LET THE FORCE BE WITH YOU

[doniston1]

So now Bohr's atom is wrong?

was it proved or theory?

 

[RandomVariable]

So now Bohr's atom is wrong?

Q A Bohr model revisited Department of Physics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

...
Evalyn- You raise an interesting question. Although the Bohr model is often used to give a cartoon illustration of atoms, it has not actually been accepted as a good model of atoms since about 1925. Here are some of the things it gets wrong.
...
The Bohr model appears in many textbooks because it can be shown in pictures, unlike the actual situation.
...

 

[doniston1]

I guess I am called an atheist

To start at the beginning. When I was 13, and starting High school, I and the whole auditorium of kids were informed of the makeup of an atom by a guest lecturer, It was explained how the parts of the atom,--Nucleus, Electrons, and Positrons were comparable to our own solar system with comparatively speaking, as much space between the particles as there is between the sun and the planets, thus, if it wasn't for some presently unknown magnetic force, you could pass one thru the other without fear of colision . Thus you could also pass one hand right thru the other. This started me on my road to knowledge. Further, Science has told us that solids, (matter) is simply energy which has become relatively stationary, thus the mini universes with all their relative space, because of some magnetic force become solid and perhaps a part of our bodies.as fingers, toes, and kidneys.


At that time it was taught that there were millions of stars in the universe, and many universes Now we know there are untold billions of stars in the universe, and billions of universes. And in the past few years they are finding a multitude of planets around these stars. This is where the first ofthree unanswerable questions come in. HOW FAR IS UP” & WHERE ARE WE?
Einstein said that space is curved thus implying it is like a ball. I don't believe that. As we know space, it is between this and that. Beween two walls, then two fields—two towns, , two countries, two planets, two stars, two galaxies. But what is on the other side of that last viewed galaxy ??? a stone wall? another series of galaxies? We simply don't know, and when we arrive at that point, what is on the other side of that? And where are we located.? --In a ball of matter of unimaginable size? And then,of course, where is that ball of mud???

We have also learned that within these atoms (mini solar systems) in a much smaller scale are particles which could (repeat) COULD be be like “ mini micro” solar systems in turn, made up of even smaller particles but similar to our own? Is it possible that our present solar system is simply an atom in a gigantic organism so huge that we can't comprehend? WE JUST DON'T KNOW

Science has also informed us that in each of the galaxies there is a so-called black hole that is so dense that even light can't escape.( Thus,it is called a BLACK hole.) Contrary to my own belief, these holes swallow up all matter in it's vicinity to become even larger and denser, and if it
came close enough to this planet, it would eat us up. Hmm! Yet in billions of years we, and the milky way are still here. Further knowledge of the present beliefs concerning black holes lead me to believe that at some point the Black hole becomes unstable, and emits a stream of energy known as a “quazar” It is believed that the stream of energy later slows down and become matter ---which in turn becomes stars and ultimately, with planets.

The big bang theory suggests that this all started with an exclamation point of nothingless and exploded to become the universe. I do beieive that what might really have happenedwas that there was a multitude of miniature big bangs called quazars, which in our own case created the milky way. To me, that is my original “CREATOR” except that before that there had to be other Galaxies which had black holes which emitted quarzars, etc. thus the 2nd unanswerable question

“ WHO or WHAT BEGAT THE BEGATOR”

