Let States Go Bankrupt

[Vanquish]

Wait a second...what happened to the party of personal responsibility.

Now we're letting entire states say..."uhm we can't pay. sorry" and it's ok?

wow.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Wait a second...what happened to the party of personal responsibility.

Now we're letting entire states say..."uhm we can't pay. sorry" and it's ok?

wow.

Restructuring under bankruptcy is an acceptable, necessary alternative to, uhm debtors prisons?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

So why couldn't we have let GM, the banks and Wall St go bancrupt instead?

Reasonable logic and I confer. But we were told that if we didn't it would be the end.

 

[uscitizen]

Tragic while that may be, there is an old saying.. "that which cannot continue, will not continue."

There ain't no mo money.

If there's money to do a billion dollar deal with Raytheon to build missile defense systems that don't work..then there is money to pay the pensions of ex-firechiefs and other government employees..that PAID into the system.

Psssst! There's no money for that either, yet that isn't why it was cut, we all know that.

And spare me the boo hoo over Fire Chiefs. Where I live these guys make MEGA BUCKS between salary and details and get very generous pensions that they DO NOT pay into. Many public servants collect pensions far longer than they worked.

Sure lets talk of cutting off military pensions and see what happens?

Or maybe the firemen just quit and your house burns down, you will be runing for a lawyer.

As long as it is someone else...

 

[Oddball]

Wait a second...what happened to the party of personal responsibility.

Now we're letting entire states say..."uhm we can't pay. sorry" and it's ok?

wow.

No..."The party of personal responsibility" never really was for that.....Otherwise, they wouldn't cling to drug laws, prostitution laws, and throw in with the anti-smoking Nazis and environmentalist wacklaloons.

BTW, that "personal responsibility" thingy says that you can either live within your means and pay your bills, or go bankrupt....It doesn't mean that Big Daddy Big Gubmint comes running to the rescue with a bailout, every time you run your credit card up to the point that you cannot possibly pay the bill.

 

[Oddball]

If there's money to do a billion dollar deal with Raytheon to build missile defense systems that don't work..then there is money to pay the pensions of ex-firechiefs and other government employees..that PAID into the system.

Psssst! There's no money for that either, yet that isn't why it was cut, we all know that.

And spare me the boo hoo over Fire Chiefs. Where I live these guys make MEGA BUCKS between salary and details and get very generous pensions that they DO NOT pay into. Many public servants collect pensions far longer than they worked.

Sure lets talk of cutting off military pensions and see what happens?

Military pensions aren't jack shit, compared to what lardassed AFSCME moochers (who've never produced a thing or served their country) are knocking down.

Pretty lame attempt at hiding your foolishness behind the military, yet again....Even for you.

 

[Jeremy]

Pffft. Berry will NEVER run out of wooden nickels.

 

[Political Junky]

A dream come true for Norquist.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

If there's money to do a billion dollar deal with Raytheon to build missile defense systems that don't work..then there is money to pay the pensions of ex-firechiefs and other government employees..that PAID into the system.

Psssst! There's no money for that either, yet that isn't why it was cut, we all know that.

And spare me the boo hoo over Fire Chiefs. Where I live these guys make MEGA BUCKS between salary and details and get very generous pensions that they DO NOT pay into. Many public servants collect pensions far longer than they worked.

Sure lets talk of cutting off military pensions and see what happens?

Or maybe the firemen just quit and your house burns down, you will be runing for a lawyer.

As long as it is someone else...

Oh good grief. You always want to stick it to the military as a first resort.. why?

 

[uscitizen]

Psssst! There's no money for that either, yet that isn't why it was cut, we all know that.

And spare me the boo hoo over Fire Chiefs. Where I live these guys make MEGA BUCKS between salary and details and get very generous pensions that they DO NOT pay into. Many public servants collect pensions far longer than they worked.

Sure lets talk of cutting off military pensions and see what happens?

Military pensions aren't jack shit, compared to what lardassed AFSCME moochers (who've never produced a thing or served their country) are knocking down.

Pretty lame attempt at hiding your foolishness behind the military, yet again....Even for you.

Pentagon spending on health care has increased from $19 billion in 2001 to a projected $50.7 billion in 2011, a 167% increase.

Military's health care costs booming - USATODAY.com

Looking for the retiree pay costs, as I recall it was around 7% of what the the total pay for active duty personnel is.

 

[Oddball]

Sure lets talk of cutting off military pensions and see what happens?

Military pensions aren't jack shit, compared to what lardassed AFSCME moochers (who've never produced a thing or served their country) are knocking down.

