.

He was able to buy a gun, with his history, totally legally.

And carry it on his person. Because Arizona is a concealed carry state, another thing you nutters think is a wonderful idea.

But hey, you might need to take down the government, so the more crazy people with guns, the better.

A small correction or 2...

Loughner bought his gun LEGALLY, WITH a background check.

Arizona is an OPEN carry state, meaning you can strap one on your hip or over your shoulder WITHOUT a 'permit'.

From Wiki... "Concealed carry, or CCW (carrying a concealed weapon), refers to the practice of carrying a handgun or other weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in proximity.

While there is no federal law specifically addressing the issuance of concealed carry permits, 49 states have passed laws allowing citizens to carry certain concealed firearms in public, either without a permit or after obtaining a permit from local government and/or law enforcement.[1] Illinois is the only state without such a provision."

Illinois won't allow it, and we see how well that works out in the Windy City, right?

 

[JoeB131]

Idiot.
He was able to buy a gun with a background check. What did that prove? There was nothing that prohibited Loughner from buying a gun. Legally.

And I know, that's the problem.

He was able to buy a gun, with his history, totally legally.

And carry it on his person. Because Arizona is a concealed carry state, another thing you nutters think is a wonderful idea.

But hey, you might need to take down the government, so the more crazy people with guns, the better.

A small correction or 2...

Loughner bought his gun LEGALLY, WITH a background check.

Arizona is an OPEN carry state, meaning you can strap one on your hip or over your shoulder WITHOUT a 'permit'.

From Wiki... "Concealed carry, or CCW (carrying a concealed weapon), refers to the practice of carrying a handgun or other weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in proximity.

While there is no federal law specifically addressing the issuance of concealed carry permits, 49 states have passed laws allowing citizens to carry certain concealed firearms in public, either without a permit or after obtaining a permit from local government and/or law enforcement.[1] Illinois is the only state without such a provision."

Illinois won't allow it, and we see how well that works out in the Windy City, right?

As I've said, gun laws for the most part don't work.

Which is why they are silly.

But the fact is, a character like Loughner can go into a gun store and buy a gun s hows the laws are too lax. Whether or not he passed a background check or not is immaterial. The background c heck obviously wasn't thorough enough.

 

[peach174]

It's just as crazy that some Dems in congress, are pushing for more gun control over the Fast and furious thing, when no U.S. citizens were involved with this.
This was the Government who did this, not the U.S. Citizens. Yet they want to take away more guns for law abiding citizens.

Really?

Frankly, the democrats have been crapping their pants at the thought of offending the NRA for years.

Even after one of their own got shot in the head, Congressional Democrats couldn't come up with any laws to try to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

Maloney and Connolly plus several others, prove you wrong.
It also brings more proof that this is what Fast and Furious was really all about.
House Dems focus on gun control in Fast and Furious hearing | WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[The Rabbi]

Exactly the point.

Loughner was allowed to walk into a gun store and buy a gun legally, even though he had been thrown off his campus for being batshit crazy.

Jared Lee Loughner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Yup, that guy should totally be able to buy a gun with no background check.

Idiot.
He was able to buy a gun with a background check. What did that prove? There was nothing that prohibited Loughner from buying a gun. Legally.

And I know, that's the problem.

He was able to buy a gun, with his history, totally legally.

And carry it on his person. Because Arizona is a concealed carry state, another thing you nutters think is a wonderful idea.

But hey, you might need to take down the government, so the more crazy people with guns, the better.

He had no history. If he had a history he wouldn't have been able to buy the gun. Having people say you're crazy is not sufficient grounds to deny someone a constitutional right. Just like being stupid. I think you're dumb as rocks but I would never say you ought to have your rights stripped because your IQ is less than a leek's.

 

[The Rabbi]

And I know, that's the problem.

He was able to buy a gun, with his history, totally legally.

And carry it on his person. Because Arizona is a concealed carry state, another thing you nutters think is a wonderful idea.

But hey, you might need to take down the government, so the more crazy people with guns, the better.

A small correction or 2...

Loughner bought his gun LEGALLY, WITH a background check.

Arizona is an OPEN carry state, meaning you can strap one on your hip or over your shoulder WITHOUT a 'permit'.

From Wiki... "Concealed carry, or CCW (carrying a concealed weapon), refers to the practice of carrying a handgun or other weapon in public in a concealed manner, either on one's person or in proximity.

While there is no federal law specifically addressing the issuance of concealed carry permits, 49 states have passed laws allowing citizens to carry certain concealed firearms in public, either without a permit or after obtaining a permit from local government and/or law enforcement.[1] Illinois is the only state without such a provision."

Illinois won't allow it, and we see how well that works out in the Windy City, right?

As I've said, gun laws for the most part don't work.

Which is why they are silly.

But the fact is, a character like Loughner can go into a gun store and buy a gun s hows the laws are too lax. Whether or not he passed a background check or not is immaterial. The background c heck obviously wasn't thorough enough.

No, the background check was thorough. Loughner had nothing in his background that would have prohibited him from purchasing.
Saying this for the 3rd time now.
What kind of background check would you like to see? Asking ex wives? Former employers? Kindergarten teachers?
As you point out, gun control laws don't work.