(and it continues to who or what begat it. I simple don't believe it was a grey haired man looking down on us from above.
Some weeks ago I was watching the beginning of a 12 part miniseries led by a preacher who promised an insight into the disparages between Creationism, and Evolution. I am always trying to learn, so I tuned in, The first introduction was interesting enough that I tuned into the 2nd. However when he started explaining that Tyrantisourus Rex roamed the earth in the past several thousand years, and god had somehow sped up time to cause those bones to petrify, and be buried far below the surface, I ceased tuning in.
I realize that many religous people still believe that God created earth several thousand years ago, but I believe there is an abundance of evidence that it simply isn't true. There are Ruins of structures scientifically dated back as much as twelve thousand years, and many of those ruins and structures are built with such precision that primative man could not have accomplished --such as stonework carving which appear to have been cut by lasers They are so intricly and precisely carved it could only have been done with
something like a laser. (But supposedly there was no lasers back then). Throughout the world, there are structures similar in nature to have been planned and designed by the same persons in places of the world so distant and
remote as to be literally impossible for our primativesto have raveled there, For instance,some 12 years ago, the remains of a fourth pyramid was discovered, and is now being excavated. One which would have been larger than
the so-called Tower of Gisa, and not only was it constructed, it was also destroyed,and most of the massive blocks of stone with which it was constructed have somehow disappeared. ----WHERE?? and HOW??

PAUSE!!!!

I'm going to change my approach to this issue to an installment process because I see it is going to be much longer and complicated than I thought. Therefore, I will indicate a future set of related issues for later instalment with some preliminary incite as to their content,

BUT BEWARE, I will likely upset some of your most cherished Religious beliefs with my future offering such as:
Proof that the world wide flood could not have happened ( to a -more localized area,like the Black sea area, one is likely)
That Alien lifeforms are likely here and have been almost forever, and have played agreat role in our development and culture
Most specifically, that the story of Jesus is a near duplicate of the story of a simila rperson and circumstances, referenced in ancient Hebrew texts at least two thousand years before Christ. And that tho the Bible is a greatsource of history, There is scientific proof of, and reasons for many of the Bible stories.

In the meantime I will go back to the start of this thread, and attempt to answer all of my soon to be detractor's present questions.

I'LL BE BAAAAACK!!

​

Time-space is curved, though not ball shape.

WARNING: information on following link is extremely technical and will make your brains melt. Gave me a headache. Most of you though, your brains will melt.

Curious About Astronomy What is the universe expanding into

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Want responses learn how to post only what you're quoting and responding to, and not the gazillion others making everything unreadable.

 

[Moonglow]

Theory...The Bohr model works well for very simple atoms such as hydrogen (which has 1 electron) but not for more complex atoms. Although the Bohr model is still used today, especially in elementary textbooks, a more sophisticated (and complex) model — the quantum mechanical model — is used much more frequently.
Went damn far for a theory....

 

[doniston1]

I guess I am called an atheist

To start at the beginning. When I was 13, and starting High school, I and the whole auditorium of kids were informed of the makeup of an atom by a guest lecturer, It was explained how the parts of the atom,--Nucleus, Electrons, and Positrons were comparable to our own solar system with comparatively speaking, as much space between the particles as there is between the sun and the planets, thus, if it wasn't for some presently unknown magnetic force, you could pass one thru the other without fear of colision . Thus you could also pass one hand right thru the other. This started me on my road to knowledge. Further, Science has told us that solids, (matter) is simply energy which has become relatively stationary, thus the mini universes with all their relative space, because of some magnetic force become solid and perhaps a part of our bodies.as fingers, toes, and kidneys.


At that time it was taught that there were millions of stars in the universe, and many universes Now we know there are untold billions of stars in the universe, and billions of universes. And in the past few years they are finding a multitude of planets around these stars. This is where the first ofthree unanswerable questions come in. HOW FAR IS UP” & WHERE ARE WE?
Einstein said that space is curved thus implying it is like a ball. I don't believe that. As we know space, it is between this and that. Beween two walls, then two fields—two towns, , two countries, two planets, two stars, two galaxies. But what is on the other side of that last viewed galaxy ??? a stone wall? another series of galaxies? We simply don't know, and when we arrive at that point, what is on the other side of that? And where are we located.? --In a ball of matter of unimaginable size? And then,of course, where is that ball of mud???