Pretty lame attempt at hiding your foolishness behind the military, yet again....Even for you.

Pentagon spending on health care has increased from $19 billion in 2001 to a projected $50.7 billion in 2011, a 167% increase.

Military's health care costs booming - USATODAY.com

Looking for the retiree pay costs, as I recall it was around 7% of what the the total pay for active duty personnel is.

Uh-huh....And what's eating the hell out of state budgets?....Pensions for AFSCME bureaucrats, that's what.

Like I said...Pretty weak try, even for you.

 

[Jeremy]

Sure lets talk of cutting off military pensions and see what happens?

Military pensions aren't jack shit, compared to what lardassed AFSCME moochers (who've never produced a thing or served their country) are knocking down.

Pretty lame attempt at hiding your foolishness behind the military, yet again....Even for you.

Pentagon spending on health care has increased from $19 billion in 2001 to a projected $50.7 billion in 2011, a 167% increase.

Military's health care costs booming - USATODAY.com

Looking for the retiree pay costs, as I recall it was around 7% of what the the total pay for active duty personnel is.

Please explain how cutting the military budget will help a state's bottom line.

 

[asaratis]

Best thing to do is to let the bankrupt states claim bankruptcy. They can then renegotiate the union contracts that bankrupted them. If the federal government bails them out, they will just go bankrupt later.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

After two years of bailouts, “stimulus” spending, TARP and earmarks, the country took a deep breath and is now beginning a discussion about the unsustainable trajectory of federal expenditures and the reforms necessary to right the country’s fiscal ship.

This is all good and healthy. However, Washington is not the only place with an overspending problem. We are now starting to see greater attention being paid to the dire financial straits of state governments — which pose just as grave a threat to the country.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who knows what it’s like to begin fixing a state where profligacy has carried the day for far too long, said on “60 Minutes” last Sunday, that, for states, the “day of reckoning has arrived.”

This day of reckoning has convinced policy experts, political observers and some on Capitol Hill that federal legislation allowing states to file bankruptcy might be the only way to avoid a federal bailout of the most fiscally reckless states in the union.

Opinion: Let states go bankrupt - Grover G. Norquist and Patrick Gleason - POLITICO.com

State, unlike federal, budgets, cannot run as deficits. “Virtually all states have balanced budget requirements, so they must take actions to close these deficits.” (State Budget Deficits for Fiscal Year 2004 are Huge and Growing, Revised 1/23/03) So, what to do? Simple: conjecture a better world!

a. In 2008, states reported that their public-employee pensions were underfunded by a total of $438 billion. But independent estimates say the underfunding is closer to $3 trillion. Why? The states make up estimates of return at unbelievable levels: the median investment return factored in by state pensions is 8% a year! AEI - The Market Value of Public-Sector Pension Deficits

b. “The official state estimate in underfunded pension liabilities to New Jersey’s public workers stands at $46 billion. It is one of the highest liabilities in the nation, averaging $5,200 per capita. The estimate is based on an assumed rate of return on pension assets of 8.25 percent –“ National Taxpayers Union - Overvalued and Underfunded: New Jersey?s Pension Time Bomb

c. Now, what happens if the state cannot pay the pensions? Taxpayers are legally obligated to make up any difference between what’s been promised and what can actually be paid. Pension Pulse: Pension Woes May Deepen Financial Crisis

Now, where is the government going to get all of the money necessary to cover the promises made to unions?

Have you seen this:
"Obama Administration begins the “grab” for retirement accounts

S 3760, introduced August 5 by Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) and John Kerry (D-Mass.) would require that employers of workers currently not covered by any retirement program pay 3% of compensation into mandatory, automatic IRA accounts. That would also have the effect of increasing the assets that the US government could then seize.

This is the Republican privatization of Social Security scheme trotted out during the Bush years, retooled and now focused on the private savings of the middle class. Now, instead of forcing you to invest any portion of your Social Security retirement in the stock market, a move which would have seen one of the greatest thefts of wealth and its redistribution to the crooks and thieves on Wall Street had they been successful, the Democrat faction has taken up the cause of confiscating private investment accounts to fund the rampant overspending of government using retirement savings of those who were able to contribute to 401(k) and IRA accounts and who have savings in private pension funds. "

Nationalized retirement accounts: The coming confiscation of the retirement savings of the middle class The PPJ Gazette


Or this:
"For some time, there have been rumblings that the federal government might try to solve its budgetary problems by nationalizing (i.e., stealing) the money that millions of Americans have set aside for retirement in 401(k) plans and the like. One way they might do this is to confiscate the cash on hand in exchange for a promise to make future payments in the form of an "annuity." An involuntary annuity, in that scenario."
Power Line - Are the Feds Trying to Nationalize Your Retirement Savings?