We have also learned that within these atoms (mini solar systems) in a much smaller scale are particles which could (repeat) COULD be be like “ mini micro” solar systems in turn, made up of even smaller particles but similar to our own? Is it possible that our present solar system is simply an atom in a gigantic organism so huge that we can't comprehend? WE JUST DON'T KNOW

Science has also informed us that in each of the galaxies there is a so-called black hole that is so dense that even light can't escape.( Thus,it is called a BLACK hole.) Contrary to my own belief, these holes swallow up all matter in it's vicinity to become even larger and denser, and if it
came close enough to this planet, it would eat us up. Hmm! Yet in billions of years we, and the milky way are still here. Further knowledge of the present beliefs concerning black holes lead me to believe that at some point the Black hole becomes unstable, and emits a stream of energy known as a “quazar” It is believed that the stream of energy later slows down and become matter ---which in turn becomes stars and ultimately, with planets.

The big bang theory suggests that this all started with an exclamation point of nothingless and exploded to become the universe. I do beieive that what might really have happenedwas that there was a multitude of miniature big bangs called quazars, which in our own case created the milky way. To me, that is my original “CREATOR” except that before that there had to be other Galaxies which had black holes which emitted quarzars, etc. thus the 2nd unanswerable question

“ WHO or WHAT BEGAT THE BEGATOR”

(and it continues to who or what begat it. I simple don't believe it was a grey haired man looking down on us from above.
Some weeks ago I was watching the beginning of a 12 part miniseries led by a preacher who promised an insight into the disparages between Creationism, and Evolution. I am always trying to learn, so I tuned in, The first introduction was interesting enough that I tuned into the 2nd. However when he started explaining that Tyrantisourus Rex roamed the earth in the past several thousand years, and god had somehow sped up time to cause those bones to petrify, and be buried far below the surface, I ceased tuning in.
I realize that many religous people still believe that God created earth several thousand years ago, but I believe there is an abundance of evidence that it simply isn't true. There are Ruins of structures scientifically dated back as much as twelve thousand years, and many of those ruins and structures are built with such precision that primative man could not have accomplished --such as stonework carving which appear to have been cut by lasers They are so intricly and precisely carved it could only have been done with
something like a laser. (But supposedly there was no lasers back then). Throughout the world, there are structures similar in nature to have been planned and designed by the same persons in places of the world so distant and
remote as to be literally impossible for our primativesto have raveled there, For instance,some 12 years ago, the remains of a fourth pyramid was discovered, and is now being excavated. One which would have been larger than
the so-called Tower of Gisa, and not only was it constructed, it was also destroyed,and most of the massive blocks of stone with which it was constructed have somehow disappeared. ----WHERE?? and HOW??

PAUSE!!!!

I'm going to change my approach to this issue to an installment process because I see it is going to be much longer and complicated than I thought. Therefore, I will indicate a future set of related issues for later instalment with some preliminary incite as to their content,

BUT BEWARE, I will likely upset some of your most cherished Religious beliefs with my future offering such as:
Proof that the world wide flood could not have happened ( to a -more localized area,like the Black sea area, one is likely)
That Alien lifeforms are likely here and have been almost forever, and have played agreat role in our development and culture
Most specifically, that the story of Jesus is a near duplicate of the story of a simila rperson and circumstances, referenced in ancient Hebrew texts at least two thousand years before Christ. And that tho the Bible is a greatsource of history, There is scientific proof of, and reasons for many of the Bible stories.

In the meantime I will go back to the start of this thread, and attempt to answer all of my soon to be detractor's present questions.

I'LL BE BAAAAACK!!

​

Time-space is curved, though not ball shape.

WARNING: information on following link is extremely technical and will make your brains melt. Gave me a headache. Most of you though, your brains will melt.

Curious About Astronomy What is the universe expanding into

I disagree, but then, I disagreed with that portion of Einsteins heory. Light curves, and there is viisibable proof but there has ben nothing I have read which proves to me that space is curved I have lts of questions, but that is nor one of them..

 

[doniston1]

The force has been with me for years. I've tried to get rid of it, but it won't leave.

Tried shaving?

I imagine that question is in reference to my avatar. actually that is a picture of me, but please stay on issue.

 

[RandomVariable]

Theory...The Bohr model works well for very simple atoms such as hydrogen (which has 1 electron) but not for more complex atoms. Although the Bohr model is still used today, especially in elementary textbooks, a more sophisticated (and complex) model — the quantum mechanical model — is used much more frequently.
Went damn far for a theory....

He starts his enlightened thread with a comparison between a cartoon representation of an atom and the solar system. Which does not even work for the hydrogen atom given the nature of the electron. Dumbing stuff down is not an issue unless one has to change the fundamental nature of the thing to do so. It does not make it any more credible or accurate if it is taught in every elementary school textbook in the country. All that does is speaks to the condition of our education system in this country.

 

[Moonglow]

The force has been with me for years. I've tried to get rid of it, but it won't leave.

Tried shaving?

I imagine that question is in reference to my avatar. actually that is a picture of me, but please stay on issue.

Hello Izzy...

 

[Moonglow]

Theory...The Bohr model works well for very simple atoms such as hydrogen (which has 1 electron) but not for more complex atoms. Although the Bohr model is still used today, especially in elementary textbooks, a more sophisticated (and complex) model — the quantum mechanical model — is used much more frequently.
Went damn far for a theory....

He starts his enlightened thread with a comparison between a cartoon representation of an atom and the solar system. Which does not even work for the hydrogen atom given the nature of the electron. Dumbing stuff down is not an issue unless one has to change the fundamental nature of the thing to do so. It does not make it any more credible or accurate if it is taught in every elementary school textbook in the country. All that does is speaks to the condition of our education system in this country.

So you are trying, in a long winded fashion, to state that Bohr's atom model was useless?

 

[doniston1]

I guess I am called an atheist

To start at the beginning. When I was 13, and starting High school, I and the whole auditorium of kids were informed of the makeup of an atom by a guest lecturer, It was explained how the parts of the atom,--Nucleus, Electrons, and Positrons were comparable to our own solar system with comparatively speaking, as much space between the particles as there is between the sun and the planets, thus, if it wasn't for some presently unknown magnetic force, you could pass one thru the other without fear of colision . Thus you could also pass one hand right thru the other. This started me on my road to knowledge. Further, Science has told us that solids, (matter) is simply energy which has become relatively stationary, thus the mini universes with all their relative space, because of some magnetic force become solid and perhaps a part of our bodies.as fingers, toes, and kidneys.


At that time it was taught that there were millions of stars in the universe, and many universes Now we know there are untold billions of stars in the universe, and billions of universes. And in the past few years they are finding a multitude of planets around these stars. This is where the first ofthree unanswerable questions come in. HOW FAR IS UP” & WHERE ARE WE?
Einstein said that space is curved thus implying it is like a ball. I don't believe that. As we know space, it is between this and that. Beween two walls, then two fields—two towns, , two countries, two planets, two stars, two galaxies. But what is on the other side of that last viewed galaxy ??? a stone wall? another series of galaxies? We simply don't know, and when we arrive at that point, what is on the other side of that? And where are we located.? --In a ball of matter of unimaginable size? And then,of course, where is that ball of mud???

We have also learned that within these atoms (mini solar systems) in a much smaller scale are particles which could (repeat) COULD be be like “ mini micro” solar systems in turn, made up of even smaller particles but similar to our own? Is it possible that our present solar system is simply an atom in a gigantic organism so huge that we can't comprehend? WE JUST DON'T KNOW

Science has also informed us that in each of the galaxies there is a so-called black hole that is so dense that even light can't escape.( Thus,it is called a BLACK hole.) Contrary to my own belief, these holes swallow up all matter in it's vicinity to become even larger and denser, and if it
came close enough to this planet, it would eat us up. Hmm! Yet in billions of years we, and the milky way are still here. Further knowledge of the present beliefs concerning black holes lead me to believe that at some point the Black hole becomes unstable, and emits a stream of energy known as a “quazar” It is believed that the stream of energy later slows down and become matter ---which in turn becomes stars and ultimately, with planets.