I can just see Obama salivating over that 11 trillion sitting in the 401k accounts of the middle class.....

Wanting to nationalize retirement funds is just more proof that Obama doesn't give a rip about the middle class....he is much more interested in funding his union power and pet programs......which is MORE than enough good reason to allow the states to go bankrupt.....let the states cut and trim their overbloated state and city pension funds....which of course they created in the first place....

....and in the process cut those government unions down to size....

 

[LordBrownTrout]

After two years of bailouts, “stimulus” spending, TARP and earmarks, the country took a deep breath and is now beginning a discussion about the unsustainable trajectory of federal expenditures and the reforms necessary to right the country’s fiscal ship.

This is all good and healthy. However, Washington is not the only place with an overspending problem. We are now starting to see greater attention being paid to the dire financial straits of state governments — which pose just as grave a threat to the country.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who knows what it’s like to begin fixing a state where profligacy has carried the day for far too long, said on “60 Minutes” last Sunday, that, for states, the “day of reckoning has arrived.”

This day of reckoning has convinced policy experts, political observers and some on Capitol Hill that federal legislation allowing states to file bankruptcy might be the only way to avoid a federal bailout of the most fiscally reckless states in the union.

Opinion: Let states go bankrupt - Grover G. Norquist and Patrick Gleason - POLITICO.com

State, unlike federal, budgets, cannot run as deficits. “Virtually all states have balanced budget requirements, so they must take actions to close these deficits.” (State Budget Deficits for Fiscal Year 2004 are Huge and Growing, Revised 1/23/03) So, what to do? Simple: conjecture a better world!

a. In 2008, states reported that their public-employee pensions were underfunded by a total of $438 billion. But independent estimates say the underfunding is closer to $3 trillion. Why? The states make up estimates of return at unbelievable levels: the median investment return factored in by state pensions is 8% a year! AEI - The Market Value of Public-Sector Pension Deficits

b. “The official state estimate in underfunded pension liabilities to New Jersey’s public workers stands at $46 billion. It is one of the highest liabilities in the nation, averaging $5,200 per capita. The estimate is based on an assumed rate of return on pension assets of 8.25 percent –“ National Taxpayers Union - Overvalued and Underfunded: New Jersey?s Pension Time Bomb

c. Now, what happens if the state cannot pay the pensions? Taxpayers are legally obligated to make up any difference between what’s been promised and what can actually be paid. Pension Pulse: Pension Woes May Deepen Financial Crisis

Now, where is the government going to get all of the money necessary to cover the promises made to unions?

Have you seen this:
"Obama Administration begins the “grab” for retirement accounts

S 3760, introduced August 5 by Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) and John Kerry (D-Mass.) would require that employers of workers currently not covered by any retirement program pay 3% of compensation into mandatory, automatic IRA accounts. That would also have the effect of increasing the assets that the US government could then seize.

This is the Republican privatization of Social Security scheme trotted out during the Bush years, retooled and now focused on the private savings of the middle class. Now, instead of forcing you to invest any portion of your Social Security retirement in the stock market, a move which would have seen one of the greatest thefts of wealth and its redistribution to the crooks and thieves on Wall Street had they been successful, the Democrat faction has taken up the cause of confiscating private investment accounts to fund the rampant overspending of government using retirement savings of those who were able to contribute to 401(k) and IRA accounts and who have savings in private pension funds. "

Nationalized retirement accounts: The coming confiscation of the retirement savings of the middle class The PPJ Gazette


Or this:
"For some time, there have been rumblings that the federal government might try to solve its budgetary problems by nationalizing (i.e., stealing) the money that millions of Americans have set aside for retirement in 401(k) plans and the like. One way they might do this is to confiscate the cash on hand in exchange for a promise to make future payments in the form of an "annuity." An involuntary annuity, in that scenario."
Power Line - Are the Feds Trying to Nationalize Your Retirement Savings?

I can just see Obama salivating over that 11 trillion sitting in the 401k accounts of the middle class.....

Wanting to nationalize retirement funds is just more proof that Obama doesn't give a rip about the middle class....he is much more interested in funding his union power and pet programs......which is MORE than enough good reason to allow the states to go bankrupt.....let the states cut and trim their overbloated state and city pension funds....which of course they created in the first place....