The big bang theory suggests that this all started with an exclamation point of nothingless and exploded to become the universe. I do beieive that what might really have happenedwas that there was a multitude of miniature big bangs called quazars, which in our own case created the milky way. To me, that is my original “CREATOR” except that before that there had to be other Galaxies which had black holes which emitted quarzars, etc. thus the 2nd unanswerable question

“ WHO or WHAT BEGAT THE BEGATOR”

(and it continues to who or what begat it. I simple don't believe it was a grey haired man looking down on us from above.
Some weeks ago I was watching the beginning of a 12 part miniseries led by a preacher who promised an insight into the disparages between Creationism, and Evolution. I am always trying to learn, so I tuned in, The first introduction was interesting enough that I tuned into the 2nd. However when he started explaining that Tyrantisourus Rex roamed the earth in the past several thousand years, and god had somehow sped up time to cause those bones to petrify, and be buried far below the surface, I ceased tuning in.
I realize that many religous people still believe that God created earth several thousand years ago, but I believe there is an abundance of evidence that it simply isn't true. There are Ruins of structures scientifically dated back as much as twelve thousand years, and many of those ruins and structures are built with such precision that primative man could not have accomplished --such as stonework carving which appear to have been cut by lasers They are so intricly and precisely carved it could only have been done with
something like a laser. (But supposedly there was no lasers back then). Throughout the world, there are structures similar in nature to have been planned and designed by the same persons in places of the world so distant and
remote as to be literally impossible for our primativesto have raveled there, For instance,some 12 years ago, the remains of a fourth pyramid was discovered, and is now being excavated. One which would have been larger than
the so-called Tower of Gisa, and not only was it constructed, it was also destroyed,and most of the massive blocks of stone with which it was constructed have somehow disappeared. ----WHERE?? and HOW??

PAUSE!!!!

I'm going to change my approach to this issue to an installment process because I see it is going to be much longer and complicated than I thought. Therefore, I will indicate a future set of related issues for later instalment with some preliminary incite as to their content,

BUT BEWARE, I will likely upset some of your most cherished Religious beliefs with my future offering such as:
Proof that the world wide flood could not have happened ( to a -more localized area,like the Black sea area, one is likely)
That Alien lifeforms are likely here and have been almost forever, and have played agreat role in our development and culture
Most specifically, that the story of Jesus is a near duplicate of the story of a simila rperson and circumstances, referenced in ancient Hebrew texts at least two thousand years before Christ. And that tho the Bible is a greatsource of history, There is scientific proof of, and reasons for many of the Bible stories.

In the meantime I will go back to the start of this thread, and attempt to answer all of my soon to be detractor's present questions.

I'LL BE BAAAAACK!!

​

Time-space is curved, though not ball shape.

WARNING: information on following link is extremely technical and will make your brains melt. Gave me a headache. Most of you though, your brains will melt.

Curious About Astronomy What is the universe expanding into

 

[RandomVariable]

Theory...The Bohr model works well for very simple atoms such as hydrogen (which has 1 electron) but not for more complex atoms. Although the Bohr model is still used today, especially in elementary textbooks, a more sophisticated (and complex) model — the quantum mechanical model — is used much more frequently.
Went damn far for a theory....

He starts his enlightened thread with a comparison between a cartoon representation of an atom and the solar system. Which does not even work for the hydrogen atom given the nature of the electron. Dumbing stuff down is not an issue unless one has to change the fundamental nature of the thing to do so. It does not make it any more credible or accurate if it is taught in every elementary school textbook in the country. All that does is speaks to the condition of our education system in this country.

So you are trying, in a long winded fashion, to state that Bohr's atom model was useless?

Yep.

(Not really. This is so far off topic I could really not care less.)