....and in the process cut those government unions down to size....

I'll definitely be cashing out before that happens.

 

[Sallow]

Military pensions aren't jack shit, compared to what lardassed AFSCME moochers (who've never produced a thing or served their country) are knocking down.

Pretty lame attempt at hiding your foolishness behind the military, yet again....Even for you.

Pentagon spending on health care has increased from $19 billion in 2001 to a projected $50.7 billion in 2011, a 167% increase.

Military's health care costs booming - USATODAY.com

Looking for the retiree pay costs, as I recall it was around 7% of what the the total pay for active duty personnel is.

Please explain how cutting the military budget will help a state's bottom line.

You're kidding right?

States pay federal taxes.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Please explain how cutting the military budget will help a state's bottom line.

I think there's still a question pending...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wait a second...what happened to the party of personal responsibility.

Now we're letting entire states say..."uhm we can't pay. sorry" and it's ok?

wow.

Restructuring under bankruptcy is an acceptable, necessary alternative to, uhm debtors prisons?

There is no such thing as restructuring of union contracts.

They must be paid.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Best thing to do is to let the bankrupt states claim bankruptcy. They can then renegotiate the union contracts that bankrupted them. If the federal government bails them out, they will just go bankrupt later.

No can do.


Contracts must be enforced.

Federal government will look to pay the unions...

now were could they find an extra $3 trillion....

 

[PoliticalChic]

State, unlike federal, budgets, cannot run as deficits. “Virtually all states have balanced budget requirements, so they must take actions to close these deficits.” (State Budget Deficits for Fiscal Year 2004 are Huge and Growing, Revised 1/23/03) So, what to do? Simple: conjecture a better world!

a. In 2008, states reported that their public-employee pensions were underfunded by a total of $438 billion. But independent estimates say the underfunding is closer to $3 trillion. Why? The states make up estimates of return at unbelievable levels: the median investment return factored in by state pensions is 8% a year! AEI - The Market Value of Public-Sector Pension Deficits

b. “The official state estimate in underfunded pension liabilities to New Jersey’s public workers stands at $46 billion. It is one of the highest liabilities in the nation, averaging $5,200 per capita. The estimate is based on an assumed rate of return on pension assets of 8.25 percent –“ National Taxpayers Union - Overvalued and Underfunded: New Jersey?s Pension Time Bomb

c. Now, what happens if the state cannot pay the pensions? Taxpayers are legally obligated to make up any difference between what’s been promised and what can actually be paid. Pension Pulse: Pension Woes May Deepen Financial Crisis

Now, where is the government going to get all of the money necessary to cover the promises made to unions?

Have you seen this:
"Obama Administration begins the “grab” for retirement accounts

S 3760, introduced August 5 by Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) and John Kerry (D-Mass.) would require that employers of workers currently not covered by any retirement program pay 3% of compensation into mandatory, automatic IRA accounts. That would also have the effect of increasing the assets that the US government could then seize.

This is the Republican privatization of Social Security scheme trotted out during the Bush years, retooled and now focused on the private savings of the middle class. Now, instead of forcing you to invest any portion of your Social Security retirement in the stock market, a move which would have seen one of the greatest thefts of wealth and its redistribution to the crooks and thieves on Wall Street had they been successful, the Democrat faction has taken up the cause of confiscating private investment accounts to fund the rampant overspending of government using retirement savings of those who were able to contribute to 401(k) and IRA accounts and who have savings in private pension funds. "

Nationalized retirement accounts: The coming confiscation of the retirement savings of the middle class The PPJ Gazette


Or this:
"For some time, there have been rumblings that the federal government might try to solve its budgetary problems by nationalizing (i.e., stealing) the money that millions of Americans have set aside for retirement in 401(k) plans and the like. One way they might do this is to confiscate the cash on hand in exchange for a promise to make future payments in the form of an "annuity." An involuntary annuity, in that scenario."
Power Line - Are the Feds Trying to Nationalize Your Retirement Savings?

I can just see Obama salivating over that 11 trillion sitting in the 401k accounts of the middle class.....

Wanting to nationalize retirement funds is just more proof that Obama doesn't give a rip about the middle class....he is much more interested in funding his union power and pet programs......which is MORE than enough good reason to allow the states to go bankrupt.....let the states cut and trim their overbloated state and city pension funds....which of course they created in the first place....

....and in the process cut those government unions down to size....

I'll definitely be cashing out before that happens.

Hope you don't mean 'cashing out' as in 'he bought the farm'...