 

[Moonglow]

you could just let the thread die....

 

[RandomVariable]

you could just let the thread die....

And go join the 'Peter the Rock' thread? No thanks. At least this guy's OP was a little shorter, not by much however. This is a new guy and I want to see what he is made of. So far it's goin' great.

 

[doniston1]

The force has been with me for years. I've tried to get rid of it, but it won't leave.

Tried shaving?

I imagine that question is in reference to my avatar. actually that is a picture of me, but please stay on issue.

Hello Izzy...

So why was it posted to me.

 

[doniston1]

Theory...The Bohr model works well for very simple atoms such as hydrogen (which has 1 electron) but not for more complex atoms. Although the Bohr model is still used today, especially in elementary textbooks, a more sophisticated (and complex) model — the quantum mechanical model — is used much more frequently.
Went damn far for a theory....

He starts his enlightened thread with a comparison between a cartoon representation of an atom and the solar system. Which does not even work for the hydrogen atom given the nature of the electron. Dumbing stuff down is not an issue unless one has to change the fundamental nature of the thing to do so. It does not make it any more credible or accurate if it is taught in every elementary school textbook in the country. All that does is speaks to the condition of our education system in this country.

So you are trying, in a long winded fashion, to state that Bohr's atom model was useless?

Yep.

(Not really. This is so far off topic I could really not care less.)

Me too. I wonder if I had mentioned wet, would someone have posted something about their baby's diaper???

 

[doniston1]

Theory...The Bohr model works well for very simple atoms such as hydrogen (which has 1 electron) but not for more complex atoms. Although the Bohr model is still used today, especially in elementary textbooks, a more sophisticated (and complex) model — the quantum mechanical model — is used much more frequently.
Went damn far for a theory....

He starts his enlightened thread with a comparison between a cartoon representation of an atom and the solar system. Which does not even work for the hydrogen atom given the nature of the electron. Dumbing stuff down is not an issue unless one has to change the fundamental nature of the thing to do so. It does not make it any more credible or accurate if it is taught in every elementary school textbook in the country. All that does is speaks to the condition of our education system in this country.

Frankly, I couldn't care less. If you want a discussion about Atoms, start you own thread. This one is philisophical

 

[RandomVariable]

you could just let the thread die....

And go join the 'Peter the Rock' thread? No thanks. At least this guy's OP was a little shorter, not by much however. This is a new guy and I want to see what he is made of. So far it's goin' great.

This is how threads like this work. Some person, either new or not, with start some thread with all caps for a title and make some long arrogant OP about how he, and no one else, has unlocked the key to the universe. I have no issue with that, I have started way too many of those myself. But then the OP has to either back up the shock-n-awe with a little fire power or get bumped around by more seasoned posters. What inevitably ends up happening is someone will kick off a topic which is slightly related to the OP, Bohr's model is not, and the thread will spring to life. Hopefully the OP will stick around, take his lumps, and enjoy the game. Or they just could be a dick to everyone.

 

[doniston1]

you could just let the thread die....

That would solve your problem wouldn't it. then you wouldn't have to worry that someone might agree with me, and put some doubts in your mind, you appear to be trying to hijact the thread. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Moonglow]

you could just let the thread die....

And go join the 'Peter the Rock' thread? No thanks. At least this guy's OP was a little shorter, not by much however. This is a new guy and I want to see what he is made of. So far it's goin' great.

This is how threads like this work. Some person, either new or not, with start some thread with all caps for a title and make some long arrogant OP about how he, and no one else, has unlocked the key to the universe. I have no issue with that, I have started way too many of those myself. But then the OP has to either back up the shock-n-awe with a little fire power or get bumped around by more seasoned posters. What inevitably ends up happening is someone will kick off a topic which is slightly related to the OP, Bohr's model is not, and the thread will spring to life. Hopefully the OP will stick around, take his lumps, and enjoy the game. Or they just could be a dick to everyone.

Only time will tell....